Raptors Starting Lineup - Gary vs Dennis

[Carlg]

I’ve been thinking about the starting lineup debate between Gary and Dennis.

It seems many fall on the side of Gary with the logic that we need more shooting in the starting lineup and also the history of Gary being subpar as a reserve.

However, here is why I think it’s better to go with Dennis starting and why it seems Darko is fading that way:

1) No weak link in the defence in the starting 5. This is more important for the post season but why not start preparing for it now? Gary has been hunted in the past in this regard and it’s nice to have a playoff ready starting 5 that can’t get exploited in the same way.

2) Darko is stressing a pass happy system. Out of our top players Gary is easily the worst at this and Dennis seems to be strong in this. When trying to implement a new system with your most important players why not put them in the best place to succeed?

3) Gary is a shoot first player. But in our starting lineup do we really want our fifth starter having this mentality? Taking shots away from our best players? Dennis seems to be a pass first PG who knows what his role is. If Scottie is to emerge, and if we are to see what OG can be they need more touches which will happen more with a fifth starter looking to set up rather than to get his.

4) for Gary’s development he needs to find a way to be effective off the bench. If he can only score when surrounded by the best players doesn’t that lower his value vs the usual gunner type? Gunner type is supposed to be a bucket when your starters are out, not when they are all in. If he can’t find that then his value is way lower than maybe we all have pegged him at.

Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter, what are yours?

[GP2]

Might want to turn this into a poll.

Without looking into it too much, my head says you go with Dennis. He'd be a great primary or secondary handler depending on how you want to use Scottie. But it would be nice for Scottie (and Pascal) to have a release valve in Dennis.

Gary has yet to really win me over, but he would be best utilized as a scorer off the bench. Our guard depth is quite weak so maybe you give him a few touches to expand his non-existent facilitating game.

[Johnny Bball]

Gary. He's just better. And then the ball has to be in Barnes hands more.

[Basketball_Jones]

I think Dennis coming from the Lakers now understands how to defer and be lower in the pecking order. I think he'll be content to let Siakam and Scottie run the show, so I can see him starting and not causing problems. Spacing is an issue but that really will only be our downfall come playoff time. Regular season wise we got through it fine last year just bull dozing paint points and transition off of turnovers with the acquisition of Yak. Teams know exactly where they are going but they still had a hard time stopping it. But overall, I don't think we should be too concerned about who starts between Dennis or Gary.

[PhilBlackson]

Personally I prefer Gary in the starting lineup for extra space/shooting & Schroeder to help get something out of the bench since we clearly don’t have a suitable backup. I believe Scottie & Pascal can get the team into the offence well enough and the whole point is to develop Scottie as one so let’s see how it plays out.

[Wargreymon]

Just start Gary if it means no Nowell/Flynn minutes at backup PG. Dennis can be the commander of the 2nd unit.
Starters:
Yak/Siakam/OG/Trent/Barnes

Bench:
Boucher/Porter/McDaniels/Dick/Schroeder

[Tor_Raps]

Just start Gary if it means no Nowell/Flynn minutes at backup PG. Dennis can be the commander of the 2nd unit.
Starters:
Yak/Siakam/OG/Trent/Barnes

Bench:
Boucher/Porter/McDaniels/Dick/Schroeder

This is my exact reasoning to. Only thing is that I think Dick will start the season in the G League so Precious will take his spot. Koloko will probably head there once he gets healthy to get some reps too.

Bench will be :
Precious/Boucher/Porter/Mcdaniels/Schroder

[Zeno]

Dennis doesn’t provide the shooting needed and Gary is a horrible passer. Add to it the state of the backup point guard situation and I land on option 3. Start Otto as a token starter. I like the idea of Dennis, Gary, Gradey,McDaniels, Boucher, Precious off the bench. If we had a decent backup point guard, then I would say start Dennis but watching us try to get into offence with a backcourt of Flynn and Gary has changed my mind.

[Reeko]

The defense argument isn't a valid one. Dennis would get hunted if he was our starting PG, he's definitely smaller than Gary and there's nothing, as far as I've seen, to support the idea that he's better defensively than Gary.

As for the passing, we've already got 3 good to great passers in Pascal, Jak and Scottie, and I'd rather have two good shooters out there with them.

[Badonkadonk]

I'll still contend that Gary offers better balance in the starting lineup and Dennis is a perfect change-of-pace PG that will do very well against 2nd units. Sit Gary and Pascal first imo, bring on Dick or OPJ with Dennis to maintain some shooting, then stagger Pascal for Scottie so you have that play making from the 3/4 overlapping too.

[VanWest82]

I like Schroder's ball handling and play making with the starting group. The spacing is beyond awful but Pascal and Scottie aren't strong enough on the ball to be full time ball handlers.

In the playoffs, we'd get destroyed doing this. In the regular season, we're a weird team that doesn't look like everyone else that hounds you and turns you over, scores in transition, and has enough guys with Dennis who can dribble and create shots in the HC.

[C_Money]

3) Gary is a shoot first player. But in our starting lineup do we really want our fifth starter having this mentality? Taking shots away from our best players? Dennis seems to be a pass first PG who knows what his role is. If Scottie is to emerge, and if we are to see what OG can be they need more touches which will happen more with a fifth starter looking to set up rather than to get his.

Gary is likely our 2nd best scorer on this team. Who is he taking shots away from? People worse than him?

[LoganAndWade]

Gary. He's just better. And then the ball has to be in Barnes hands more.

This is my thoughts exactly ! We WANT to develop Scottie into a 6’9 PG! We aren’t winning a Ship this year .. give Scottie the ball.. let him learn ! I don’t Understand how starting Dennis , helps us at all.. if anything I think it stunts Scottie’s growth as a ball handler, passer, floor general !

[Backcountry]

Gary. He and OG are the only reliable threats from deep in the lineup of Scottie-Pascal-OG-GTJ-Poeltl, and are needed to help create space for the others. Scottie/Pascal can run point. Darko stated his goal was to get plenty of easy shots (i.e. into the paint) and the rest of the lineup are good at that, but we need Gary's shooting (and OG to a lesser extent) to help get those shots, and as an outlet when the clock is running down.

Second unit of Dennis-Gradey-Boucher-Whoever (Achiuwa, McDaniels, OPG etc.) would then get the calming influence at point of Dennis, which they need. He's the only decent backup PG we have right now.

[HumbleRen]

GTJ should start but if Scottie and Siakam can’t be lead ball handlers then Dennis.

[OAKLEY_2]

I like Dennis' leadership at the point as starter end of. Reminds me a bit of Lowry. Need to just get Paskal to 35 per cent from 3 and Dennis in the starting 5 is fine. Then let Scottie also lead a chunk of time with the second unit with Gary, McDaniels, Boucher, Precious and Dick. Let Porter jr. bob in and out replacing Dick 2nd unit & Scottie first unit.

Scottie could be first off subbed by Porter jr. and return to lead the bench with Gary McDaniels Dick etc.

No need for Flynn or Dowtin.

[Duffman100]

I really liked Gary with the bench for point number 3. He was the offense.

[OAKLEY_2]

Gary. He and OG are the only reliable threats from deep in the lineup of Scottie-Pascal-OG-GTJ-Poeltl, and are needed to help create space for the others. Scottie/Pascal can run point. Darko stated his goal was to get plenty of easy shots (i.e. into the paint) and the rest of the lineup are good at that, but we need Gary's shooting (and OG to a lesser extent) to help get those shots, and as an outlet when the clock is running down.

Second unit of Dennis-Gradey-Boucher-Whoever (Achiuwa, McDaniels, OPG etc.) would then get the calming influence at point of Dennis, which they need. He's the only decent backup PG we have right now.

I think we will discover Dick will be a third reliable and McDaniels as well. There is going to be a lot of subbing. Boucher might return as odd form reliable.

[Backcountry]

Gary. He and OG are the only reliable threats from deep in the lineup of Scottie-Pascal-OG-GTJ-Poeltl, and are needed to help create space for the others. Scottie/Pascal can run point. Darko stated his goal was to get plenty of easy shots (i.e. into the paint) and the rest of the lineup are good at that, but we need Gary's shooting (and OG to a lesser extent) to help get those shots, and as an outlet when the clock is running down.

Second unit of Dennis-Gradey-Boucher-Whoever (Achiuwa, McDaniels, OPG etc.) would then get the calming influence at point of Dennis, which they need. He's the only decent backup PG we have right now.

I think we will discover Dick will be a third reliable and McDaniels as well. There is going to be a lot of subbing. Boucher might return as odd form reliable.

I think Boucher is going to thrive in Darko's system. His energy and cutting/slashing ability fits right in, plus he is enough of a shooting threat to create space. I also think Thad will be rejuvenated in this system, as he has pretty good court vision and can make quick decisions, something that was underutilized in Nurse's system.

But they still need that PG to move the ball up quickly. I'm hopeful that we will have a return of the high-energy, run-them-into-the-ground bench unit of days of yore. It has a lot of potential with this group run by Dennis.

[pharring]

I try to remember that whoever "starts" is not as important as who "finishes" but that truism never seems to stick (or matter much at contract time).

For now I support GTJ coming off the bench, though that does mean we are not starting the Best Five. I support it because I believe the team needs a change of pace/style/skill guy coming off the bench, especially when there is a sluggish start. GTJ has the skills to be instant offence and until Grady matures, I am not sure there is another player like that on our team. If Dennis was more dangerous as a shooter I would support him in the role, but I think Dennis is better suited to keeping the starters tied to the Darko game plan, with GTJ as a "release valve" if everyone seems to start cold.

What is more, I think GTJ is such a good pro that he will accept a 6-Man role.... even if it is just to start.

But the last portion of any 4th quarter? I want GTJ on the floor - probably as much as anyone else on the roster.