Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
- FrodoBaggins
- Sixth Man
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Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Dunks and Threes recently made the top five for each season in its database free to view. I thought I might share them with RealGM. Some interesting names making an appearance. Andrei Kirilenko with a crazy three-year peak from 2004-2006. Anyone aware of the RAPM data knows old-man Stockton would be up there.
2002
1. John Stockton [+4.4 EPM] [+2.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Tim Duncan [+4.2 EPM] [+2.7 off; +1.5 def]
3. Ben Wallace [+3.6 EPM] [-0.2 off; +3.8 def]
4. Paul Pierce [+3.6 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.3 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.5 EPM] [+2.4 off; +1.1 def]
2003
1. Tracy McGrady [+4.3 EPM] [+4.6 off; -0.3 def]
2. Tim Duncan [+4.3 EPM] [+2.5 off; +1.8 def]
3. John Stockton [+3.8 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.5 def]
4. Kevin Garnett [+3.8 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.5 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.6 EPM] [+2.1 off; +1.4 def]
2004
1. Andrei Kirilenko [+4.6 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.4 def]
2. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.3 EPM] [+3.1 off; +1.2 def]
3. Tracy McGrady [+4.1 EPM] [+5.2 off; -1.1 def]
4. Kevin Garnett [+4.0 EPM] [+1.8 off; +2.2 def]
5. Brent Barry [+3.4 EPM] [+2.6 off; +0.8 def]
2005
1. Andrei Kirilenko [+5.1 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.8 def]
2. Kevin Garnett [+4.9 EPM] [+2.9 off; +2.0 def]
3. Manu Ginobili [+4.7 EPM] [+3.0 off; +1.7 def]
4. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.9 EPM] [+2.4 off; +1.4 def]
5. LeBron James [+3.6 EPM] [+3.3 off; +0.3 def]
2006
1. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.6 EPM] [+3.6 off; +1.0 def]
2. Kevin Garnett [+4.5 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.3 def]
3. Manu Ginobili [+4.3 EPM] [+2.8 off; +1.5 def]
4. Andrei Kirilenko [+3.9 EPM] [+1.1 off; +2.9 def]
5. Chris Paul [+3.7 EPM] [+2.2 off; +1.5 def]
2007
1. LeBron James [+4.4 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.2 def]
2. Gilbert Arenas [+4.3 EPM] [+4.5 off; -0.1 def]
3. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.1 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.5 def]
4. Tim Duncan [+4.1 EPM] [+1.9 off; +2.2 def]
5. Chauncey Billups [+3.9 EPM] [+3.5 off; +0.4 def]
2008
1. Chris Paul [+6.2 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.1 def]
2. LeBron James [+4.6 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.4 def]
3. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.4 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
4. Amar'e Stoudemire [+4.3 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
5. Chauncey Billups [+4.1 EPM] [+3.8 off; +0.3 def]
2009
1. LeBron James [+8.2 EPM] [+6.1 off; +2.1 def]
2. Chris Paul [+6.6 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.8 def]
3. Kobe Bryant [+4.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +0.2 def]
4. Dwyane Wade [+4.1 EPM] [+3.7 off; +0.4 def]
5. Dwight Howard [+4.1 EPM] [+1.2 off; +2.9 def]
2010
1. LeBron James [+7.0 EPM] [+5.0 off; +2.0 def]
2. Dwight Howard [+4.8 EPM] [+1.1 off; +3.8 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+4.4 EPM] [+3.4 off; +1.0 def]
4. Chris Paul [+4.4 EPM] [+3.1 off; +1.3 def]
5. Dwyane Wade [+4.4 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
2011
1. Chris Paul [+5.9 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.8 def]
2. LeBron James [+4.9 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.7 def]
3. Dwight Howard [+4.7 EPM] [+1.3 off; +3.5 def]
4. Manu Ginobili [+4.7 EPM] [+3.5 off; +1.2 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.4 EPM] [+3.3 off; +1.0 def]
2012
1. LeBron James [+6.6 EPM] [+5.0 off; +1.6 def]
2. Chris Paul [+5.7 EPM] [+4.2 off; +1.5 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+4.2 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.0 def]
4. Dwight Howard [+4.0 EPM] [+1.0 off; +3.0 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.8 EPM] [+3.2 off; +0.6 def]
2013
1. Chris Paul [+6.3 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.2 def]
2. LeBron James [+6.2 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.1 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+5.8 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.6 def]
4. James Harden [+4.1 EPM] [+4.1 off; +0.1 def]
5. Mike Conley [+4.0 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.7 def]
2014
1. Chris Paul [+6.5 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.6 def]
2. LeBron James [+5.5 EPM] [+4.6 off; +0.9 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+5.2 EPM] [+4.4 off; +0.8 def]
4. Stephen Curry [+4.7 EPM] [+4.4 off; +0.3 def]
5. Kevin Love [+4.5 EPM] [+4.7 off; -0.3 def]
2015
1. LeBron James [+6.5 EPM] [+5.3 off; +1.2 def]
2. Chris Paul [+6.4 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.0 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.2 EPM] [+5.3 off; +0.9 def]
4. Anthony Davis [+5.4 EPM] [+3.1 off; +2.4 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.3 EPM] [+2.3 off; +3.0 def]
2016
1. Chris Paul [+7.4 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Stephen Curry [+7.1 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.1 def]
3. Kawhi Leonard [+6.9 EPM] [+3.8 off; +3.1 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.7 EPM] [+5.2 off; +1.5 def]
5. Russell Westbrook [+5.3 EPM] [+5.0 off; +0.3 def]
2017
1. Stephen Curry [+7.9 EPM] [+6.9 off; +1.0 def]
2. Kawhi Leonard [+7.8 EPM] [+5.5 off; +2.3 def]
3. Chris Paul [+7.3 EPM] [+5.6 off; +1.7 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.7 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.3 def]
5. Russell Westbrook [+6.5 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.1 def]
2018
1. Stephen Curry [+7.3 EPM] [+6.5 off; +0.8 def]
2. James Harden [+7.0 EPM] [+5.8 off; +1.1 def]
3. LeBron James [+6.4 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.4 def]
4. Chris Paul [+6.4 EPM] [+4.7 off; +1.7 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.9 EPM] [+4.4 off; +1.5 def]
2019
1. James Harden [+7.4 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Stephen Curry [+6.6 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.5 def]
3. Nikola Jokic [+6.2 EPM] [+4.1 off; +2.1 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+6.2 EPM] [+2.7 off; +3.5 off]
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.9 EPM] [+3.4 off; +2.5 def]
2020
1. James Harden [+7.3 EPM] [+5.6 off; +1.7 def]
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+7.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +3.2 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.9 EPM] [+7.0 off; -0.1 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.5 EPM] [+4.3 off; +2.3 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+6.5 EPM] [+4.6 off; +1.8 def]
2021
1. Stephen Curry [+7.6 EPM] [+7.8 off; -0.3 def]
2. Nikola Jokic [+6.5 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.4 def]
3. Kawhi Leonard [+6.3 EPM] [+4.9 off; +1.4 def]
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+6.0 EPM] [+3.5 off; +2.6 def]
5. Joel Embiid [+6.0 EPM] [+3.6 off; +2.4 def]
2022
1. Nikola Jokic [+7.5 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+7.0 EPM] [+4.8 off; +2.2 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.3 EPM] [+5.0 off; +1.3 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+5.3 EPM] [+3.0 off; +2.3 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +1.2 def]
2023
1. Nikola Jokic [+8.2 EPM] [+6.5 off; +1.8 def]
2. Damian Lillard [+6.3 EPM] [+7.5 off; -1.2 def]
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.8 EPM] [+4.2 off; +1.6 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+5.7 EPM] [+3.7 off; +2.0 def]
5. Jayson Tatum [+5.7 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.6 def]
2024
1. Nikola Jokic [+8.1 EPM] [+6.6 off; +1.5 def]
2. Joel Embiid [+7.3 EPM] [+4.8 off; +2.5 def]
3. Luka Doncic [+6.1 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.0 def]
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.9 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.2 def]
5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander [+5.8 EPM] [+4.5 off; +1.3 def]
2002
1. John Stockton [+4.4 EPM] [+2.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Tim Duncan [+4.2 EPM] [+2.7 off; +1.5 def]
3. Ben Wallace [+3.6 EPM] [-0.2 off; +3.8 def]
4. Paul Pierce [+3.6 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.3 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.5 EPM] [+2.4 off; +1.1 def]
2003
1. Tracy McGrady [+4.3 EPM] [+4.6 off; -0.3 def]
2. Tim Duncan [+4.3 EPM] [+2.5 off; +1.8 def]
3. John Stockton [+3.8 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.5 def]
4. Kevin Garnett [+3.8 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.5 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.6 EPM] [+2.1 off; +1.4 def]
2004
1. Andrei Kirilenko [+4.6 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.4 def]
2. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.3 EPM] [+3.1 off; +1.2 def]
3. Tracy McGrady [+4.1 EPM] [+5.2 off; -1.1 def]
4. Kevin Garnett [+4.0 EPM] [+1.8 off; +2.2 def]
5. Brent Barry [+3.4 EPM] [+2.6 off; +0.8 def]
2005
1. Andrei Kirilenko [+5.1 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.8 def]
2. Kevin Garnett [+4.9 EPM] [+2.9 off; +2.0 def]
3. Manu Ginobili [+4.7 EPM] [+3.0 off; +1.7 def]
4. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.9 EPM] [+2.4 off; +1.4 def]
5. LeBron James [+3.6 EPM] [+3.3 off; +0.3 def]
2006
1. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.6 EPM] [+3.6 off; +1.0 def]
2. Kevin Garnett [+4.5 EPM] [+2.3 off; +2.3 def]
3. Manu Ginobili [+4.3 EPM] [+2.8 off; +1.5 def]
4. Andrei Kirilenko [+3.9 EPM] [+1.1 off; +2.9 def]
5. Chris Paul [+3.7 EPM] [+2.2 off; +1.5 def]
2007
1. LeBron James [+4.4 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.2 def]
2. Gilbert Arenas [+4.3 EPM] [+4.5 off; -0.1 def]
3. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.1 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.5 def]
4. Tim Duncan [+4.1 EPM] [+1.9 off; +2.2 def]
5. Chauncey Billups [+3.9 EPM] [+3.5 off; +0.4 def]
2008
1. Chris Paul [+6.2 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.1 def]
2. LeBron James [+4.6 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.4 def]
3. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.4 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
4. Amar'e Stoudemire [+4.3 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
5. Chauncey Billups [+4.1 EPM] [+3.8 off; +0.3 def]
2009
1. LeBron James [+8.2 EPM] [+6.1 off; +2.1 def]
2. Chris Paul [+6.6 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.8 def]
3. Kobe Bryant [+4.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +0.2 def]
4. Dwyane Wade [+4.1 EPM] [+3.7 off; +0.4 def]
5. Dwight Howard [+4.1 EPM] [+1.2 off; +2.9 def]
2010
1. LeBron James [+7.0 EPM] [+5.0 off; +2.0 def]
2. Dwight Howard [+4.8 EPM] [+1.1 off; +3.8 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+4.4 EPM] [+3.4 off; +1.0 def]
4. Chris Paul [+4.4 EPM] [+3.1 off; +1.3 def]
5. Dwyane Wade [+4.4 EPM] [+3.6 off; +0.7 def]
2011
1. Chris Paul [+5.9 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.8 def]
2. LeBron James [+4.9 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.7 def]
3. Dwight Howard [+4.7 EPM] [+1.3 off; +3.5 def]
4. Manu Ginobili [+4.7 EPM] [+3.5 off; +1.2 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+4.4 EPM] [+3.3 off; +1.0 def]
2012
1. LeBron James [+6.6 EPM] [+5.0 off; +1.6 def]
2. Chris Paul [+5.7 EPM] [+4.2 off; +1.5 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+4.2 EPM] [+3.2 off; +1.0 def]
4. Dwight Howard [+4.0 EPM] [+1.0 off; +3.0 def]
5. Dirk Nowitzki [+3.8 EPM] [+3.2 off; +0.6 def]
2013
1. Chris Paul [+6.3 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.2 def]
2. LeBron James [+6.2 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.1 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+5.8 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.6 def]
4. James Harden [+4.1 EPM] [+4.1 off; +0.1 def]
5. Mike Conley [+4.0 EPM] [+2.3 off; +1.7 def]
2014
1. Chris Paul [+6.5 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.6 def]
2. LeBron James [+5.5 EPM] [+4.6 off; +0.9 def]
3. Kevin Durant [+5.2 EPM] [+4.4 off; +0.8 def]
4. Stephen Curry [+4.7 EPM] [+4.4 off; +0.3 def]
5. Kevin Love [+4.5 EPM] [+4.7 off; -0.3 def]
2015
1. LeBron James [+6.5 EPM] [+5.3 off; +1.2 def]
2. Chris Paul [+6.4 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.0 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.2 EPM] [+5.3 off; +0.9 def]
4. Anthony Davis [+5.4 EPM] [+3.1 off; +2.4 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.3 EPM] [+2.3 off; +3.0 def]
2016
1. Chris Paul [+7.4 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Stephen Curry [+7.1 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.1 def]
3. Kawhi Leonard [+6.9 EPM] [+3.8 off; +3.1 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.7 EPM] [+5.2 off; +1.5 def]
5. Russell Westbrook [+5.3 EPM] [+5.0 off; +0.3 def]
2017
1. Stephen Curry [+7.9 EPM] [+6.9 off; +1.0 def]
2. Kawhi Leonard [+7.8 EPM] [+5.5 off; +2.3 def]
3. Chris Paul [+7.3 EPM] [+5.6 off; +1.7 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.7 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.3 def]
5. Russell Westbrook [+6.5 EPM] [+5.4 off; +1.1 def]
2018
1. Stephen Curry [+7.3 EPM] [+6.5 off; +0.8 def]
2. James Harden [+7.0 EPM] [+5.8 off; +1.1 def]
3. LeBron James [+6.4 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.4 def]
4. Chris Paul [+6.4 EPM] [+4.7 off; +1.7 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.9 EPM] [+4.4 off; +1.5 def]
2019
1. James Harden [+7.4 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Stephen Curry [+6.6 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.5 def]
3. Nikola Jokic [+6.2 EPM] [+4.1 off; +2.1 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+6.2 EPM] [+2.7 off; +3.5 off]
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.9 EPM] [+3.4 off; +2.5 def]
2020
1. James Harden [+7.3 EPM] [+5.6 off; +1.7 def]
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+7.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +3.2 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.9 EPM] [+7.0 off; -0.1 def]
4. LeBron James [+6.5 EPM] [+4.3 off; +2.3 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+6.5 EPM] [+4.6 off; +1.8 def]
2021
1. Stephen Curry [+7.6 EPM] [+7.8 off; -0.3 def]
2. Nikola Jokic [+6.5 EPM] [+6.1 off; +0.4 def]
3. Kawhi Leonard [+6.3 EPM] [+4.9 off; +1.4 def]
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+6.0 EPM] [+3.5 off; +2.6 def]
5. Joel Embiid [+6.0 EPM] [+3.6 off; +2.4 def]
2022
1. Nikola Jokic [+7.5 EPM] [+5.9 off; +1.5 def]
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+7.0 EPM] [+4.8 off; +2.2 def]
3. Stephen Curry [+6.3 EPM] [+5.0 off; +1.3 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+5.3 EPM] [+3.0 off; +2.3 def]
5. Kawhi Leonard [+5.2 EPM] [+4.0 off; +1.2 def]
2023
1. Nikola Jokic [+8.2 EPM] [+6.5 off; +1.8 def]
2. Damian Lillard [+6.3 EPM] [+7.5 off; -1.2 def]
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.8 EPM] [+4.2 off; +1.6 def]
4. Joel Embiid [+5.7 EPM] [+3.7 off; +2.0 def]
5. Jayson Tatum [+5.7 EPM] [+4.1 off; +1.6 def]
2024
1. Nikola Jokic [+8.1 EPM] [+6.6 off; +1.5 def]
2. Joel Embiid [+7.3 EPM] [+4.8 off; +2.5 def]
3. Luka Doncic [+6.1 EPM] [+5.1 off; +1.0 def]
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo [+5.9 EPM] [+4.8 off; +1.2 def]
5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander [+5.8 EPM] [+4.5 off; +1.3 def]
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Thanks for sharing, good to look back at Dirk in the 00s, top 5 every year from 2001 to 2008 and of course the ring season in 11.
CP3 is maybe the unluckiest star in the league, maybe the most impactful player to never win MVP.
CP3 is maybe the unluckiest star in the league, maybe the most impactful player to never win MVP.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
As expected dominant offensive small guards with bad defense (Steph, Dame, Arenas) made it despite negative defensive EPM, but the only negative offensive player to make it is Ben Wallace, testament to how game changing his defense was...
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Pure point guards who can shoot and defend are clearly favored by EPM. Both Stockton and Paul look great.
Kirilenko's prime is so underrated because he fell off so quickly. A monster all-arounder. Could've been an improved version of Draymond Green in the right system. I love defenders who get stocks like madmen so he's a favorite of mine.
Kirilenko's prime is so underrated because he fell off so quickly. A monster all-arounder. Could've been an improved version of Draymond Green in the right system. I love defenders who get stocks like madmen so he's a favorite of mine.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Kobe/Doncic/Duncan doesnt shine in these stats and Lebron/Paul/Jokic/Curry dominate.
1st T Jokic/Lebron 8.2
3rd Jokic 8.1
4th Curry 7.9
5th Kawhi 7.8
6th Curry 7.6
7th Jokic 7.5
8th T Harden/Paul 7.4
9th T Curry/Embiid/Harden 7.3
1st T Jokic/Lebron 8.2
3rd Jokic 8.1
4th Curry 7.9
5th Kawhi 7.8
6th Curry 7.6
7th Jokic 7.5
8th T Harden/Paul 7.4
9th T Curry/Embiid/Harden 7.3
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
SpreeS wrote:Kobe/Doncic/Duncan doesnt shine in these stats and Lebron/Paul/Jokic/Curry dominate.
1st T Jokic/Lebron 8.2
3rd Jokic 8.1
4th Curry 7.9
5th Kawhi 7.8
6th Curry 7.6
7th Jokic 7.5
8th T Harden/Paul 7.4
9th T Curry/Embiid/Harden 7.3
He may not shine in it, but since they started tracking possessions, find me a single player age 25 or younger with higher EPM than Luka Doncic at age 25 (6.1), including "shiny" Steph Curry.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
I think Chris Paul is going to be the singular most underrated/hard to rank player of the 2000s. MVP level peak and almost unheard of consistency, mixed with a checkered playoff resume.
People forget the athleticism he used to have as well.
People forget the athleticism he used to have as well.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Also, I think, more and more, that 2009 LBJ was the best regular season of my entire life.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Mavrelous wrote:As expected dominant offensive small guards with bad defense (Steph, Dame, Arenas) made it despite negative defensive EPM, but the only negative offensive player to make it is Ben Wallace, testament to how game changing his defense was...
Lilliard only appears once though, he’s never been a consistent winning factor outside his one Conference Finals run.
I wouldn’t lump Steph in with “bad defenders.” Sure he has his lulls, specifically without Draymond in uniform, but he rebounds very well for his “position,” was tasked with guarding LeBron 1v1 in a Finals for way more possessions than one would expect (and did okay), communicates very well, has a steals title, and 10 seasons of neutral or plus defensive boxes.
I’m more surprised at Arenas’ appearance than Brent Barry’s. Arenas was always ass IMO.
Anyone who craps on CP3 ‘s career I can’t talk basketball with.
Kirilenko seems to be the unanimous “what if he played in this era?” player here. He was unique no question. Josh Smith, when he actually used his brain, was a poor man’s version.
As much of an advanced metric proponent as I am I throw them straight in the garbage when it comes to Durant, Westbrook, and Rockets Harden. I despise high usage players who don’t screen, cut, or lead defensively outside of Luka.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
benhillboy wrote:Mavrelous wrote:As expected dominant offensive small guards with bad defense (Steph, Dame, Arenas) made it despite negative defensive EPM, but the only negative offensive player to make it is Ben Wallace, testament to how game changing his defense was...
Lilliard only appears once though, he’s never been a consistent winning factor outside his one Conference Finals run.
I wouldn’t lump Steph in with “bad defenders.” Sure he has his lulls, specifically without Draymond in uniform, but he rebounds very well for his “position,” was tasked with guarding LeBron 1v1 in a Finals for way more possessions than one would expect (and did okay), communicates very well, has a steals title, and 10 seasons of neutral or plus defensive boxes.
I’m more surprised at Arenas’ appearance than Brent Barry’s. Arenas was always ass IMO.
Anyone who craps on CP3 ‘s career I can’t talk basketball with.
Kirilenko seems to be the unanimous “what if he played in this era?” player here. He was unique no question. Josh Smith, when he actually used his brain, was a poor man’s version.
He's had negative defensive EPM, the stat is flawed, but if we're using it to praise the player, we should use it also for his shortcomings

Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
- TheWitcher
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Prime CP3 was just so damn good.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Interesting, can anyone remind me what EPM does different from RAPM? 2008 CP3 for example feels off a lot from memory. I recall his 08 and 09 seasons having a RAPM that deviated more than expected from BPM/PER/WS type metrics. A few other notable differences. Duncan in 07 seems lower but perhaps the stats I've seen included playoffs? Same with 08 KG.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Mavrelous wrote:benhillboy wrote:Mavrelous wrote:As expected dominant offensive small guards with bad defense (Steph, Dame, Arenas) made it despite negative defensive EPM, but the only negative offensive player to make it is Ben Wallace, testament to how game changing his defense was...
Lilliard only appears once though, he’s never been a consistent winning factor outside his one Conference Finals run.
I wouldn’t lump Steph in with “bad defenders.” Sure he has his lulls, specifically without Draymond in uniform, but he rebounds very well for his “position,” was tasked with guarding LeBron 1v1 in a Finals for way more possessions than one would expect (and did okay), communicates very well, has a steals title, and 10 seasons of neutral or plus defensive boxes.
I’m more surprised at Arenas’ appearance than Brent Barry’s. Arenas was always ass IMO.
Anyone who craps on CP3 ‘s career I can’t talk basketball with.
Kirilenko seems to be the unanimous “what if he played in this era?” player here. He was unique no question. Josh Smith, when he actually used his brain, was a poor man’s version.
He's had negative defensive EPM, the stat is flawed, but if we're using it to praise the player, we should use it also for his shortcomings
The question would be better asked what is the league average and what's replacement level on these. For example a -2 BPM is a 0 VORP. So you can still add value as a negative.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
dhsilv2 wrote:Mavrelous wrote:benhillboy wrote:Lilliard only appears once though, he’s never been a consistent winning factor outside his one Conference Finals run.
I wouldn’t lump Steph in with “bad defenders.” Sure he has his lulls, specifically without Draymond in uniform, but he rebounds very well for his “position,” was tasked with guarding LeBron 1v1 in a Finals for way more possessions than one would expect (and did okay), communicates very well, has a steals title, and 10 seasons of neutral or plus defensive boxes.
I’m more surprised at Arenas’ appearance than Brent Barry’s. Arenas was always ass IMO.
Anyone who craps on CP3 ‘s career I can’t talk basketball with.
Kirilenko seems to be the unanimous “what if he played in this era?” player here. He was unique no question. Josh Smith, when he actually used his brain, was a poor man’s version.
He's had negative defensive EPM, the stat is flawed, but if we're using it to praise the player, we should use it also for his shortcomings
The question would be better asked what is the league average and what's replacement level on these. For example a -2 BPM is a 0 VORP. So you can still add value as a negative.
It doesn't mean you add value as a negative, it means you have more value than replacement level player, which is a different thing.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
Mavrelous wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
He's had negative defensive EPM, the stat is flawed, but if we're using it to praise the player, we should use it also for his shortcomings
The question would be better asked what is the league average and what's replacement level on these. For example a -2 BPM is a 0 VORP. So you can still add value as a negative.
It doesn't mean you add value as a negative, it means you have more value than replacement level player, which is a different thing.
Fair enough. Though that's a "generic" replacement level player. If we assume most teams still need a primary ball handler, I'm going out the on the limb and saying most would fall in the negative defensively and that "replacement level defense" is noticeably lower as a cohort.
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
CP3 is literally on his death bed and fourth in minutes played for the Spurs, who have a 108 offensive rating to 107 defensive rating. His individual ratings are 130 to 109.
The man is a hoopin sorcerer. John Stockton reincarnated as a Black man with much better communication skills
The man is a hoopin sorcerer. John Stockton reincarnated as a Black man with much better communication skills

Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
dhsilv2 wrote:Mavrelous wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:
The question would be better asked what is the league average and what's replacement level on these. For example a -2 BPM is a 0 VORP. So you can still add value as a negative.
It doesn't mean you add value as a negative, it means you have more value than replacement level player, which is a different thing.
Fair enough. Though that's a "generic" replacement level player. If we assume most teams still need a primary ball handler, I'm going out the on the limb and saying most would fall in the negative defensively and that "replacement level defense" is noticeably lower as a cohort.
CP3 wasn't a negative in his prime, but yes, primary offensive small guards tend to be negative defender, you can replace them with + defenders and lose a lot of net rating, that's exactly the point of the original comment, similarly, defensive rim protecting bigs, most times are negative offensive players, but their net contribution is much higher, it is however much much rarer for the latter to pop up on EPM than the former, which makes Ben Wallace very special phenomena.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
- FrodoBaggins
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Re: Top 5 in EPM for every season from 2002-2024
I'd caution comparing numbers across years. There's a reason why the more recent seasons have higher figures and it's not because they're simply better players. There's definitely an era component here; a slower-paced, more defensive league ecosystem will no doubt suppress numbers. It also prioritizes and empowers certain skills and types of players over others.