WAS-NYK

[Toine85]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

This trade can't happen until late October, but this allows the Wizards to get their protected 1st round pick back (which is essentially two future 2nd rounders in 2026/2027 that they are now free to use). Knicks get a legit center who can platoon with Mitch.

[daoneandonly]

I think you may have the date wrong, JV wont be trade eligible until Dec 15 correct? Wasnt he a FA signing?

[Scoot McGroot]

I think you may have the date wrong, JV wont be trade eligible until Dec 15 correct? Wasnt he a FA signing?

December is correct. Fanspo is repeatedly wrong on this.

[TGW]

I think this is fair for both sides. Nice idea.

[JayTWill]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

This trade can't happen until late October, but this allows the Wizards to get their protected 1st round pick back (which is essentially two future 2nd rounders in 2026/2027 that they are now free to use). Knicks get a legit center who can platoon with Mitch.

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

[brackdan70]

I like this for both, but didn’t check the salaries, NY is hardcapped at the first Apron if they take back more Salary. They really do need a solid reliable big though. Great for Washington to get there pick back (though it is highly protected and some you players that might pan out.

[Toine85]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

This trade can't happen until late October, but this allows the Wizards to get their protected 1st round pick back (which is essentially two future 2nd rounders in 2026/2027 that they are now free to use). Knicks get a legit center who can platoon with Mitch.

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

[cgf]

Will Thibs really trust Val as his rim protector, even if Mitch gets hurt? Kessler I see the fit with, Val, not so much :-/

[R-DAWG]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

This trade can't happen until late October, but this allows the Wizards to get their protected 1st round pick back (which is essentially two future 2nd rounders in 2026/2027 that they are now free to use). Knicks get a legit center who can platoon with Mitch.

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

I'd do Pacome and the Wash pick for Kessler in a second. The Was pick is going to be 2 2nd's.

[Toine85]

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

I'd do Pacome and the Wash pick for Kessler in a second. The Was pick is going to be 2 2nd's.

It can potentially be a first (not likely). But even if it’s not, the Wiz will have high 2nd rounders as well. Basically a 1st rounder plus two high 2nds. Too much for Kessler IMO.

[penbeast0]

(a) I'd do this for Washington just for the flexibility of having the pick back though I can see why a real team wouldn't because of all the dead money you would be taking on as you have to cut guaranteed contracts to get down to 15.

(b) I'd certainly value Kessler quite a bit higher than JV due to age and my prioritizing defense over offense for centers who fall below the Jokic/Embiid star type. But with a healthy Mitch Robinson, a center who is an offensive threat would probably be a more valuable bench piece if not a more valuable starter in case of injury.

[Scoot McGroot]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

This trade can't happen until late October, but this allows the Wizards to get their protected 1st round pick back (which is essentially two future 2nd rounders in 2026/2027 that they are now free to use). Knicks get a legit center who can platoon with Mitch.

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

A team can go under the minimum roster requirements for up to 2 weeks at a time, and 4 weeks total in the season.

The flip side however is that teams can’t go over 15 main roster spots, so Washington would have to waive enough players before the trade to be able to complete it.

[JayTWill]

(a) I'd do this for Washington just for the flexibility of having the pick back though I can see why a real team wouldn't because of all the dead money you would be taking on as you have to cut guaranteed contracts to get down to 15.

(b) I'd certainly value Kessler quite a bit higher than JV due to age and my prioritizing defense over offense for centers who fall below the Jokic/Embiid star type. But with a healthy Mitch Robinson, a center who is an offensive threat would probably be a more valuable bench piece if not a more valuable starter in case of injury.

Unfortunately we can't assume Mitch will stay healthy with his history and even as a bench piece i'm not sure how much Thibs would take advantage of Val's offensive skillset. The Knicks' bigs just generally set screens and crash the glass which Jonas would be useful for but i'm not sure how much involvement he would have offensively beyond that.

If he is forced to start due to a Mitch injury I can't see any way his offense would be prioritized over Brunson, Randle, or possibly Mikal's. Then pairing Brunson, Randle and Jonas puts a ton of stress on your defense. New Orleans was able to field a good defense with him on the roster but they probably need to upgrade their center rotation as much or more than the Knicks and they did not keep Jonas around for some reason.

Seeing the similarities between the makeup of the Pelicans and the Knicks makes me feel like the Knicks definitely shouldn't pursue Val if the Pelicans were not desperate to keep him around. I'm not sure why they parted ways but it's not like he signed some huge contract or left for a better situation. It sort of reminds me of when Boston moved on from Kemba and Fournier and the Knicks scooped them up as a "win now" move when the Celtics were trying to win now too and didn't feel the need to keep them.

Picking up ageing offensive minded players has worked out terribly for the Knicks under Thibs. I hope the team stops investing any real assets in these types of players. They don't need another Fournier/Walker/Bogey situation where they commit multiple years, assets and money to players Thibs can't or won't use. I like Val. I don't like Val with Thibs.

[Toine85]

Jonas is a quality rotational center but I am unsure of his fit on the Knicks. The center position has such a small role in Thibs' offense and his impact could be extremely limited on that end. Defensively I don't know how he fits and I worry about pairing him with Randle and Brunson who will both get many minutes.

Just out of curiosity do you prefer Jonas over Kessler? I know you were reluctant to trade the Washington pick for Kessler. Was it the addition of Pacome that bothered you or would you rather have Jonas instead of Kessler? Jonas provides a different skill set than Mitch and Kessler but i'm not sure Thibs would take advantage of it.

Also it's nice to finally see some decent end of bench guys on the Knicks. If they do a 3 for 1 deal I hope they would find some guys that Thibs may actually be willing to play but I don't know who they could pickup in the middle of December after a trade like this.

Edit - Does anyone know if it is legal to temporarily go under the minimum number of players to complete a trade during the season? I never thought about that until now.

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

A team can go under the minimum roster requirements for up to 2 weeks at a time, and 4 weeks total in the season.

The flip side however is that teams can’t go over 15 main roster spots, so Washington would have to waive enough players before the trade to be able to complete it.

I did think about this: It looks like the Wizards have 16 rostered players currently, but Jared Butler has no guaranteed money for the upcoming season. I assume he'll get cut to get the roster down to 15 players when the season starts. Then, I think Anthony Gill would get cut since he has no guaranteed money after this season to get the roster down to 14 players.

At that point, the deal would probably have to be done in two parts:
(1) Trade Keita Bates-Diop for a TPE (from Mike Muscala trade) and then immediately cut/bought out. **This will also get the Knicks below the 1st apron so they can take back 125% in trades. Important for the next part. Also, KBD can be switched for Sims or Cam Payne if it makes more financial sense: I assume the Wiz would want to complete this part with whichever player agrees the best buyout terms. Wiz would still have 14 players rostered at this point.

(2) Trade Precious, WAS 1st rounder, and Jericho Sims (or Cam Payne) for JV. This 2-for-1 trade would get the Wiz to 15 roster spots after all is said and done. Also, 125% of the $8m salary Knicks are sending out means they can take back $10m in salaries (JV is making $9.9m this year).

[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah, I was okay with Pacome and a few meh 2nds for Kessler, but I think adding in the WAS 1st might be a bit too much.

As for the minimum number of players, I was thinking about this as well. Knicks can probably sign a minimum salary guy, then make this trade. As for the Wiz, they can buyout 2 (if not all 3) of the players to fulfill roster requirements.

A team can go under the minimum roster requirements for up to 2 weeks at a time, and 4 weeks total in the season.

The flip side however is that teams can’t go over 15 main roster spots, so Washington would have to waive enough players before the trade to be able to complete it.

I did think about this: It looks like the Wizards have 16 rostered players currently, but Jared Butler has no guaranteed money for the upcoming season. I assume he'll get cut to get the roster down to 15 players. Then, I think Anthony Gill would get cut since he has no guaranteed money after this season to get the roster down to 14 players.

At that point, the deal would probably have to be done in two parts:
(1) Trade Keita Bates-Diop for a TPE (from Mike Muscala trade) and then immediately cut/bought out. **This will also get the Knicks below the 1st apron so they can take back 125% in trades. Important for the next part. Also, KBD can be switched for Sims or Cam Payne if it makes more financial sense: I assume the Wiz would want to complete this part whichever player agrees the best buyout terms.

(2) Trade Precious, WAS 1st rounder, and Jericho Sims (or Cam Payne) for JV. This would get the Wiz to 15 roster spots after all is said and done.

I would imagine the Knicks would prefer to keep their options open and not hard cap themselves at the 1st apron, no? Especially not in a way that costs them a first for Valanciunas?

[Toine85]

A team can go under the minimum roster requirements for up to 2 weeks at a time, and 4 weeks total in the season.

The flip side however is that teams can’t go over 15 main roster spots, so Washington would have to waive enough players before the trade to be able to complete it.

I did think about this: It looks like the Wizards have 16 rostered players currently, but Jared Butler has no guaranteed money for the upcoming season. I assume he'll get cut to get the roster down to 15 players. Then, I think Anthony Gill would get cut since he has no guaranteed money after this season to get the roster down to 14 players.

At that point, the deal would probably have to be done in two parts:
(1) Trade Keita Bates-Diop for a TPE (from Mike Muscala trade) and then immediately cut/bought out. **This will also get the Knicks below the 1st apron so they can take back 125% in trades. Important for the next part. Also, KBD can be switched for Sims or Cam Payne if it makes more financial sense: I assume the Wiz would want to complete this part whichever player agrees the best buyout terms.

(2) Trade Precious, WAS 1st rounder, and Jericho Sims (or Cam Payne) for JV. This would get the Wiz to 15 roster spots after all is said and done.

I would imagine the Knicks would prefer to keep their options open and not hard cap themselves at the 1st apron, no? Especially not in a way that costs them a first for Valanciunas?

From my understanding, it seems like the Knicks are hardcapped above the 1st apron now after signing the rookies. This trade would actually get them back under because in totality they would be sending out $10.6m in salaries and getting back JV's salary of $9.9m. Not sure if you are "un-hardcapped" if you go back under the threshold though. I am not well-versed enough in the CBA to say.

[Toine85]

(a) I'd do this for Washington just for the flexibility of having the pick back though I can see why a real team wouldn't because of all the dead money you would be taking on as you have to cut guaranteed contracts to get down to 15.

(b) I'd certainly value Kessler quite a bit higher than JV due to age and my prioritizing defense over offense for centers who fall below the Jokic/Embiid star type. But with a healthy Mitch Robinson, a center who is an offensive threat would probably be a more valuable bench piece if not a more valuable starter in case of injury.

Unfortunately we can't assume Mitch will stay healthy with his history and even as a bench piece i'm not sure how much Thibs would take advantage of Val's offensive skillset. The Knicks' bigs just generally set screens and crash the glass which Jonas would be useful for but i'm not sure how much involvement he would have offensively beyond that.

If he is forced to start due to a Mitch injury I can't see any way his offense would be prioritized over Brunson, Randle, or possibly Mikal's. Then pairing Brunson, Randle and Jonas puts a ton of stress on your defense. New Orleans was able to field a good defense with him on the roster but they probably need to upgrade their center rotation as much or more than the Knicks and they did not keep Jonas around for some reason.

Seeing the similarities between the makeup of the Pelicans and the Knicks makes me feel like the Knicks definitely shouldn't pursue Val if the Pelicans were not desperate to keep him around. I'm not sure why they parted ways but it's not like he signed some huge contract or left for a better situation. It sort of reminds me of when Boston moved on from Kemba and Fournier and the Knicks scooped them up as a "win now" move when the Celtics were trying to win now too and didn't feel the need to keep them.

Picking up ageing offensive minded players has worked out terribly for the Knicks under Thibs. I hope the team stops investing any real assets in these types of players. They don't need another Fournier/Walker/Bogey situation where they commit multiple years, assets and money to players Thibs can't or won't use. I like Val. I don't like Val with Thibs.

Val's defensive metrics show him to be better than average. Kemba and Fournier were, at best, league average when they came here but had been trending downwards for multiple seasons beforehand. Bogie has always been worse than league average. That's why I don't think Val is comparable to those players mentioned before.

[JayTWill]

(a) I'd do this for Washington just for the flexibility of having the pick back though I can see why a real team wouldn't because of all the dead money you would be taking on as you have to cut guaranteed contracts to get down to 15.

(b) I'd certainly value Kessler quite a bit higher than JV due to age and my prioritizing defense over offense for centers who fall below the Jokic/Embiid star type. But with a healthy Mitch Robinson, a center who is an offensive threat would probably be a more valuable bench piece if not a more valuable starter in case of injury.

Unfortunately we can't assume Mitch will stay healthy with his history and even as a bench piece i'm not sure how much Thibs would take advantage of Val's offensive skillset. The Knicks' bigs just generally set screens and crash the glass which Jonas would be useful for but i'm not sure how much involvement he would have offensively beyond that.

If he is forced to start due to a Mitch injury I can't see any way his offense would be prioritized over Brunson, Randle, or possibly Mikal's. Then pairing Brunson, Randle and Jonas puts a ton of stress on your defense. New Orleans was able to field a good defense with him on the roster but they probably need to upgrade their center rotation as much or more than the Knicks and they did not keep Jonas around for some reason.

Seeing the similarities between the makeup of the Pelicans and the Knicks makes me feel like the Knicks definitely shouldn't pursue Val if the Pelicans were not desperate to keep him around. I'm not sure why they parted ways but it's not like he signed some huge contract or left for a better situation. It sort of reminds me of when Boston moved on from Kemba and Fournier and the Knicks scooped them up as a "win now" move when the Celtics were trying to win now too and didn't feel the need to keep them.

Picking up ageing offensive minded players has worked out terribly for the Knicks under Thibs. I hope the team stops investing any real assets in these types of players. They don't need another Fournier/Walker/Bogey situation where they commit multiple years, assets and money to players Thibs can't or won't use. I like Val. I don't like Val with Thibs.

Val's defensive metrics show him to be better than average. Kemba and Fournier were, at best, league average when they came here but had been trending downwards for multiple seasons beforehand. Bogie has always been worse than league average. That's why I don't think Val is comparable to those players mentioned before.

I just don't see him as the type of big Thibs could use with his lack of mobility and rim protection. Mitch's mobility and rim protection may also be declining. I don't see a reason to double-down on it. I can't say that I know much about his defensive metrics or how much weight I put into them. What would you expect Val's role to be on the team?

I could see him helping on the boards but that is not an area where the team is weak. Defensively he would be way down the list of bigs I would choose. Offensively I can't see what Thibs would do with him. He isn't exactly an offensive mastermind. Some of the struggles of guys like Walker, Fournier and Bogey may be natural ageing and role but some of it may be Thibs' offense. I would hate to go down this road again with him.

I'd rather just keep it simple and give him the type of bigs he seems to prefer and can make use of. High energy, defensive minded rim protectors that can crash the boards. If they can provide anything else on top of that, great but it may be wasted on the Knicks.

[Scoot McGroot]

I did think about this: It looks like the Wizards have 16 rostered players currently, but Jared Butler has no guaranteed money for the upcoming season. I assume he'll get cut to get the roster down to 15 players. Then, I think Anthony Gill would get cut since he has no guaranteed money after this season to get the roster down to 14 players.

At that point, the deal would probably have to be done in two parts:
(1) Trade Keita Bates-Diop for a TPE (from Mike Muscala trade) and then immediately cut/bought out. **This will also get the Knicks below the 1st apron so they can take back 125% in trades. Important for the next part. Also, KBD can be switched for Sims or Cam Payne if it makes more financial sense: I assume the Wiz would want to complete this part whichever player agrees the best buyout terms.

(2) Trade Precious, WAS 1st rounder, and Jericho Sims (or Cam Payne) for JV. This would get the Wiz to 15 roster spots after all is said and done.

I would imagine the Knicks would prefer to keep their options open and not hard cap themselves at the 1st apron, no? Especially not in a way that costs them a first for Valanciunas?

From my understanding, it seems like the Knicks are hardcapped above the 1st apron now after signing the rookies. This trade would actually get them back under because in totality they would be sending out $10.6m in salaries and getting back JV's salary of $9.9m. Not sure if you are "un-hardcapped" if you go back under the threshold though. I am not well-versed enough in the CBA to say.

The Knicks are over the first apron after signing their rookies, but they are not hard capped at the first apron. If they were, they would not have been able to sign the rookies.

A team hard caps itself at a corresponding apron level if they complete a transaction that would otherwise be prohibited to them. Once they incur a hard cap, they are subject to that hard cap for the remainder of that league year (and the following one if the transaction happens after the last day of a regular season and before the rollover of the league year).

Currently, NY is over the first apron, and has a hard cap at the second apron (because they aggregated salary in trade). If the Knicks complete the trade as you suggest, they’d incur a hard cap at he first apron, which would make this deal void, as they’d only have 12 players under contract, needing 14, but be $2+m over the first apron. They NEED to send out all 3 players together, which means Washington has to waive an additional player from their roster before completion of the deal.

[zimpy27]

I think you may have the date wrong, JV wont be trade eligible until Dec 15 correct? Wasnt he a FA signing?

December is correct. Fanspo is repeatedly wrong on this.

Fanspo is wrong on a lot of things. Spotrac is probably the only trustworthy trade machine