Does Bron have the most "PORT"

[ShaqAttac]

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posted this on gb, but ig i should see what pc ppl think too.

i see lotta args bout "port". doesnt this prove bron super portable?

[EmpireFalls]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

[MisterHibachi]

He's won championships in some of the most diverse circumstances among players he's compared to. 4 different iterations (arguably 5 if you count the first Cavs stint) of championship caliber teams have been built around LeBron. Not sure how you can get any more portable than that.

[ShaqAttac]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

only bron got ppl picking his 13th best szn to try n make sum point bout his career as a whoole. why would 11 bron losing a final prove sumthn bout all the other brons. didnt he lose his hops n have no post-game

[Ainosterhaspie]

Portability people get the concept fundamentally wrong. Portability is about what holes you can fill on your team. Does your team need a defensive anchor, a playmaker, a scorer, a screener, a rebounder, a shutdown perimeter defender? The better a player fills those roles, the more portable he is.

The portability argument is a substitute for the concept of elite shooter. Elite shooting is always useful so an elite shooter is maximally portable. No, not really. If a team has excellent scoring but no defense, they don't need another shooter, they need a defender.

Portability should be answering the question "how is this player going to function not just on a well balanced roster but also on one that is fundamentally flawed". A player that can make a flawed roster a contender is the one who is portable, not the player who thrives with a balanced roster that lets him play exclusively to his strength.

[Cavsfansince84]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

Its fair to criticize him for his play in the 2011 finals and even a few series before that but players improve over time. MJ improved, Magic improved, Bird went from a near average league efficiency scorer to a way above average volume scorer. So just keep that in mind.

[Cavsfansince84]

Portability people get the concept fundamentally wrong. Portability is about what holes you can fill on your team. Does your team need a defensive anchor, a playmaker, a scorer, a screener, a rebounder, a shutdown perimeter defender? The better a player fills those roles, the more portable he is.

The portability argument is a substitute for the concept of elite shooter. Elite shooting is always useful so an elite shooter is maximally portable. No, not really. If a team has excellent scoring but no defense, they don't need another shooter, they need a defender.

Portability should be answering the question "how is this player going to function not just on a well balanced roster but also on one that is fundamentally flawed". A player that can make a flawed roster a contender is the one who is portable, not the player who thrives with a balanced roster that lets him play exclusively to his strength.

I agree and I think Steph's specific skill set sort of warped how people were trying to use the word in the last 5-6 years. It's similar to me where one of the main criteria I like to use when looking at players is how many if any actual weaknesses do they have. If players have relatively similar resumes but one guy has a definite weakness and the other doesn't then I am will generally rank the player with the weakness below the other guy because weaknesses can very easily be what can cost a team a series if its exploited. A player without a major weakness blends better on a team imo.

[trex_8063]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

Maybe. Hard to say this is the reason he didn't synergize the way he's usually done, or how much was uncertainty about his role should be ('cause Wade was awfully good at that stage, too), or how much was that he simply flubbed the late stages of the playoffs?

I think at this stage he's recognized that he CAN'T play the way he always has [at least not with the same success]: he's not the same package that he was 5-10 [or 12, in case of 2011] years ago, for all the reasons mentioned in the OP's tweet.
That degree of.....let's call in obviousness (that he needed to adapt) wasn't present in '11. He was also a fair bit younger then. Although he was a veteran of the league, he was still only 26 at the time of the '11 NBA Finals, and perhaps hadn't "figured everything out" quite yet. The greater part of his career value was yet to come......which is fairly unusual.

For most players the bulk of "value" they're going to accrue will have occurred by the end of season 8. Not the case for LeBron; probably only a mere handful or two of other guys we could say that for.
Which I only state to suggest: even if you're right about '11, it doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of his career [which again: is the portion carrying the most value].

[OhayoKD]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

Maybe. Hard to say this is the reason he didn't synergize the way he's usually done, or how much was uncertainty about his role should be ('cause Wade was awfully good at that stage, too), or how much was that he simply flubbed the late stages of the playoffs?

I think at this stage he's recognized that he CAN'T play the way he always has [at least not with the same success]: he's not the same package that he was 5-10 [or 12, in case of 2011] years ago, for all the reasons mentioned in the OP's tweet.
That degree of.....let's call in obviousness (that he needed to adapt) wasn't present in '11. He was also a fair bit younger then. Although he was a veteran of the league, he was still only 26 at the time of the '11 NBA Finals, and perhaps hadn't "figured everything out" quite yet. The greater part of his career value was yet to come......which is fairly unusual.

For most players the bulk of "value" they're going to accrue will have occurred by the end of season 8. Not the case for LeBron; probably only a mere handful or two of other guys we could say that for.
Which I only state to suggest: even if you're right about '11, it doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of his career [which again: is the portion carrying the most value].

for whatever ever reason, people also ignore 2011 lebron had 20 pounds on 2009-2010 and was significantly less atheltic without a post-game to compensate. Very weird to try and use 2011 as some indicator for lebron's prime

[Joao Saraiva]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

Oh come on. Here we go again. It's a black mark on his career yes, but the guy won as the main rim protector on the Heat and playing PF, mainly as a post threat on offense. Then won as a perimeter player in Cleveland with a PG that lacks playmaking skills and is mainly a scorer. Won with the Lakers playing the PG spot and leading the league in assists...

We saw him as a lock down perimeter defender with the Heat in 11 prior to the finals. Rim protector the years after. A help defender on some of the worse offensive guys in Cle 16 and 09...

I mean, what other portability do you want? Dude has literally filled all types of roles.

[HeartBreakKid]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

Oh come on. Here we go again. It's a black mark on his career yes, but the guy won as the main rim protector on the Heat and playing PF, mainly as a post threat on offense. Then won as a perimeter player in Cleveland with a PG that lacks playmaking skills and is mainly a scorer. Won with the Lakers playing the PG spot and leading the league in assists...

We saw him as a lock down perimeter defender with the Heat in 11 prior to the finals. Rim protector the years after. A help defender on some of the worse offensive guys in Cle 16 and 09...

I mean, what other portability do you want? Dude has literally filled all types of roles.

Lebron needs to spot up for corner 3s. That's the true mark of portability.

[parsnips33]

We may be able to use the word portability again without Bron fans getting offended

[Colbinii]

We may be able to use the word portability again without Bron fans getting offended

How do you define the term portability?

[OhayoKD]

He isn’t the MOST portable, if he was they would’ve won the 2011 finals with ease.

That being said the portability concerns have always been highly overblown and he’s always had this off ball ability in his locker. It’s just that LeBron with the ball in his hands is a better option than almost any offensive scheme in NBA history.

Oh come on. Here we go again. It's a black mark on his career yes, but the guy won as the main rim protector on the Heat and playing PF, mainly as a post threat on offense. Then won as a perimeter player in Cleveland with a PG that lacks playmaking skills and is mainly a scorer. Won with the Lakers playing the PG spot and leading the league in assists...

We saw him as a lock down perimeter defender with the Heat in 11 prior to the finals. Rim protector the years after. A help defender on some of the worse offensive guys in Cle 16 and 09...

I mean, what other portability do you want? Dude has literally filled all types of roles.

Lebron has beaten three teams with a higher PSRS than all but two of the opponents "ceiling raisers" jordan and steph have ever vanquished combined(2017 Cavs, 2016 Thunder). Those 3 wins came with less help and less healthy help(2016 is an exception for the latter).

The idea that Lebron is not "portable" is just a bad excuse to ignore what's actually happened. Hikari sums it up rather well:

What makes any theory or concept useful is explanatory adequacy. In other words, does this theory help us gain a better understanding of some phenomenon by explaining it? Ben Taylor's ideas of scalability and portability have explanatory adequacy because they help us explain why some players are more impactful in various contexts. And we can sometimes see this in the data.

However, in any fact-based discussion, empirical evidence trumps all. And when the theory and empirical evidence conflict, the empirical evidence takes precedence. The problem Ben Taylor has when it comes to LeBron James is that Ben has a predetermined set of skills that he thinks makes a player more scalable or portable. He doesn't think LeBron excels at those skills, therefore, he concludes that LeBron has lower scalability and portability than other players who excel at those skills.

Except we have a decade of empirical evidence suggesting that LeBron's portability and scalability are apparently not necessarily contingent upon the predetermined skills that Ben Taylor has identified. But instead of changing his theory to fit the evidence, Taylor simply ignores the evidence in favor of his theory. So, he concludes that LeBron is less scalable or portable than other players.

But the evidence is on the side of LeBron being scalable and portable. Therefore, either LeBron has some skills that Taylor is unable to identify that make LeBron more portable and scalable than Taylor is assuming or Taylor's theory of scalability and portability is wrong. I'm pretty sure it's the former.

Now, what's interesting is that I don't think I've ever heard Ben Taylor talk about IQ being a scalable or portable skill. And LeBron has tons of that.

Just to give an example, not all on-ball creators are created equally. In Miami, from 2012-2014 LeBron was an on-ball creator as a passing hub out of the mid-post. That allowed him to optimize Miami's offense.

In Cleveland, from 2015-2018 LeBron was an on-ball creator but operated from the perimeter which allowed him to manufacture skip passes and attack the paint from the perimeter.

In LA in 2020 LeBron was an on-ball creator but operated as a "do-everything" point guard.

We have 3 completely different contexts where LeBron is an on-ball creator but in each context, LeBron has uniquely modified his game to maximize his effectiveness and the team around him.

But apparently Ben Taylor sees this and just concludes that LeBron is taking up on-ball possessions.

When conclusions and theories and extrapolations consistently disagree with what can be observed, those conclusions, theories, and extrapolations should be adjusted accordingly.

Lebron is near 40 and has been able to operate largely off-ball to help his team win on what is typically a season-ending injury. He has ramped up his defense to make up for his limited offense and is cutting and spacing the floor to bolster an offense that is sometimes run by dlo and austin reeves. The Lakers are currently up 2-1 on the reigning champs 2 wins away from finishing off one of the sport's greatest dynasties.

If that isn't "ceiling raising", then I'm not sure what is.

[EmpireFalls]

There is a difference between being portable and versatile and being the MOST PORTABLE EVER

[parsnips33]

We may be able to use the word portability again without Bron fans getting offended

How do you define the term portability?

Something like "(real or hypothetical) resiliency of impact across different team contexts". What it boils down to effectively is something like versatility on offense, although I do think defensive portability makes sense to me

[An Unbiased Fan]

No, and Lebron hasn't reinvented his game at all. Lakers are winning when AD shows up, it's that simple. Where was this port when LA had Ingram, Lonzo, Kuz? People were saying LA should shut down Lebron a month ago

[HeartBreakKid]

No, and Lebron hasn't reinvented his game at all. Lakers are winning when AD shows up, it's that simple. Where was this port when LA had Ingram, Lonzo, Kuz? People were saying LA should shut down Lebron a month ago

You mean when the team was bad? That doesn't have much to do with portability. Didn't James get injured in 2019 as well?

[OhayoKD]

No, and Lebron hasn't reinvented his game at all. Lakers are winning when AD shows up, it's that simple. Where was this port when LA had Ingram, Lonzo, Kuz? People were saying LA should shut down Lebron a month ago

You mean when the team was bad? That doesn't have much to do with portability. Didn't James get injured in 2019 as well?

They were actually doing pretty well prior to that injury. After a dreadful start they were on pace for 50-wins by record(srs was less impressive fwiw) and Lebron's impact metrics only trailed Giannis. The team stuff probably undersells the Lakers as they started slow adjusting to each other.

Then lonzo, bi, and kuzma all got serious injuries and Lebron came back hobbled. But before they were healthy they were on track for a solid season alongside mvp-worthy impact

Lebron's also looked like one of the most valuable players in the league pre and post-trade(actually looked valuable than steph if you take the various measures of "impact" at face value) in 2023 before an injury that is usually season-ending.

Neither year really hurts Lebron's port case(probably helps actually) unless we're attributing all these injuries to "fit"

[MisterHibachi]

No, and Lebron hasn't reinvented his game at all.

I hope you learn more about the sport that you comment on in this forum so you can actually see what's happening on the court.