Is Sam Presti overrated?

[JMAC3]

Thunder have existed for 15.5 years now. Have had 7 All-NBA talents in KD, Westbrook, Harden, Paul George, Chris Paul, Dom Sabonis and SGA. Have 1 Finals appearance and zero titles. Does he deserve more love for acquiring those guys or more hate for never winning with them?

[thelead]

No

/thread

[dc]

Still blows my mind how he turned Serge Ibaka into SGA and a bazillion picks.

If the Thunder ever got tired of having Presti, he'd have about 10 job offers within 30 minutes. He'd probably get calls from NFL teams, LOL.

[JMAC3]

Is the ultimate goal of a GM to win a title or have a bunch of press clippings on how good of a trade he made?

We pretty much judge players solely on winning and winning titles, no?

[dhsilv2]

Is the ultimate goal of a GM to win a title or have a bunch of press clippings on how good of a trade he made?

We pretty much judge players solely on winning and winning titles, no?

Dumb people judge players on titles alone.

[yosemiteben]

If you're going to criticize the lack of postseason success, seems like right before they exit a rebuild with a **** ton of assets to build with is not a fair time to do it.

[dc]

We pretty much judge players solely on winning and winning titles, no?

We judge great players on winning/winning titles.

Nobody ever criticizes Dale Davis or Charles Oakley for never having won a title or says, "he did everything but win a ring".

[NYPiston]

The main reason why he didn't win titles with those guys is because Harden wanted out (wanted a bigger role) and KD signed elsewhere. Not sure why Presti gets a black mark for that. His drafting and trades are as good as any GM in the league, it's not easy GMing a small market team (and in this case, THE smallest market) unless you get lucky like landing Tim Duncan in a draft lottery. Presti has done as well as can be considering the circumstances.

[KembaWalker]

He’s done well accumulating assets, arguably the easy part if you have ownership green light to do so. Consolidating is the hard part. TBD

[JMAC3]

And by no means is this me saying he isn't a good GM. Of course he is and tons of teams would hire him if let go. Butttttt if there was a poll on who are the best GMs in the NBA, I would assume he would be at the top or near it. If someone made the argument he is the best GM in the league, would you agree?

[slick_watts]

sam presti isn't perfect. but, judging a gm on postseason results isn't always the best approach. would you take sam presti over masai ujiri? i would. i'd take him over mitch kupchak too. winning a title or titles sometimes takes luck. sam presti assembled one of the best groups in the 2010s, and three of those prime seasons were derailed by injuries out of his control (westbrook 2013, ibaka 2014, kd 2015). 2011 they made wcf as a team comprised mostly of under-25 year olds, 2012 made the finals, 2016 made wcf. and then kd was gone.

a few years later and they have a team full of young talent near the top of the standings, and in an even better position than they were at the start of the last run. he's in the top 5 of gm's easily, imo.

[dc]

The main reason why he didn't win titles with those guys is because Harden wanted out (wanted a bigger role) and KD signed elsewhere. Not sure why Presti gets a black mark for that. His drafting and trades are as good as any GM in the league, it's not easy GMing a small market team (and in this case, THE smallest market) unless you get lucky like landing Tim Duncan in a draft lottery. Presti has done as well as can be considering the circumstances.

I agree with all that, but he did make some mistakes:

1. Drafted Jeff Green, who plays the same position as KD, 3 picks after KD.

2. Hated the thought of losing an asset (Green) for nothing, so he traded him for Perkins, then extended Perkins. Extending Perkins made it that much harder to re-sign Harden while staying under the tax.

3. Failed to get enough shooting on those KD/Russ teams.

4. Likely stuck with Scott Brooks for too long.

[JMAC3]

sam presti isn't perfect. but, judging a gm on postseason results isn't always the best approach. would you take sam presti over masai ujiri? i would. i'd take him over mitch kupchak too. winning a title or titles sometimes takes luck. sam presti assembled one of the best groups in the 2010s, and three of those prime seasons were derailed by injuries out of his control (westbrook 2013, ibaka 2014, kd 2015). 2011 they made wcf as a team comprised mostly of under-25 year olds, 2012 made the finals, 2016 made wcf. and then kd was gone.

a few years later and they have a team full of young talent near the top of the standings, and in an even better position than they were at the start of the last run. he's in the top 5 of gm's easily, imo.

Idk, if you're an OKC fan would you rather have a title right now but Toronto roster or zero titles and your roster now?

[BadWolf]

In a way yes.
But also no.

[Godymas]

the only mistake Presti ever made was letting James Harden walk for a few million

it just so happened that his HoF talent coincided with one of the greatest regular season runs of all time by an even greater player. OKC goes down in a hopeless fashion in that finals and he loses his star player in KD that off-season to the Warriors due to a massive change in salary cap that summer and an insane underpay for Steph on his previous contract. Presti does his best with WB but ultimately the WB and PG pairing never really takes off into contender with regular first round exits.

The deal he flipped WB for was great, but the deal to get SGA is one of the all time returns, then the Thunder are bad for 2 years, look I live in the Wizards territory, so those 2 years of sucking were still more productive than any Wizards season of the last 5 years. Tanked and now his drafting has proven once again that he has one of the greatest eyes for talent of all time. So many guys on OKC's current roster were guys that Presti drafted into their team and the dividends are showing. OKC is back on top for the next 5 years at a minimum with their clear franchise guys and tons of flexibility in terms of potential trades and deals and picks to move.

Look winning a title is not easy. Everyone should recognize that in the 2010s 7 different teams won championships and the decade was truly ran by 3 players from 2012-2020 and their names were LeBron James, Steph Curry, and Kawhi Leonard. Giannis won his first MVP in 2018-2019 and since that season he's only made the finals once and it's now 2024. Making the finals is very hard and something that is taken for granted at times. Presti not making the finals is not a reflection of his failure. Masai managed to get one of the three guys that guaranteed a title to catapult his legacy back to the top.

[MoneyTalks41890]

16 seasons as GM, there have been 3 "bad" seasons and one 40-42 season. OKC has only missed the playoffs two times in a row once, 21-22. Otherwise they have never had consecutive years where they weren't in the playoffs. In one of the smallest markets. And recall he was 30 years old when he took the job.

He's one of the GOAT GMs. Definitely top 5 currently. Not to say there weren't some mistakes along the way, finishing a team has been his biggest weakness to date. But he's done a good job of putting perfect role players on this team. Most teams would trade their GM for him.

I mean the Jalen Williams pick alone...

[Capn'O]

It's pretty well documented that he was hamstrung by ownership regarding resigning Harden and then he lost Durant to free agency, likely as a result. Then a decent team with Westbrook/George between then and now, where he's built up another contending core.

He's done a great job consistently building winners in one of the league's smallest markets. Easily one of, if not the best, executives in the league.

[dc]

It's pretty well documented that he was hamstrung by ownership regarding resigning Harden and then he lost Durant to free agency, likely as a result. Then a decent team with Westbrook/George between that. Now he's built up another contending core.

He's done a great job consistently building winners.

Definitely made some good picks and brilliant trades. KD at #2 was one of the biggest no brain picks of all time, but people should remember Westbrook and Harden weren't actually the obvious picks at the time. I thought teams were dumb to pass on Jalen Williams in the mid-late lotto, but Presti wasn't.

Then turning Ibaka into Oladipo/Sabonis to Paul George to SGA and a billion picks is something I'll never get over. Crazy.

[Anderson Hunt]

He’s done well accumulating assets, arguably the easy part if you have ownership green light to do so. Consolidating is the hard part. TBD

Drafting isn't easy, but dumping and acquiring players for picks is.

He deserves credit for drafting, for sure.

As far as winning a ring and/or "consolidating", he hasn't had the time to do so. The old OKC was broken up due to finances (Harden) and greener pastures (Durant). This new iteration of the Thunder haven't had time to be great yet before Presto makes a move.

You can nearly guarantee that he'll make a big move this summer ... Karl Anthony Towns would be an ideal fit if Minnesota wants to save a ton of money.

[MoneyTalks41890]

It's pretty well documented that he was hamstrung by ownership regarding resigning Harden and then he lost Durant to free agency, likely as a result. Then a decent team with Westbrook/George between that. Now he's built up another contending core.

He's done a great job consistently building winners.

Definitely made some good picks and brilliant trades. KD at #2 was one of the biggest no brain picks of all time, but people should remember Westbrook and Harden weren't actually the obvious picks at the time. I thought teams were dumb to pass on Jalen Williams in the mid-late lotto, but Presti wasn't.

Then turning Ibaka into Oladipo/Sabonis to Paul George to SGA and a billion picks is something I'll never get over. Crazy.

I think that's the chain that actually starts all the way back with the Kurt Thomas trade IIRC.