Tracy McGrady 03' vs Shai Gilgeous Alexander 23'

[durantbird]

Tracy 03' is very highly regarded in this forum. But is he actually better than Shai? Both ok/good defenders overall, both 32 ppg scorers, only that Tracy have done it in 56% TS and Shai in 63% TS.

[SpreeS]

Tracy 03' is very highly regarded in this forum. But is he actually better than Shai? Both ok/good defenders overall, both 32 ppg scorers, only that Tracy have done it in 56% TS and Shai in 63% TS.

2003 McGrady eFG+ 107 TS+ 109 TS Add +192.0
2023 SGA eFG+ 97 TS+ 108 TS Add +151.6

Wow this is totally different view

[AdagioPace]

32 ppg (with 56 TS%) in the swampy defensive environment of 2003 was quite an achievement.

[rk2023]

30+/5/5 is a vastly different ball-park 20 years ago as opposed to now. From a standpoint of production, as well as impact on team results, I would take McGrady here - even as one who’s higher than most and a fan of Shai (eg. I think he is clearly a top 15 player today).

One hot take I have is that McGrady was the best offensive player in the league in 2003.

[LukaTheGOAT]

McGrady

Tracy McGrady in ‘03 had a 9.9 box-creation, so he really was a mega-playmaker for his era.

Also in 03, McGrady put up

▫️33.4 Inflation Adjusted pts/75
▫️5.4 ast/75
▫️6.4 reb/75
▫️ 1.7 stl/75
▫️+4.5 rTS%
▫️+13 Net Swing

McGrady's 03 season is akin to Kobe's 06 season in many ways, in terms of offensive load, impact and how they floor-raised underwhelming rosters. They also tend to rate out similarly well in impact metrics offensively.

While it is not a very efficient shot, McGrady was a terrifc long-midrange shot-maker, and that catapults my belief in his resiliency in the PS. McGrady shot 43.1% on long 2’s. Heck, T-Mac’s shot 38.6% from 3 on 6 attempts a game, so he was a special 3-point shooter for his era as well.

With McGrady on the Magic had a 109.3 ORTG

With McGrady off the Magic had a 91.8 ORTG

That is one of the biggest shifts in offensive rating you will ever see without a single player, a literal 17.5 difference in ORTG.

[rand]

30+/5/5 is a vastly different ball-park 20 years ago as opposed to now. From a standpoint of production, as well as impact on team results, I would take McGrady here - even as one who’s higher than most and a fan of Shai (eg. I think he is clearly a top 15 player today).

One hot take I have is that McGrady was the best offensive player in the league in 2003.

I think Shaq was still #1 offensively but that year I'd put TMac #2

[MiamiBulls]

30+/5/5 is a vastly different ball-park 20 years ago as opposed to now. From a standpoint of production, as well as impact on team results, I would take McGrady here - even as one who’s higher than most and a fan of Shai (eg. I think he is clearly a top 15 player today).

One hot take I have is that McGrady was the best offensive player in the league in 2003.

I think Shaq was still #1 offensively but that year I'd put TMac #2

McGrady was probably the best Offensive player in 2003.

The Lakers still had the 8th Worst Offense in the 2003 Season w/Shaq on the floor & Kobe off the floor.

[Cavsfansince84]

30+/5/5 is a vastly different ball-park 20 years ago as opposed to now. From a standpoint of production, as well as impact on team results, I would take McGrady here - even as one who’s higher than most and a fan of Shai (eg. I think he is clearly a top 15 player today).

One hot take I have is that McGrady was the best offensive player in the league in 2003.

I think that's closer to a popular take(on here at least) than a hot one. It's widely seen as one of the best offensive seasons of all time I would say.

[rk2023]

30+/5/5 is a vastly different ball-park 20 years ago as opposed to now. From a standpoint of production, as well as impact on team results, I would take McGrady here - even as one who’s higher than most and a fan of Shai (eg. I think he is clearly a top 15 player today).

One hot take I have is that McGrady was the best offensive player in the league in 2003.

I think that's closer to a popular take(on here at least) than a hot one. It's widely seen as one of the best offensive seasons of all time I would say.

Agreed. I haven’t seen too many McGrady specific threads on here, and wasn’t too aware of how he’s regarded. In other circles of basketball discussion (that are still above casual levels), it strikes as somewhat a hot take. I see cases for Shaq & Kobe - but I would go with McGrady.

[Cavsfansince84]

Agreed. I haven’t seen too many McGrady specific threads on here, and wasn’t too aware of how he’s regarded. In other circles of basketball discussion (that are still above casual levels), it strikes as somewhat a hot take. I see cases for Shaq & Kobe - but I would go with McGrady.

I think that perception is almost entirely due to how he dropped off after that and Kobe had the career he did. Even at the time McGrady was regarded as the most talented guy in the league imo. I'd say he was considered to be the next evolution of the wing in the nba. Then he got injured of course and LeBron sort of took his place.

[homecourtloss]

32 ppg (with 56 TS%) in the swampy defensive environment of 2003 was quite an achievement.

Swampy—I like that adjective to describe what McGrady was working in.

Tracy 03' is very highly regarded in this forum. But is he actually better than Shai? Both ok/good defenders overall, both 32 ppg scorers, only that Tracy have done it in 56% TS and Shai in 63% TS.

2003 McGrady eFG+ 107 TS+ 109 TS Add +192.0
2023 SGA eFG+ 97 TS+ 108 TS Add +151.6

Wow this is totally different view

Pretty massive difference in eFG+ as well as FG Added, i.e., +112 for TMAc, -40 for SGA. SGA was drawing fouls while McGrady was actually making shots, often contested, often off the dribble, in “swampy” conditions.

McGrady

Tracy McGrady in ‘03 had a 9.9 box-creation, so he really was a mega-playmaker for his era.

Also in 03, McGrady put up

▫️33.4 Inflation Adjusted pts/75
▫️5.4 ast/75
▫️6.4 reb/75
▫️ 1.7 stl/75
▫️+4.5 rTS%
▫️+13 Net Swing

McGrady's 03 season is akin to Kobe's 06 season in many ways, in terms of offensive load, impact and how they floor-raised underwhelming rosters. They also tend to rate out similarly well in impact metrics offensively.

While it is not a very efficient shot, McGrady was a terrifc long-midrange shot-maker, and that catapults my belief in his resiliency in the PS. McGrady shot 43.1% on long 2’s. Heck, T-Mac’s shot 38.6% from 3 on 6 attempts a game, so he was a special 3-point shooter for his era as well.

With McGrady on the Magic had a 109.3 ORTG

With McGrady off the Magic had a 91.8 ORTG

That is one of the biggest shifts in offensive rating you will ever see without a single player, a literal 17.5 difference in ORTG.

Crazy impact working with almost nothing, making so many tough shots to keep that team afloat

[MiamiBulls]

Agreed. I haven’t seen too many McGrady specific threads on here, and wasn’t too aware of how he’s regarded. In other circles of basketball discussion (that are still above casual levels), it strikes as somewhat a hot take. I see cases for Shaq & Kobe - but I would go with McGrady.

I think that perception is almost entirely due to how he dropped off after that and Kobe had the career he did. Even at the time McGrady was regarded as the most talented guy in the league imo. I'd say he was considered to be the next evolution of the wing in the nba. Then he got injured of course and LeBron sort of took his place.

That perception is mainly due to the fact that his 2003 Season is essentially a statistical fluke. McGrady's TS% was below the league average 11 out of the 15 years he was in the NBA. Outside of 2003, his relative TS% was never above 1.2% or a TS+ above 102. He wasn't efficient scoring the basketball playing next to Vince Carter nor Yao Ming.

[Cavsfansince84]

That perception is mainly due to the fact that his 2003 Season is essentially a statistical fluke. McGrady's TS% was below the league average 11 out of the 15 years he was in the NBA. Outside of 2003, his relative TS% was never above 1.2% or a TS+ above 102. He wasn't efficient scoring the basketball playing next to Vince Carter nor Yao Ming.

a. Saying something is a fluke over a full season sample doesn't change what he actually did that year. It's not like a one or two series playoff sample where it can be easily discarded.
b. Injuries are a big part of that. So like I said, the 03 season tends to get downgraded in hindsight because of how his career went compared to Kobe's. At the time though, people thought TMac was about to have 6-7 years in a row averaging 30ppg and probably win a couple mvps before he was done.

[rk2023]

That is one of the biggest shifts in offensive rating you will ever see without a single player, a literal 17.5 difference in ORTG.

Crazy impact working with almost nothing, making so many tough shots to keep that team afloat

One thing I randomly thought of and am curious towards is the degree to which O-RAPM under-sells such a floor-raising effort. According to Doc's RAPM Chronological Sheet (up to 2012), McGrady's 2003 campaign only comes out as a 2.57 - good for 29th in the league and below his O-RAPM values from 2004 through 2008.

In comparison to some of the prominent offensive forces from the 2000s highest graded campaigns:

Shaq: 8.59, 7.52, 7.68, 7.88,
LeBron: 9.95, 9.19, 8.76, 7.03
Wade: 10.65, 7.89, 7.57, 7.35
Nash: 10.22, 9.82, 8.23, 8.83, 8.29
Kobe: 7.92, 7.76, 7.7, 7.56
Dirk: 7.76, 7.49, 7.03