PG: Raps Net A Win!

[ArthurVandelay]

Game's been done for an hour now and we haven't made it to page 2 yet. I wonder if things would be different had we lost.

The season is in limbo

Record wise, not bad enough to keep the pick, not good enough to be thinking playoffs/playin right now

You can only call this season a success if they keep the pick or make the playoffs

And even if they make the playoffs then it’s still a question of how do they add talent to get to the next step?

Giving up the pick and not making the playoffs is a disaster for Masai and Bobby…and I’m a Masai fan

I'm still not sure it's really a disaster, unless you believe that they'll be bad enough for the next 3 years that eventually the pick will just convert to two 2nds. And if they're that bad for that long, God save this board.

Conveying the pick this summer would mean that the Raps would control all of their future 1sts (plus have Indiana's 2026 1st) which would allow the management group a lot more flexibility in making deals going forward if the right opportunities come along. Or, they just make all of the picks and the main difference is that one happens a year later than the one this year.

I look at the trade as having pushed ahead the rebuild. Getting IQ 24 and RJ 23 is adding younger, NBA proven talent. Adding a player in the lottery, let alone the draft, is no guarantee of success, one only needs to look at past draft results to realize most players don't become what they are hyped to be.

But even though they added the younger talent in IQ and RJ to go with Scottie and Dick, they are still a lotto team right now. No lotto team, especially one that is starting a rebuild, is trading away lotto picks for a C like Poeltl, unless a team like Memphis that is trashed by injuries this year or a team that is loaded with young prospects already (and even then it's dicey at best if they would). A lottery pick is the only thing a bad team has to show for a losing season.

So while disaster is a strong word, I don't think it's hyperbole. I can't see Masai and Bobby making this trade thinking we're good with trading #7-10 next year in the lottery for Poeltl.

Hopefully the games at least remain entertaining.

[tradejosehesux]

A PG thread barely 5 pages?

Tank nation is alive and well.

[deck]

I can see the argument that Dick is playing so well because he's not being thrown out there for huge minutes. But it sure would be nice to try for a game or two to see if he can handle it. He should be getting the Brown minutes IMO.

Whatever Bruce could have fetched at the deadline will only diminish as we get farther away from the Denver chip, and he continues to not play well. I'd be shocked if he's on the team next season, but my surprise won't be as high as his disappointment if that were the case. I can see why they moved Dennis for nothing. You can't have 2 "I'm too good for this situation" guys on the team around our youngsters.

Nobody played a ton of minutes so they should be fine for tonight's game.

I tend to agree regarding Brown. It's not a knock on him as a player, it's just hard to justify giving him minutes on a consistent basis given where our team's roster is at. We are in an awkward spot now where we have to keep giving him minutes to try to retain his value, but that will be at the expense of minutes for Dick, Ochai, and others.

[TheDunc]

At this point Gradey should be starting, yes gary will have better scoring nights but hes not part of the plan here longterm

[Jadoogar]

As much as i have complained about the Raptors, atleast we're not the Nets. They don't own their own picks and are relying on Phoenix getting bad at some point in the future. Their best asset is Mikal Bridges, a really good role player but no star potential. Their best young players are Cam Thomas (chucker) and Nic Claxton (free agent). The best thing they can look forward to for a while is that Ben Simmons is expiring next summer. There's always the offchance that they can get a star because of their city but the outlook is bleak right now.

From the Raptors, good win. This is what i would like to see the rest of the way, getting development reps for Scottie/RJ/IQ and Gradey. I'm happy we kept Poeltl because having a competent center is so important for a developing team.

[TimeForChange]

From the Raptors, good win. This is what i would like to see the rest of the way, getting development reps for Scottie/RJ/IQ and Gradey. I'm happy we kept Poeltl because having a competent center is so important for a developing team.

I am with you.

I am not worrying about wins and losses. I want to see more consistency.

The defense was outstanding last night and it needs to continue.

Having Ochai play the POA and letting Scottie get some rest on defense with the second unit was huge.

Let's hope they can continue the effort on the defensive end tonight.

[TimeForChange]

At this point Gradey should be starting, yes gary will have better scoring nights but hes not part of the plan here longterm

I think the early sub in the 3rd quarter was a sign that Gradey will be joining the starting lineup soon if GTJ doesn't give the defensive effort that is needed.

[TimeForChange]

Take defence, for example, where progress begins with something as simple as protecting the paint.

“For me, that’s the first thing we've got to make huge improvements and strides in, improving the paint … and then learn closeouts, learn how to closely contest, learn how to better finish possessions, and that’s all part of the things that I see initiated,” he said before the game.

“We’re going to sit down with each player and tell them what the plan is, where we want to see improvement … We don’t expect to see results the next day, but that’s why we have (now 26) games. It’s why we have a great stretch here over the next few weeks, (to) see who is making progress.”

this is what I am looking for

[ArthurVandelay]

The season is in limbo

Record wise, not bad enough to keep the pick, not good enough to be thinking playoffs/playin right now

You can only call this season a success if they keep the pick or make the playoffs

And even if they make the playoffs then it’s still a question of how do they add talent to get to the next step?

Giving up the pick and not making the playoffs is a disaster for Masai and Bobby…and I’m a Masai fan

I'm still not sure it's really a disaster, unless you believe that they'll be bad enough for the next 3 years that eventually the pick will just convert to two 2nds. And if they're that bad for that long, God save this board.

Conveying the pick this summer would mean that the Raps would control all of their future 1sts (plus have Indiana's 2026 1st) which would allow the management group a lot more flexibility in making deals going forward if the right opportunities come along. Or, they just make all of the picks and the main difference is that one happens a year later than the one this year.

The most likely scenario for this season is that the Raptors miss the playoffs and also convey the pick. To characterize that as a disaster is ludicrous. Raptor management clearly understood that this was one of several possible scenarios when they made the Poeltl trade. Many of us understand that we have 2 picks in this draft already, a 1st and a very near 1st, which will add more talent to the mix. We have 4 1sts and 2 2nds in the next 3 years, assuming we convey, with the ability to bring back more picks and prospects using Brown and salary flexibilty this offseason. We have a good rotation for a rebuilding team. We'll see how much progress is made in the remainder of the season, but I think we have lots to be excited about based on last night's game. Progress won't be linear, but it will come.

Also, "this will be a disaster for Bobby and Masai, and I'm a Masai fan"? Sure you are.

[tecumseh18]

The dude was posting on Instagram stories about how excited he was in joining the Nets almost immediately after the trade. He flew to New York and showed up at the Nets game that night and immediately interviewed with the Nets broadcast. So pumped yet he's playing the same or lesser role for the Nets than he did for the Raptors who are both in the same level of mediocrity this season. I really hope he learns from this and not be so full of himself again. I actually thought he wasn't bad as a Raptor and was a team player but the reports about why he wanted out (and the Raptors desperately trading him for cap space) and his recent comments to Kayla Gray just leaves a bad taste.

What comments to Kayla, the ones in Detroit back in January? Or something more recent?

Read on Twitter

?s=20

OK I read it again and maybe I'm taking it a little out of context - just sounded a bit selfish. But he's trying to say he wanted to make a playoff run here and be a big part of that like he did for Germany but it didn't happen or he's implying that Raptors organization had development a bigger priority than winning - but even if that's what he meant, its not like Dennis in the NBA is that type of difference maker. He never was and never will be - but a backup PG? he's a good one at that price.

Yes, Dennis is a good back-up PG for a contending team, especially for the MLE. But Darko insisted on playing him like he was Manu f'n Ginobili. Whatever "promises" were made when he signed, it just didn't work with the new direction the Raptors are taking.

I thought we could have traded Dennis for a FRP at the deadline or in the summer. But the contenders have no picks, or are now hoarding what's left of them (and their cap space) to hopefully make a big splash. Meanwhile, it's always good to keep agency relationships in good standing. If Dennis wanted out, then let him go for more cap space next year.

[Tripod]

At this point Gradey should be starting, yes gary will have better scoring nights but hes not part of the plan here longterm

I think the early sub in the 3rd quarter was a sign that Gradey will be joining the starting lineup soon if GTJ doesn't give the defensive effort that is needed.

Darko needs some credit with that move too.

It looked liked 2 times GTJ didn't go where he was supposed to and it led to turnovers and Nets got momentum. Darko took the timeout, Gradey went in, and the Raps went on a run. And it was with GTJ shooting very well on the night.

And credit to GTJ that when he came back in, he was more engaged and continued hitting his shots.

I am fine with Gradey continuing to come off the bench. At some point, we will have an injury or 2 and things will have to get altered anyways. Just keep things simple as these guys finally got a little practice time together.

[TimeForChange]

At this point Gradey should be starting, yes gary will have better scoring nights but hes not part of the plan here longterm

I think the early sub in the 3rd quarter was a sign that Gradey will be joining the starting lineup soon if GTJ doesn't give the defensive effort that is needed.

Darko needs some credit with that move too.

Darko coached a great game yesterday. I have not been a fan, but maybe the ASG was good for him too.

I want to see consistency from both the players and the coaches and we got that last night.

[T_saurus]

Kelly is a savvy player, I like when he stole the inbounds pass for a layup. That kind of play usually happens TO the Raptors.

[TimeForChange]

no idea where the hawks thread is but

Read on Twitter

[mihaic]

At this point Gradey should be starting, yes gary will have better scoring nights but hes not part of the plan here longterm

I think the early sub in the 3rd quarter was a sign that Gradey will be joining the starting lineup soon if GTJ doesn't give the defensive effort that is needed.

Good observation, I didn't realize it. Good coaching, I guess.

I wonder if Darko actually might have another level if/when the team starts clicking.

[JB7]

As much as i have complained about the Raptors, atleast we're not the Nets. They don't own their own picks and are relying on Phoenix getting bad at some point in the future. Their best asset is Mikal Bridges, a really good role player but no star potential. Their best young players are Cam Thomas (chucker) and Nic Claxton (free agent). The best thing they can look forward to for a while is that Ben Simmons is expiring next summer. There's always the offchance that they can get a star because of their city but the outlook is bleak right now.

From the Raptors, good win. This is what i would like to see the rest of the way, getting development reps for Scottie/RJ/IQ and Gradey. I'm happy we kept Poeltl because having a competent center is so important for a developing team.

If it was true, that Houston was offering them Jalen Green and all of their (Brooklyn's) FR picks back for Bridges, and they didn't do it, I think that was foolish.

[Jadoogar]

As much as i have complained about the Raptors, atleast we're not the Nets. They don't own their own picks and are relying on Phoenix getting bad at some point in the future. Their best asset is Mikal Bridges, a really good role player but no star potential. Their best young players are Cam Thomas (chucker) and Nic Claxton (free agent). The best thing they can look forward to for a while is that Ben Simmons is expiring next summer. There's always the offchance that they can get a star because of their city but the outlook is bleak right now.

From the Raptors, good win. This is what i would like to see the rest of the way, getting development reps for Scottie/RJ/IQ and Gradey. I'm happy we kept Poeltl because having a competent center is so important for a developing team.

If it was true, that Houston was offering them Jalen Green and all of their (Brooklyn's) FR picks back for Bridges, and they didn't do it, I think that was foolish.

Apparently they have turned 4 FRPs for him several times. I think they still believe they can attract a star, they have a ton of capspace next summer in addition to a bunch of picks from Phx. Mikal Bridges is the exact type of #2 or #3 you want on a title team (like he was in Phoenix).

[JB7]

As much as i have complained about the Raptors, atleast we're not the Nets. They don't own their own picks and are relying on Phoenix getting bad at some point in the future. Their best asset is Mikal Bridges, a really good role player but no star potential. Their best young players are Cam Thomas (chucker) and Nic Claxton (free agent). The best thing they can look forward to for a while is that Ben Simmons is expiring next summer. There's always the offchance that they can get a star because of their city but the outlook is bleak right now.

From the Raptors, good win. This is what i would like to see the rest of the way, getting development reps for Scottie/RJ/IQ and Gradey. I'm happy we kept Poeltl because having a competent center is so important for a developing team.

If it was true, that Houston was offering them Jalen Green and all of their (Brooklyn's) FR picks back for Bridges, and they didn't do it, I think that was foolish.

Apparently they have turned 4 FRPs for him several times. I think they still believe they can attract a star, they have a ton of capspace next summer in addition to a bunch of picks from Phx. Mikal Bridges is the exact type of #2 or #3 you want on a title team (like he was in Phoenix).

The problem is, outside of Bridges, who at best is a #2, what else do they have? They don't even control their picks to trade.

Getting their picks, and a young player like Green would have probably been the better path. They could start building through the draft. And Brooklyn's picks that Houston owns, are more valuable to Brooklyn than the Suns picks, because the Nets have more control over where their own picks will fall.

[mrdressup]

The Nets are really in a terrible spot. Houston controls their draft picks for the next 4 years so itll be hard for them to rebuild.

Theyre really in jail from a team building point of view.

They'll likely come out of it before we do. Where there is a will to turn things around there is usually a way. It's being tentative, "safe", bad at scouting and poor asset managers that can hamper a franchise.

[mrdressup]

Kelly is a savvy player, I like when he stole the inbounds pass for a layup. That kind of play usually happens TO the Raptors.

Kelly-O was a great acquisition. He's exactly why you want for a vet. Cripes, he actually plays. Now that's a luxury for us who are so used to having vets that are like bookends for the bench.