How many games do the 2009 Lakers win without Kobe?

[One_and_Done]

Take away Kobe, and the Lakers are still left with an impressive team. Pau, Bynum, Odom, Ariza and Fisher starting, with solid bench guys like Radmanovic, Farmar, L.Walton, Sasha off the bench. Pau had already proven he could lead a pretty meh Memphis team to 50-ish wins from 04-06, how does he do with these guys in 09?

[Primedeion]

The 04-06 Grizzlies went 20-12 without Pau. That supporting cast isn't sniffing that. They don't even make the postseason without Bryant.

[One_and_Done]

The 04-06 Grizzlies went 20-12 without Pau. That supporting cast isn't sniffing that. They don't even make the postseason without Bryant.

I think that's a bit misleading because almost all the games missed were in 05, and the support cast Pau had changed quite a bit over those 3 years. It looks more like an unsustainable run of a team playing over their head. When Pau was struggling with injuries in 07 the team didn't perform similarly, instead they were a lotto team.

[Trey24]

Less than 35

[MambaVenom24]

solid bench guys like Radmanovic, Farmar, L.Walton, Sasha off the bench

the entire premise of the post is laughable, but this part right here, this one above ... you should do stand-up comedy man

[Goomba3666]

I remember arguing with a Bron fan years ago and he was insistent on Sasha being a top 5 SG or something. Wonder if this is OP. I’ll never forget it.

[One_and_Done]

I remember arguing with a Bron fan years ago and he was insistent on Sasha being a top 5 SG or something. Wonder if this is OP. I’ll never forget it.

Sasha had 1 good year, some solid years, and some bad years. On the whole though he was a solid bench wing.

[Goomba3666]

I remember arguing with a Bron fan years ago and he was insistent on Sasha being a top 5 SG or something. Wonder if this is OP. I’ll never forget it.

Sasha had 1 good year, some solid years, and some bad years. On the whole though he was a solid bench wing.

Lol. Was he solid only with Kobe or afterwards too? Also, where would you rank him in SGs during that time?

[levon]

Like 40? Maybe? They would've easily missed the playoffs. 46 wins was the 9th place that year. No way they win 49 and make it in 8th.

[ScrantonBulls]

Who the f knows. They were stacked, but so was the West at the time.

[One_and_Done]

I remember arguing with a Bron fan years ago and he was insistent on Sasha being a top 5 SG or something. Wonder if this is OP. I’ll never forget it.

Sasha had 1 good year, some solid years, and some bad years. On the whole though he was a solid bench wing.

Lol. Was he solid only with Kobe or afterwards too? Also, where would you rank him in SGs during that time?

I can't imagine he was ever a top 5 guard. Whoever said that is nuts. We're talking about him being a nice bench piece though.

[Goomba3666]

Sasha had 1 good year, some solid years, and some bad years. On the whole though he was a solid bench wing.

Lol. Was he solid only with Kobe or afterwards too? Also, where would you rank him in SGs during that time?

I can't imagine he was ever a top 5 guard. Whoever said that is nuts. We're talking about him being a nice bench piece though.

Solid only alongside Kobe just like the rest of those guys? Where else was he a solid bench piece? Ditto with Jordan Farmer and DMenga

[One_and_Done]

Like 40? Maybe? They would've easily missed the playoffs. 46 wins was the 9th place that year. No way they win 49 and make it in 8th.

Pau had led the Grizz to a 3 year stretch were they were a 50ish win team, and Odom is a heck.of alot better than the 2nd best guy on any of those Grizzlies teams.

[turnaroundJ]

Suns need a facilitator bad lol

[Up-And-Coming]

Fisher/Farmar
Ariza/Shannon Brown
Odom/Vujacic
Pau/Walton
Bynum/Powell

I actually think the 2008/2009 team with an improving Ariza (this was his breakout year) was better than the 2010 team with Ron Artest. They won 65 games with Kobe and I think they're still a playoff team without Kobe. I say 45-37 record.

[levon]

Fisher/Farmar
Ariza/Shannon Brown
Odom/Vujacic
Pau/Walton
Bynum/Powell

I actually think the 2008/2009 team with an improving Ariza (this was his breakout year) was better than the 2010 team with Ron Artest. They won 65 games with Kobe and I think they're still a playoff team without Kobe. I say 45-37 record.

It would've taken 48.5 to make the playoffs that year.

[art_tatum]

Probably better than if you took pau out and it was Kobe instead.

[ROballer]

Bynum was mostly out than playing though.

Why are we putting up lineups out of our arses and failing to acknowledge that?

We're assuming a healthy Bynum now to straighten our agenda? Because he was far from healthy.


Lineup on most nights would have been Gasol/Odom/Ariza/Vujacic/Fisher. Ariza had a breakout season that year because he was playing with Kobe and benefitted from lack of attention of the other teams. Was a nobody before that, still only played 24 mpg and got 9 ppg in that "breakout" year.

Fisher and Vujacic were spot up shooters.

So you basically had 3 guys in the backcourt who couldn't get a bucket if they weren't spoon fed by someone else. ZERO "getting their own shot guys". Good luck with that one.

30-35 wins at best.

[Up-And-Coming]

I watched the whole 2008/2009 Lakers season and Bynum had missed some time but he played the majority of games (50) as well as every playoff game. In regards to the regular season Bynum was a staple and a big part of the rotation and literally started every single game that he played, right next to Pau. It was only in the playoffs when Phil leaned more heavily on Odom.

Trevor Ariza had a breakout season as a quality rotation player to his credit and continued to progress in his career long after the Lakers/Kobe. His raw counting stats of course were never going to pop out as he was the 4th option at best offensively but he had great impact stats and better advanced metrics (VORP, bpm, etc) than Ron Artest had the following year.

Phil would have most likely started Luke Walton or Sasha the majority of games if he chose to continue to bring Odom off the bench in Kobe's absence. Fisher was a quality player and had high impact stats beyond his raw counting numbers as well that year. Odom was our valuable "Swiss army knife" player.

I'm a fan of Kobe, he was a great player but that 2008/2009 Lakers team was certainly deep with elite size, good coaching and had a solid combination of youth and players in their prime. It's not a knock on Kobe to suggest they would have won 45 games (20 less than their 65 total wins) which would place them just a game behind the 9th seed.

[One_and_Done]

Probably better than if you took pau out and it was Kobe instead.

Very likely.