WAS/CHI - Kuzma and Lavine

[nate33]

Washington trades: Kuzma + Poole
Chicago trades: Lavine + Ball + POR 1st (lotto protected through 2028 then turns into a SRP).

Washington dumps Poole and acquires a mediocre future FRP. Lavine is out for the rest of the season, but maybe they can get flip him for something useful next year. I'm not sure he has much positive value with his contract and injury history, but maybe they can at least trade him into someone's cap and still clear salary.

Chicago turns two expensive guys who won't play another minute this year (and Lonzo probably won't play next year either) into Kuzma and Poole. Kuzma is a value at his contract and a good fit, and should help keep Chicago afloat in their race to make the playoffs. Poole is negative value, but he has played a little better in the last 23 games relative to his first 21. (He was an absolute train wreck in his first 21 games with a TS% around .500 and awful D. Since then, his usage has dropped a bit, his TS% is modestly better at about .530, his turnovers have plummeted, and the defense has actually improved.) The cost is a FRP that probably won't convey for another 3-4 years and when it does, it'll merely be a pick in the late teens. The trade gives Chicago a $7.3M TPE which they could use to absorb another player from a 3rd team if desired.

[winforlose]

Washington trades: Kuzma + Poole
Chicago trades: Lavine + Ball + POR 1st (lotto protected through 2028 then turns into a SRP).

Washington dumps Poole and acquires a mediocre future FRP. Lavine is out for the rest of the season, but maybe they can get flip him for something useful next year. I'm not sure he has much positive value with his contract and injury history, but maybe they can at least trade him into someone's cap and still clear salary.

Chicago turns two expensive guys who won't play another minute this year (and Lonzo probably won't play next year either) into Kuzma and Poole. Kuzma is a value at his contract and a good fit, and should help keep Chicago afloat in their race to make the playoffs. Poole is negative value, but he has played a little better in the last 23 games relative to his first 21. (He was an absolute train wreck in his first 21 games with a TS% around .500 and awful D. Since then, his usage has dropped a bit, his TS% is modestly better at about .530, his turnovers have plummeted, and the defense has actually improved.) The cost is a FRP that probably won't convey for another 3-4 years and when it does, it'll merely be a pick in the late teens. The trade gives Chicago a $7.3M TPE which they could use to absorb another player from a 3rd team if desired.

Not sure either team does this. Kuzma for a protected first and a ton of toxic money isn’t exactly a bargain. The only upside is that Poole is a negative asset as well. Meanwhile the Bulls are giving up a first to dump Lavine when they were hoping to get value from him. They are better off holding him through the deadline and seeing how he recovers before the draft.

[nate33]

Washington trades: Kuzma + Poole
Chicago trades: Lavine + Ball + POR 1st (lotto protected through 2028 then turns into a SRP).

Washington dumps Poole and acquires a mediocre future FRP. Lavine is out for the rest of the season, but maybe they can get flip him for something useful next year. I'm not sure he has much positive value with his contract and injury history, but maybe they can at least trade him into someone's cap and still clear salary.

Chicago turns two expensive guys who won't play another minute this year (and Lonzo probably won't play next year either) into Kuzma and Poole. Kuzma is a value at his contract and a good fit, and should help keep Chicago afloat in their race to make the playoffs. Poole is negative value, but he has played a little better in the last 23 games relative to his first 21. (He was an absolute train wreck in his first 21 games with a TS% around .500 and awful D. Since then, his usage has dropped a bit, his TS% is modestly better at about .530, his turnovers have plummeted, and the defense has actually improved.) The cost is a FRP that probably won't convey for another 3-4 years and when it does, it'll merely be a pick in the late teens. The trade gives Chicago a $7.3M TPE which they could use to absorb another player from a 3rd team if desired.

Not sure either team does this. Kuzma for a protected first and a ton of toxic money isn’t exactly a bargain. The only upside is that Poole is a negative asset as well. Meanwhile the Bulls are giving up a first to dump Lavine when they were hoping to get value from him. They are better off holding him through the deadline and seeing how he recovers before the draft.

The basic logic here is that the Bulls actually still want to win games this year and the Wizards don't care. So the team who is trying to win will value two active players with a pulse, and the team that doesn't care about winning won't mind two guys who won't play another minute.

[winforlose]

Washington trades: Kuzma + Poole
Chicago trades: Lavine + Ball + POR 1st (lotto protected through 2028 then turns into a SRP).

Washington dumps Poole and acquires a mediocre future FRP. Lavine is out for the rest of the season, but maybe they can get flip him for something useful next year. I'm not sure he has much positive value with his contract and injury history, but maybe they can at least trade him into someone's cap and still clear salary.

Chicago turns two expensive guys who won't play another minute this year (and Lonzo probably won't play next year either) into Kuzma and Poole. Kuzma is a value at his contract and a good fit, and should help keep Chicago afloat in their race to make the playoffs. Poole is negative value, but he has played a little better in the last 23 games relative to his first 21. (He was an absolute train wreck in his first 21 games with a TS% around .500 and awful D. Since then, his usage has dropped a bit, his TS% is modestly better at about .530, his turnovers have plummeted, and the defense has actually improved.) The cost is a FRP that probably won't convey for another 3-4 years and when it does, it'll merely be a pick in the late teens. The trade gives Chicago a $7.3M TPE which they could use to absorb another player from a 3rd team if desired.

Not sure either team does this. Kuzma for a protected first and a ton of toxic money isn’t exactly a bargain. The only upside is that Poole is a negative asset as well. Meanwhile the Bulls are giving up a first to dump Lavine when they were hoping to get value from him. They are better off holding him through the deadline and seeing how he recovers before the draft.

The basic logic here is that the Bulls actually still want to win games this year and the Wizards don't care. So the team who is trying to win will value two active players with a pulse, and the team that doesn't care about winning won't mind two guys who won't play another minute.

1. Kuzma might get more pick value by himself than in this deal.
2. Lavine for Poole sticks Washington with more bad money going forward. I don’t know how long Washington plans to suck, but this isn’t exactly going to shorten that period.
3. Poole might have a pulse, but I think Ball is contributing more to them winning by being absent than Poole does by being present.

[jayjaysee]

Chicago should do this. Kuzma will stay worth more than LaVine and might actually help their play-in push. Poole can play behind Coby, Demar, and Caruso.

If Washington can get a better first for Kuz, they should take it and sit on Poole’s smaller bad contract. If not, take the chance here and try and flip LaVine in 12 months.

[basketballwacko2]

Washington trades: Kuzma + Poole
Chicago trades: Lavine + Ball + POR 1st (lotto protected through 2028 then turns into a SRP).

Washington dumps Poole and acquires a mediocre future FRP. Lavine is out for the rest of the season, but maybe they can get flip him for something useful next year. I'm not sure he has much positive value with his contract and injury history, but maybe they can at least trade him into someone's cap and still clear salary.

Chicago turns two expensive guys who won't play another minute this year (and Lonzo probably won't play next year either) into Kuzma and Poole. Kuzma is a value at his contract and a good fit, and should help keep Chicago afloat in their race to make the playoffs. Poole is negative value, but he has played a little better in the last 23 games relative to his first 21. (He was an absolute train wreck in his first 21 games with a TS% around .500 and awful D. Since then, his usage has dropped a bit, his TS% is modestly better at about .530, his turnovers have plummeted, and the defense has actually improved.) The cost is a FRP that probably won't convey for another 3-4 years and when it does, it'll merely be a pick in the late teens. The trade gives Chicago a $7.3M TPE which they could use to absorb another player from a 3rd team if desired.

I was about to post a LaVine for Kuzma trade when I saw this. It makes sense for the Wizards if they are going full tank for this year.

I'm not sure about the Bulls trading Lonzo, with has injury issues they could get a medical retirement which might be better than trading him.

If it's Poole and Kuzma for Lavine, Lonzo and a pick that's pretty good for the Wizards, getting out of Poole is good and if Lavine gets back to his level of play and the foot/Ankle issues are fixed they might be able to move him at the next dead line and get something.

[zimpy27]

Nice deal

[cgf]

I like the idea...but I'm not as down on any of these players as the consensus, despite Lavine & Poole costing a good 5-10M a year more than I'd like them to.

Kuzma to Chicago is something I've been throwing out iterations of all season, but with Zach going down the Poole/Lavine angle is an interesting addition. Think this makes sense for both sides given each teams' goals...regardless of how smart we think it is for them to have those goals.

[basketballwacko2]

Not sure either team does this. Kuzma for a protected first and a ton of toxic money isn’t exactly a bargain. The only upside is that Poole is a negative asset as well. Meanwhile the Bulls are giving up a first to dump Lavine when they were hoping to get value from him. They are better off holding him through the deadline and seeing how he recovers before the draft.

The basic logic here is that the Bulls actually still want to win games this year and the Wizards don't care. So the team who is trying to win will value two active players with a pulse, and the team that doesn't care about winning won't mind two guys who won't play another minute.

1. Kuzma might get more pick value by himself than in this deal.
2. Lavine for Poole sticks Washington with more bad money going forward. I don’t know how long Washington plans to suck, but this isn’t exactly going to shorten that period.
3. Poole might have a pulse, but I think Ball is contributing more to them winning by being absent than Poole does by being present.

Lavine for Poole does put bad salary on the Wizard but are they a threat to make the Playoffs in the next 3 years? I'd say not, the rebuild will take 3-4 years in most cases.

And Kuzma might get more value than this. I could take Kuzma out of it and do this.

Lavine and Ball plus the Portland #1 for Poole, Tyus Jones, and Delon Wright.

That works on the Salary. The bulls get out of dead money in Lonzo, Jones and Wright expire they are left with a less expensive 2 guard in Poole.

And the Wizards get a #1 that may not convey until 2028 or becomes a 2nd in 2028, they would then have Lavine who they might be able to move at a later date. They'd still have Kuzma who they could still trade and get a #1 or more depending on the matching salary.

[cgf]

The basic logic here is that the Bulls actually still want to win games this year and the Wizards don't care. So the team who is trying to win will value two active players with a pulse, and the team that doesn't care about winning won't mind two guys who won't play another minute.

1. Kuzma might get more pick value by himself than in this deal.
2. Lavine for Poole sticks Washington with more bad money going forward. I don’t know how long Washington plans to suck, but this isn’t exactly going to shorten that period.
3. Poole might have a pulse, but I think Ball is contributing more to them winning by being absent than Poole does by being present.

Lavine for Poole does put bad salary on the Wizard but are they a threat to make the Playoffs in the next 3 years? I'd say not, the rebuild will take 3-4 years in most cases.

And Kuzma might get more value than this. I could take Kuzma out of it and do this.

Lavine and Ball plus the Portland #1 for Poole, Tyus Jones, and Delon Wright.

That works on the Salary. The bulls get out of dead money in Lonzo, Jones and Wright expire they are left with a less expensive 2 guard in Poole.

And the Wizards get a #1 that may not convey until 2028 or becomes a 2nd in 2028, they would then have Lavine who they might be able to move at a later date. They'd still have Kuzma who they could still trade and get a #1 or more depending on the matching salary.

Doubt the Bulls bite on that unless they're really high on Poole. That team is still trying to win games and should be well clear of the second apron next season whether they move Lavine or not.

[winforlose]

The basic logic here is that the Bulls actually still want to win games this year and the Wizards don't care. So the team who is trying to win will value two active players with a pulse, and the team that doesn't care about winning won't mind two guys who won't play another minute.

1. Kuzma might get more pick value by himself than in this deal.
2. Lavine for Poole sticks Washington with more bad money going forward. I don’t know how long Washington plans to suck, but this isn’t exactly going to shorten that period.
3. Poole might have a pulse, but I think Ball is contributing more to them winning by being absent than Poole does by being present.

Lavine for Poole does put bad salary on the Wizard but are they a threat to make the Playoffs in the next 3 years? I'd say not, the rebuild will take 3-4 years in most cases.

And Kuzma might get more value than this. I could take Kuzma out of it and do this.

Lavine and Ball plus the Portland #1 for Poole, Tyus Jones, and Delon Wright.

That works on the Salary. The bulls get out of dead money in Lonzo, Jones and Wright expire they are left with a less expensive 2 guard in Poole.

And the Wizards get a #1 that may not convey until 2028 or becomes a 2nd in 2028, they would then have Lavine who they might be able to move at a later date. They'd still have Kuzma who they could still trade and get a #1 or more depending on the matching salary.

I still think Tyus and Delon get more back than this. A non lottery first which eventually converts to seconds isn’t that high value. I mean Portland is Portland gonna be outside the lottery before then? Play in teams can still be lottery teams and Tyus by himself is worth a couple seconds. Wright might be worth a second as well. Also, the Bulls stated they want a decent return for Lavine. If he plays well next season they might get something positive for him, especially with another year off his deal.

[ChettheJet]

I think the Bulls do it, even though I'm in the Chicago minority that thinks Lonzo could actually return next year. Kuzma pairs with Williams up front on either side of Vucevic, I like that. DeRozan becomes the SG, as mentioned Poole comes off the bench as the willing shooter with Dosunmu, Craig, Drummond and if Caruso stays.

I don't get the WIZ wanting their share of $60M in folding chairs for this year and the Rehab watch to start next year. That's looking like at least two more tanking years, maybe 3.

I'd see how to leave Poole and Ball out of the mix and maybe WASH really wants to move Poole find another team, and see how Caruso and Drummond going to #3 swings Poole to the Bulls with a pick or 3 moving around

[HartfordWhalers]

I really like it. Its a really well done idea, just all the way around.

[cgf]

My only question is, how can I weasel the knicks into this framework so we can snag Caruso for a pick (or two)?

[nate33]

I don't get the WIZ wanting their share of $60M in folding chairs for this year and the Rehab watch to start next year. That's looking like at least two more tanking years, maybe 3.

I think the key consideration of this trade is the expected future value of Lavine. If the Wizards can flip him next year for one decent FRP and a not-too-crappy contract, then the trade would be a win. If Lavine ends up being a negative value after another injury, then this is a bad deal because it would have been better to just trade Kuzma for a pick and a short contract.

If the Wizards actually did a deal like this, I expect that they would have first done their homework on Lavine's value.

[nykballa2k4]

I like it. Also gives the Wiz a good chance to be competitive in 2026 so we can use that pick!

[basketballwacko2]

I think the Bulls do it, even though I'm in the Chicago minority that thinks Lonzo could actually return next year. Kuzma pairs with Williams up front on either side of Vucevic, I like that. DeRozan becomes the SG, as mentioned Poole comes off the bench as the willing shooter with Dosunmu, Craig, Drummond and if Caruso stays.

I don't get the WIZ wanting their share of $60M in folding chairs for this year and the Rehab watch to start next year. That's looking like at least two more tanking years, maybe 3.

I'd see how to leave Poole and Ball out of the mix and maybe WASH really wants to move Poole find another team, and see how Caruso and Drummond going to #3 swings Poole to the Bulls with a pick or 3 moving around

It looks to me like the Wizards are looking at a 3 yr rebuild, unless they get lucky on a developing star the way the Bucks did with GA. They may as well do what they can to collect assets, and if the Bulls would take Poole and give the Wiz a #1 why not take a chance on Lavine recovering in Aug or Sept. He'd be the focus of the team and look to move him at the 2025 deadline if he's recovered and healthy.

I'm pretty sure Lonzo is done but maybe he can come back, I doubt it.

I like my variation on the OP making it Lavine and Ball plus the portland #1 for Poole, Tyus and Wright. For the bulls it opens up some room in the off season, I have not done the math but getting out of ball and Lavine and only having poole's money on the cap sheet looks better to me. Bull should have more flexibility after that.

[penbeast0]

If Chicago can get the insurance payout on Ball and Washington can't, that sort of screws up the OP deal. I sure wouldn't count on Lavine being worth a 1st and an expiring next year though. If one of Lavine or Poole returns to form and the other doesn't this gets the GM fired so I'd be surprised if the teams bite on it. Not a Poole fan (who is?) but I think Washington is in a better position to ride out his contract that anyone else.