First to go - Monty. Next : JJ or Ayton?

[Sunsfan03]

So now we basically have mortgaged our future for a Durant in major decline.
Didn't like the trade then and definitely not now. We can't re-tool effective cause Durant/Booker/Ayton/CP3 takes up all our capspace. Even if we wanted to blow it up ala Golden State, we cant because we don't own our Draft Picks.

Future looks bleak.

Why JJ
Ayton value is at an all time low - and we gave him a max contract. We should've looked to trade him earlier last off-season or get a big man coach that can get the best of him and none of that happened. With the new CBA - we may actually be forced to trade him for peanuts.

Drafting Jalen Smith instead of Haliburton who couldve been our backup point guard.

Horrible TJ Warren trade.

Shamet Contract

Not replacing Willie Green with a competent tactical coach

Giving up so many draft picks for Durant. 2FRP,1 Pick Swap with Bridges and CJo should have been enough

Why Monty
Failure to adjust in Post Season tactically

Stubbornly plays his favorites (Shamet)

Personally JJ has to go first, the only positive trade he did was to trade for Chris Paul. Everything else has been a disaster. Giving Shamet that contract is a fire-able offense.

Monty can still lead the team emotionally (arguably the most important skill for a coach), but we need to hire a good assistant to help on the tactics esp. in the playoffs.

Edit : Monty fired. Who is next?

[RaisingArizona]

Whynotboth.gif

[SkyBill40]

Jones doesn't get credit for Paul in my opinion because Paul wanted to come here already and was given permission to orchestrate a deal. All Jones had to do was say yes and sign.

Jones has been an abject failure and his adamant refusal to draft players to restock our talent pool as opposed to signing pretty washed up veterans as he's done to date. He's not made any moves to shore things up before the playoffs and we've struggled each season because of it. His EotY award was completely undeserved.

As for Williams, well, he's never been the guy. He's too soft and is more about appeasement than tough love. He's been out coached every year in the playoffs and his rotations and substitutions are unbelievably poor. He doesn't seem to know when to call time outs to break up an opposing run and just stands there looking lost. I don't really need to mention his love affair with Shamet. Speaking of which, that falls mostly on Williams but also on Jones.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Jones doesn't get credit for Paul in my opinion because Paul wanted to come here already and was given permission to orchestrate a deal. All Jones had to do was say yes and sign.

Jones has been an abject failure and his adamant refusal to draft players to restock our talent pool as opposed to signing pretty washed up veterans as he's done to date. He's not made any moves to shore things up before the playoffs and we've struggled each season because of it. His EotY award was completely undeserved.

As for Williams, well, he's never been the guy. He's too soft and is more about appeasement than tough love. He's been out coached every year in the playoffs and his rotations and substitutions are unbelievably poor. He doesn't seem to know when to call time outs to break up an opposing run and just stands there looking lost. I don't really need to mention his love affair with Shamet. Speaking of which, that falls mostly on Williams but also on Jones.

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He's absolutely right in everything he said here! inconvenient truths will have to be corrected in order for us to get back on track. Paul and Durant chose to come here because of Booker and what they saw in him! Jones and our weak and ineffective coach and mediocre and imbecilic front office offered no draw for any stars to actually come here either! HECK!!! We even had to overpay Crowder by offering an additional year, just to get him to not resign with Miami. And we've all seen how much value Crowder truly carries these days around the league. The simple truth is that talent attracts other talent! Unless that talent just happens to be past their primes and entering the twilight of their careers as Paul was and Durant is entering now. This franchise has falsely promoted that we'd be a free agent destination once we got Paul! THAT NEVER HAPPENED!! We had to beg Javale Mcgee just to sign here with us, and he's another past his prime player that currently can't even get a premium contract anymore.

Jones hasn't really done anything in free agency to improve this team in multiple seasons. Neither he nor Williams have really done anything noteworthy to legitimize being in their positions here. Booker has basically operated as our GM! And Paul as our coach, while Williams is little more than a sideline spectator that just sits quietly throughout the game with a constipated nervous lost look on his face. Both have been fraudulently riding the coattails of / hiding behind the success of Paul and Booker as a cover for their ineptitude. The absolute best thing we can do for our franchise is to move on expeditiously from both this summer! And then move BOTH Paul and Ayton for LEGITIMATE depth pieces or cost cheaper controlled young talent (draft assets) to supplement our core and work back towards building a strong supportive cast around Booker and Durant!

[Jdiddy701]

I keep both. We haven’t seen what James Jones can do under a great owner. We haven’t seen what Monty Williams can do with a good bench. Both will figure it out.


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[lilfishi22]

Most likely Monty. JJ is moving up the higher management and won't be dealing with the personnel decisions

[lonea]

Monty is gone if the suns don't want the championship this year.

You don't let a championship window go into waste, especially with 2 guaranteed HOFers on the team and 1 potential HOFer

[Frank Lee]

My guess is Jones stays on but IshiaBro is groomed for GM… then Jones will move up to head of BBall ops. he gave himself a 3 yr extension a while back. Monty too.

Ihave no idea about Monty. May be the next few games will determine that….. or how bad Zeke wants to coach

[Bogyo]

Jones doesn't get credit for Paul in my opinion because Paul wanted to come here already and was given permission to orchestrate a deal. All Jones had to do was say yes and sign.

Jones has been an abject failure and his adamant refusal to draft players to restock our talent pool as opposed to signing pretty washed up veterans as he's done to date. He's not made any moves to shore things up before the playoffs and we've struggled each season because of it. His EotY award was completely undeserved.

As for Williams, well, he's never been the guy. He's too soft and is more about appeasement than tough love. He's been out coached every year in the playoffs and his rotations and substitutions are unbelievably poor. He doesn't seem to know when to call time outs to break up an opposing run and just stands there looking lost. I don't really need to mention his love affair with Shamet. Speaking of which, that falls mostly on Williams but also on Jones.

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Also - we overpaid in the CP deal as well, giving up a pick... Guy basically only wanted to play here, and we were the only viable trade option for him at that time (cap space, outgoing pieces, win now, etc...), plus OKC already got picks for him the prior year to take him off of the Rockets hands. So there was no need to add anything besides matching salary. A pick here, another there - these add up in 4-5 years. They just did now.

The rest is fully agreed, and I've been on this train for at least a year now - just didn't really voice it as I was in such small minority and did not want to pick fights. Oh well

[WeekapaugGroove]

Probably neither this summer.

With Monty it really is as simple as if Booker and KD want him here next year he'll be here. Booker has assended to a place where his opinion is the most important opinion in the organization.

Jones I want to see work under someone not named Sarver before really judging him. Like I think it was a mistake to not use the MLE this past summer on a G, but I also highly suspect Sarver wasn't allowing signings for over the minimum. It's not like any GM won't spend every dollar they can.


I think there are legit complaints about both guys but I also tend to be a big picture judge. From a big picture perspective of where this franchise was before each took over to where it is now it's been a huge success.

One aspect I find a little confusing is peeps who think both Monty and JJ have done a bad job. Because if you think Monty is the reason they haven't won a chip then that's pretty high praise for JJs rosters. On the flip side if you Jones has done a **** job then I guess Monty has been handcuffed with the roster. It can't logically be both.

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[Slim Charless]

Probably neither this summer.

With Monty it really is as simple as if Booker and KD want him here next year he'll be here. Booker has assended to a place where his opinion is the most important opinion in the organization.

Jones I want to see work under someone not named Sarver before really judging him. Like I think it was a mistake to not use the MLE this past summer on a G, but I also highly suspect Sarver wasn't allowing signings for over the minimum. It's not like any GM won't spend every dollar they can.


I think there are legit complaints about both guys but I also tend to be a big picture judge. From a big picture perspective of where this franchise was before each took over to where it is now it's been a huge success.

One aspect I find a little confusing is peeps who think both Monty and JJ have done a bad job. Because if you think Monty is the reason they haven't won a chip then that's pretty high praise for JJs rosters. On the flip side if you Jones has done a **** job then I guess Monty has been handcuffed with the roster. It can't logically be both.

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For the record I'm on the fire Monty only bandwagon. I've always been of mind that JJ was handcuffed by Sarver (as all Suns fans have been)....he couldn't hire a proper scouting crew and always had to make every trade with mind of tax implications. I'm fine with him getting another year.

Moronty OTOH....well look what happened when he decided to play our bench guys like Warren and to a lesser degree Ross. We won. A lot of credit to Monty's future son in law finally earning his paycheck but we should've been playing these guys weeks ago. Monty is dumb. That is that. Hopefully KD/Booker's greatness can overcome that and get us to a title. I remain doubtful.

[sunsfan1o1]

Probably neither this summer.

With Monty it really is as simple as if Booker and KD want him here next year he'll be here. Booker has assended to a place where his opinion is the most important opinion in the organization.

Jones I want to see work under someone not named Sarver before really judging him. Like I think it was a mistake to not use the MLE this past summer on a G, but I also highly suspect Sarver wasn't allowing signings for over the minimum. It's not like any GM won't spend every dollar they can.


I think there are legit complaints about both guys but I also tend to be a big picture judge. From a big picture perspective of where this franchise was before each took over to where it is now it's been a huge success.

One aspect I find a little confusing is peeps who think both Monty and JJ have done a bad job. Because if you think Monty is the reason they haven't won a chip then that's pretty high praise for JJs rosters. On the flip side if you Jones has done a **** job then I guess Monty has been handcuffed with the roster. It can't logically be both.

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This is nonsense. Of course it can be both.

GM acquires low level talent.
Coach doesn’t know how to draw up plays, time management or player management/development.

Both Jones and Monty are just not as good as advertised.

Maybe as a coach run some plays instead of iso Booker/KD.

How about some pick and rolls with DA?
For example see how Malone uses Murray and Jokic in the PnR.

How about some pick and roll/fade between KD and Booker?
For example: watch how a real coach like Doc Rivers uses Harden and Embiid. Pick and rolls they double James he gets it to Embiid and it’s a bucket.

How about double/triple screens to free KD and Booker from double teams?
For example see how Kerr helps get Steph open.

How about putting Jokic on a defensive island by making him switch on a perimeter player?

How about full court press on guys like Bruce Brown who brings up the ball but has no handles?

How about doubling Murray?

How about hedging Murray on all those pick n rolls with Jokic?

Coach is just there as a mouthpiece. He literally does nothing but talk and motivate.

As for the GM:

How about signing ball handlers?

How about signing experience instead of bargain?

How about signing a 3D player?

How about scouting and drafting rookies?

How about signing a backup 4?

How about not extending a journeyman like Shamet to an extension prior to playing a single game?

So to disprove your theory you can absolutely have a terrible GM and terrible coach.

Logically speaking, if you have a terrible GM, chances are that GM will hire a terrible coach or not be able to identify a great coach from a bad one.

[Sunsfan03]

Changed my mind. Fire both of them!

Absolute embarrassment.

[Phystic]

Got your answer: Monty.

[SkyBill40]

This was a coin flip anyway. Bottom line is they both need to go.

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[Cutter]

Monty has been fired according to Foxnews.

[lonea]

YES !

[kennydorglas]

GOD IS GOOD

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not that Monty didn't have faults but this could definitely be a careful what you wish for situation. We'll see if the grass is greener.

Hope they hire someone good. Hope Monty finds a good gig, he did a lot for this franchise and I'll remember him fondly.

Anyway back to Tears of the kingdom, game is sick and a perfect way to pretend basketball doesn't exist for a bit.



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[lonea]

Not that Monty didn't have faults but this could definitely be a careful what you wish for situation. We'll see if the grass is greener.
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This isn't a "grass is greener" situation.

The last three years were all championship contention year and he blew it. Especially last year.