Randle to Chicago, Stewart/Giddey to Minn

[jayjaysee]

Just some bad ideas, with probable bad valuations.

Chicago: Vucevic, Giddey, Duarte, Carter
Chicago: Randle, Moore, Klintman, Dozier

Chicago sends out enough salary to stay under the tax, getting the younger big and continuing the play-in chase with Zach/Coby for whatever reason.

Detroit: Stewart, Moore, Klintman
Detroit: Vucevic, Carter, Duarte, 2025 Det first

Detroit moves on from the young fan favorite but gets a first that would have very likely conveyed in the late lottery/early teens in the next 3 years. Get Vuc as a nice vet center to help the kids push for the play-in the next two years.

Minnesota: Randle, Dozier, 2025 Det first
Minnesota: Giddey, Stewart

Minnesota ends the KAT trade early. Give Naz the starting job, Stewart a great third big and hopefully continues to develop on the affordable contract. Giddey turns into the second unit creator, playing some minutes with Ant. They go for fit versus talent here.. Also saves something like 40 million dollars this year?

Seconds to your team fix it? L

[winforlose]

Just some bad ideas, with probable bad valuations.

Chicago: Vucevic, Giddey, Duarte, Carter
Chicago: Randle, Moore, Klintman, Dozier

Chicago sends out enough salary to stay under the tax, getting the younger big and continuing the play-in chase with Zach/Coby for whatever reason.

Detroit: Stewart, Moore, Klintman
Detroit: Vucevic, Carter, Duarte, 2025 Det first

Detroit moves on from the young fan favorite but gets a first that would have very likely conveyed in the late lottery/early teens in the next 3 years. Get Vuc as a nice vet center to help the kids push for the play-in the next two years.

Minnesota: Randle, Dozier, 2025 Det first
Minnesota: Giddey, Stewart

Minnesota ends the KAT trade early. Give Naz the starting job, Stewart a great third big and hopefully continues to develop on the affordable contract. Giddey turns into the second unit creator, playing some minutes with Ant. They go for fit versus talent here.. Also saves something like 40 million dollars this year?

Seconds to your team fix it? L

From the Minnesota side of it, Beef Stew isn’t bad, but he isn’t good for the money either. The issue is the other side of the deal. We would need Giddey to go somewhere else. Putting aside the off the court stuff, he isn’t a consistent floor spacer. With Rudy playing the offense needs floor spacers, especially in the playoffs.

[oldncreaky]

I wouldn't mind getting DET's conditional FRP back. Valuation might be fair in a vacuum.

But as soon as I see a trade where DET is sending out talent, rather than simply using their leverage as the league's best dumping ground for unwanted contracts, I know it doesn't fit the direction I want for the team. We are offering space -- tons of it -- for draft compensation and/or young players on their rookie contracts. I'd be willing to part with vets on expiring contracts (THJ $16M, Beasley $6M) to make the numbers work, but I'm not interested in ponying up young players on multi-year contracts for win-now moves.

If the rest of your trade falls apart because it needs Detroit's talent (Beef Stew) to entice another team, that's a sign that the trade should be a firm "no" for DET.

[jayjaysee]

Just some bad ideas, with probable bad valuations.

Chicago: Vucevic, Giddey, Duarte, Carter
Chicago: Randle, Moore, Klintman, Dozier

Chicago sends out enough salary to stay under the tax, getting the younger big and continuing the play-in chase with Zach/Coby for whatever reason.

Detroit: Stewart, Moore, Klintman
Detroit: Vucevic, Carter, Duarte, 2025 Det first

Detroit moves on from the young fan favorite but gets a first that would have very likely conveyed in the late lottery/early teens in the next 3 years. Get Vuc as a nice vet center to help the kids push for the play-in the next two years.

Minnesota: Randle, Dozier, 2025 Det first
Minnesota: Giddey, Stewart

Minnesota ends the KAT trade early. Give Naz the starting job, Stewart a great third big and hopefully continues to develop on the affordable contract. Giddey turns into the second unit creator, playing some minutes with Ant. They go for fit versus talent here.. Also saves something like 40 million dollars this year?

Seconds to your team fix it? L

From the Minnesota side of it, Beef Stew isn’t bad, but he isn’t good for the money either. The issue is the other side of the deal. We would need Giddey to go somewhere else. Putting aside the off the court stuff, he isn’t a consistent floor spacer. With Rudy playing the offense needs floor spacers, especially in the playoffs.

I think Stewart is really good value for his money considering he is only 23? Given the changes in his role in Det this season, I don’t care that he’s only scoring 6 PPG. Scores efficiently and has a track record of being a good enough spacing big that defenses have to respect him, while also playing on the other side..

And Giddey. The off court stuff.. I know some feel really strongly on it, despite when details started coming out it looked less and less like what it was initially called.. but this is not the place for it at all.

Giddey does need to work on his shot and hopefully will. But if he was a good three point shooter, the rest of his offense would get him paid a lot more than he projects to get. But I still think he’s 10-15 pounds away from being a point forward at the four and his mediocre three looks a lot better if you call him that versus a point guard..

[ChettheJet]

The Bulls end up with Coby White playing PG and the reason they got Giddey for Caruso was, drumroll please, to play PG.

There is no way any team can survive with Lavine and Randle on the floor, two black holes mean the other 3 never see the ball with more than 10 seconds left. Zach is going to work to take his shot, Randle if he doesn't get the shot he wants with 5 seconds left dumps the ball to someone else and they have to force the shot up. 3 nobodies to get released doesn't help nt to mention the Bulls are left with Smith as their only center. Do people just have short attention sans when making up these trades to see what the Bulls are left with?

[jayjaysee]

I wouldn't mind getting DET's conditional FRP back. Valuation might be fair in a vacuum.

If the rest of your trade falls apart because it needs Detroit's talent (Beef Stew) to entice another team, that's a sign that the trade should be a firm "no" for DET.

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of it as getting DET’s own first back. At this point, I expect Minnesota to get it next year, if not this year.. This is trading Stewart for a likely early teens pick in 2026 IMO.. But it does also free up the ability to trade picks this offseason if Det wants to get aggressive..

ignoring Vuc being included really impacts the outlook for Det though. They get better (at least Imo) short term and get a first for the loss of the long term piece.

[winforlose]

The Bulls end up with Coby White playing PG and the reason they got Giddey for Caruso was, drumroll please, to play PG.

There is no way any team can survive with Lavine and Randle on the floor, two black holes mean the other 3 never see the ball with more than 10 seconds left. Zach is going to work to take his shot, Randle if he doesn't get the shot he wants with 5 seconds left dumps the ball to someone else and they have to force the shot up. 3 nobodies to get released doesn't help nt to mention the Bulls are left with Smith as their only center. Do people just have short attention sans when making up these trades to see what the Bulls are left with?

Isn’t White also a PG? I mean I know his shot makes him more a combo guard, but his AST/TO is still around 2 to 1.

[jayjaysee]

The Bulls end up with Coby White playing PG and the reason they got Giddey for Caruso was, drumroll please, to play PG.

There is no way any team can survive with Lavine and Randle on the floor, two black holes mean the other 3 never see the ball with more than 10 seconds left. Zach is going to work to take his shot, Randle if he doesn't get the shot he wants with 5 seconds left dumps the ball to someone else and they have to force the shot up. 3 nobodies to get released doesn't help nt to mention the Bulls are left with Smith as their only center. Do people just have short attention sans when making up these trades to see what the Bulls are left with?

So Randle and LaVine will control the ball the entire shot clock, but Giddey not being on the team to be the PG is the problem?

If you feel the two vets are going to do that, all they need is a guard that can sit and wait for Randle to dump it off? Coby can’t do that in your opinion? Ayo?

The arguments don’t really go together.

And finding a backup center isn’t very difficult. Portland has a few on the trading block all season. Charlotte has one. Brooklyn has one. Toronto, Washington, etc.

I tend not to waste time making trades all inclusive. Have faith in teams being able to make a small follow up deal if the main part of the deal makes sense. If you feel the deal needs to include a fourth team sending a 20mpg center to Chicago, that is easy to do. Or you can include Luka Garza and that would count as something I guess.

[oldncreaky]

I wouldn't mind getting DET's conditional FRP back. Valuation might be fair in a vacuum.

If the rest of your trade falls apart because it needs Detroit's talent (Beef Stew) to entice another team, that's a sign that the trade should be a firm "no" for DET.

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of it as getting DET’s own first back. At this point, I expect Minnesota to get it next year, if not this year.. This is trading Stewart for a likely early teens pick in 2026 IMO.. But it does also free up the ability to trade picks this offseason if Det wants to get aggressive..

ignoring Vuc being included really impacts the outlook for Det though. They get better (at least Imo) short term and get a first for the loss of the long term piece.

That's the thing: if we want to get better in the short term, maybe give Cade a taste of the play-in, the last thing I'd want to do is send out a rotation piece. We have $44M in space under the tax line this year, and can take back roughly $40M in salary for next season as well. If I send out Beef Stew or an expiring THJ, those numbers are $59-60M this season, and $55M next -- a ton of room to receive in unwanted contracts, or good-but-overpaid vets, with the appropriate bribe of draft compensation.

Also, Beef Stew usually closes when we are in a close game and he isn't in foul trouble, and I'm not sure Vucevic could even fill that role even though he is a much better player overall.

Vucevic for Beasley or THJ I'd consider; but I'd still want to use up the $14M under the cap in accepting a pure salary dump first, before using up the remaining $30M in space under the tax line.

[cgf]

The Bulls end up with Coby White playing PG and the reason they got Giddey for Caruso was, drumroll please, to play PG.

There is no way any team can survive with Lavine and Randle on the floor, two black holes mean the other 3 never see the ball with more than 10 seconds left. Zach is going to work to take his shot, Randle if he doesn't get the shot he wants with 5 seconds left dumps the ball to someone else and they have to force the shot up. 3 nobodies to get released doesn't help nt to mention the Bulls are left with Smith as their only center. Do people just have short attention sans when making up these trades to see what the Bulls are left with?

Do people think that if they keep saying Randle takes forever on the ball it’ll be true, or do they just make comments like that without actually looking at avg touch times?

[Dez]

This is ban worthy.

F*** no from Chicago.

[babyjax13]

I think the value is probably fine, but I question the direction and fit for every team. Minnesota already has some issues with spacing, which Giddey compounds. Chicago should be moving older players for younger players and assets, not the reverse. Detroit probably shouldn't get the first back, but it's the piece that makes the most sense. I actually think cutting Minnesota out could result in an interesting deal.

[wolves_89]

I don't see the Wolves having any interest in Giddey or giving up a 1st to move Randle. If the 1st is included, there would need to be a much better player than Stewart coming back. This doesn't make a lot of sense for Minnesota in terms of both fit and value.

[shrink]

I wouldn't mind getting DET's conditional FRP back. Valuation might be fair in a vacuum.

But as soon as I see a trade where DET is sending out talent, rather than simply using their leverage as the league's best dumping ground for unwanted contracts, I know it doesn't fit the direction I want for the team. We are offering space -- tons of it -- for draft compensation and/or young players on their rookie contracts. I'd be willing to part with vets on expiring contracts (THJ $16M, Beasley $6M) to make the numbers work, but I'm not interested in ponying up young players on multi-year contracts for win-now moves.

The difference here is that getting back the DET pick has particular value to DET. First, getting wins can be fully appreciated, without the thought that every win increases the chances that MIN takes your pick. Second, reclaiming the pick gives DET the option to trade it again, with whatever protections they want. These types of picks have extra value if they get back to their original team, who has some control of where the team finishes the season, and what the pick is worth.

MIN doesn’t really have need to salary dump anyone.