Myles Turner value this summer

[8305]

It appears the Pacers are all in on resigning Myles Turner this summer. Best case scenario I think he resigns for about 4 years at 25-30 mil/yr. The question, will the rest of the league allow the Pacers to get away this? Is there a team with the desire and cap space to push Indiana higher?

Assuming Pacers are able to resign Turner they will likely need to reduce salary. Most see the Topoin contract as the likely one to be moved. Is there a market for this contract? Once again Pacers would like to take back minimal salary in this transaction.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Most teams don't have cap space, which is a benefit to the Pacers.

My guess is we tell Myles what we will offer him and put it on the table. We then give him the ability to shop around and see if a team can exceed that amount in some sort of S+T offer. If they can and he truly wants to leave, it gives us the opportunity to work with that team about a S+T and any potential value we can get.

It's a win-win for both parties.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Kind of have a hard time free agency being what it use to be. restricted trade rules like removing the 125% matching and apron rules takes a lot of teams out of free agency.

Use to be able to salary dump your way into free agency or take advantage of matching rules in sign and trades. Now only two teams max likely have cap space.

For players, means they are are losing a negotiation advantage and will have smaller annual amounts imo.

[giberish]

Next summer really only the Nets have cap space. So if they're still looking at Claxton as their starting center than Indy should be safe (if there's talk that the Nets are looking to move Claxton for help at another position and then sign a FA center than Indy should worry).

Next summer looks to have very little cap space available around the league (and a pretty limited number of notable FA's).

[Scoot McGroot]

Kind of have a hard time free agency being what it use to be. restricted trade rules like removing the 125% matching and apron rules takes a lot of teams out of free agency.

Use to be able to salary dump your way into free agency or take advantage of matching rules in sign and trades. Now only two teams max likely have cap space.

For players, means they are are losing a negotiation advantage and will have smaller annual amounts imo.

Why? Lots of teams that have no interest in going into the aprons may be willing to take on some salary. We just saw a record trade deadline and somehow not all the teams involved matched at 100%.

[Scoot McGroot]

Next summer really only the Nets have cap space. So if they're still looking at Claxton as their starting center than Indy should be safe (if there's talk that the Nets are looking to move Claxton for help at another position and then sign a FA center than Indy should worry).

Next summer looks to have very little cap space available around the league (and a pretty limited number of notable FA's).

I think there’s a lot of teams that could make make small loves and get there. Hypothetically, Detroit could move a small salary. Atlanta could move a contract. Lots of teams could make sign and trade offers of just a little salary to be able to give Myles close to $30m.

Sure, Brooklyn is the only team with cap space right now, but a lot of teams could position themselves to threaten with small moves at the draft or this summer.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Kind of have a hard time free agency being what it use to be. restricted trade rules like removing the 125% matching and apron rules takes a lot of teams out of free agency.

Use to be able to salary dump your way into free agency or take advantage of matching rules in sign and trades. Now only two teams max likely have cap space.

For players, means they are are losing a negotiation advantage and will have smaller annual amounts imo.

Why? Lots of teams that have no interest in going into the aprons may be willing to take on some salary. We just saw a record trade deadline and somehow not all the teams involved matched at 100%.

I’m talking about free agency though? Bad teams use to be able to take back 25 percent more salary for being a salary dump.

Think we will see way more trade activity during the season because making a match in free agency is so hard.

[Scoot McGroot]

Kind of have a hard time free agency being what it use to be. restricted trade rules like removing the 125% matching and apron rules takes a lot of teams out of free agency.

Use to be able to salary dump your way into free agency or take advantage of matching rules in sign and trades. Now only two teams max likely have cap space.

For players, means they are are losing a negotiation advantage and will have smaller annual amounts imo.

Why? Lots of teams that have no interest in going into the aprons may be willing to take on some salary. We just saw a record trade deadline and somehow not all the teams involved matched at 100%.

I’m talking about free agency though? Bad teams use to be able to take back 25 percent more salary for being a salary dump.

That didn't change. Teams can still take back 125% of what they send out of $19.6m and above. The only thing that's changed is that apron teams can't do so, and are generally limited to 100%. However, teams that will operate as over the cap (even if they technically could get below the cap a bit) could still take back 125%, and they can also still use their MLE/BAE/Room exception to eat salary, too.

Apron teams have more difficulty in adding salary endlessly, yes. But the rest of the teams have expanded avenues to take back salary.

Think we will see way more trade activity during the season because making a match in free agency is so hard.

Yeah, definitely could, which was kind of what I was saying? Like, we could see Memphis move Brandon Clarke into someone's MLE and get to $30m in space. Detroit could move Fontecchio into an exception and get to $30m in cap space. Chicago could sell off Jalen Smith for 2nds and get to $30+m in cap space. Charlotte could get to almost $30m in cap space by dumping Green or Grant into an MLE somewhere and waiving their non-guaranteeds (minus Diabete, of course). Etc.

Trades may be required, but there's cap space to be had, if teams choose to. Of course, all those teams could keep their free agents, or take someone via trade into their MLE and operate over the cap as well. We could end up with JUST Brooklyn as a cap space team, or we could end up with like 8-10 teams with somewhat meaningful cap space. There's a lot up in the air. And teams could do something as affordably as just moving up or down in the draft to clear or add salary.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Why? Lots of teams that have no interest in going into the aprons may be willing to take on some salary. We just saw a record trade deadline and somehow not all the teams involved matched at 100%.

I’m talking about free agency though? Bad teams use to be able to take back 25 percent more salary for being a salary dump.

That didn't change. Teams can still take back 125% of what they send out of $19.6m and above. The only thing that's changed is that apron teams can't do so, and are generally limited to 100%. However, teams that will operate as over the cap (even if they technically could get below the cap a bit) could still take back 125%, and they can also still use their MLE/BAE/Room exception to eat salary, too.

Apron teams have more difficulty in adding salary endlessly, yes. But the rest of the teams have expanded avenues to take back salary.

Think we will see way more trade activity during the season because making a match in free agency is so hard.

Yeah, definitely could, which was kind of what I was saying? Like, we could see Memphis move Brandon Clarke into someone's MLE and get to $30m in space. Detroit could move Fontecchio into an exception and get to $30m in cap space. Chicago could sell off Jalen Smith for 2nds and get to $30+m in cap space. Charlotte could get to almost $30m in cap space by dumping Green or Grant into an MLE somewhere and waiving their non-guaranteeds (minus Diabete, of course). Etc.

Trades may be required, but there's cap space to be had, if teams choose to. Of course, all those teams could keep their free agents, or take someone via trade into their MLE and operate over the cap as well. We could end up with JUST Brooklyn as a cap space team, or we could end up with like 8-10 teams with somewhat meaningful cap space. There's a lot up in the air. And teams could do something as affordably as just moving up or down in the draft to clear or add salary.

By meaningful in this context I’m talking about team being able to afford Turner. If you get him for 25 30 million thats a good deal still imo for team.

Also think the price of salary dumps cost more.

Pre CBA you would have sign and trade contenders driving market price up for premium players like Myles.

Pre CBA changes i have Myles at bout 45 a year on a 2 to 3 year deal. Maybe 35 on 4 year deal.

[zimpy27]

I think a SnT to Pistons with Stewart going to Pacers could make some sense if Pacers want to save money for keeping Mathurin.

I don't think Pacers can even just drop Toppin and expect to be under the tax line with a re-signed Mathurin in 26-27 seasons.

[babyjax13]

My assumption is if he wants more money a 1+1 is likely because everyone has cap space in 2027. Indiana can easily shop him on that deal if the team isn't looking the way they want. But I bet they come to a fair agreement, something like 25-30m per year for 3-4 years.

[ReggiesKnicks]

My assumption is if he wants more money a 1+1 is likely because everyone has cap space in 2027. Indiana can easily shop him on that deal if the team isn't looking the way they want. But I bet they come to a fair agreement, something like 25-30m per year for 3-4 years.

Myles Turner would have a NYC if he signed a 1+1 and that leads to all sorts of problems.

I also fail to see how a 1+1 gets him more money in the long-run.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m talking about free agency though? Bad teams use to be able to take back 25 percent more salary for being a salary dump.

That didn't change. Teams can still take back 125% of what they send out of $19.6m and above. The only thing that's changed is that apron teams can't do so, and are generally limited to 100%. However, teams that will operate as over the cap (even if they technically could get below the cap a bit) could still take back 125%, and they can also still use their MLE/BAE/Room exception to eat salary, too.

Apron teams have more difficulty in adding salary endlessly, yes. But the rest of the teams have expanded avenues to take back salary.

Yeah, definitely could, which was kind of what I was saying? Like, we could see Memphis move Brandon Clarke into someone's MLE and get to $30m in space. Detroit could move Fontecchio into an exception and get to $30m in cap space. Chicago could sell off Jalen Smith for 2nds and get to $30+m in cap space. Charlotte could get to almost $30m in cap space by dumping Green or Grant into an MLE somewhere and waiving their non-guaranteeds (minus Diabete, of course). Etc.

Trades may be required, but there's cap space to be had, if teams choose to. Of course, all those teams could keep their free agents, or take someone via trade into their MLE and operate over the cap as well. We could end up with JUST Brooklyn as a cap space team, or we could end up with like 8-10 teams with somewhat meaningful cap space. There's a lot up in the air. And teams could do something as affordably as just moving up or down in the draft to clear or add salary.

By meaningful in this context I’m talking about team being able to afford Turner. If you get him for 25 30 million thats a good deal still imo for team.

Also think the price of salary dumps cost more.

Pre CBA you would have sign and trade contenders driving market price up for premium players like Myles.

Pre CBA changes i have Myles at bout 45 a year on a 2 to 3 year deal. Maybe 35 on 4 year deal.

Pre CBA changes, $45m per was above a supermax for Myles. Seems like starting centers have gone for around $23-32m in salary lately, when you factor in guys like Allen, Lopez, Hartenstein, Claxton, etc. I just kind of assume that Myles will be in that same range? He’s no longer a young guy with a ton of “untapped potential”. He basically is what he is, which is a really nice player that is a clear starter and will never be an All Star? Basically, a super duper role player that is fine tuning some things the rest of the way? Don’t know that anyone will feel the need to max him.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think a SnT to Pistons with Stewart going to Pacers could make some sense if Pacers want to save money for keeping Mathurin.

I don't think Pacers can even just drop Toppin and expect to be under the tax line with a re-signed Mathurin in 26-27 seasons.

Stewart/Nesmith would basically equal Myles, though, in all likelihood. And if Mathurin is a clear extension candidate or keeper, then it seems like Nesmith would be a clear guy to move on for a pick/refresh his small contract. Plus, Nesmith would be entering the last year of his deal and need an extension, too.

Lots of options going forward. Maybe TJ will want out, or be able to be moved on. Who knows. I wouldn’t dump guys too early in the plan that we’ll eventually need to extend a guy before we know if that guy is worth the big extension we’d need to clear him for; ya know?

[zimpy27]

I think a SnT to Pistons with Stewart going to Pacers could make some sense if Pacers want to save money for keeping Mathurin.

I don't think Pacers can even just drop Toppin and expect to be under the tax line with a re-signed Mathurin in 26-27 seasons.

Stewart/Nesmith would basically equal Myles, though, in all likelihood. And if Mathurin is a clear extension candidate or keeper, then it seems like Nesmith would be a clear guy to move on for a pick/refresh his small contract. Plus, Nesmith would be entering the last year of his deal and need an extension, too.

Lots of options going forward. Maybe TJ will want out, or be able to be moved on. Who knows. I wouldn’t dump guys too early in the plan that we’ll eventually need to extend a guy before we know if that guy is worth the big extension we’d need to clear him for; ya know?

Even as soon as next season you have issues.

You're $14m away from the tax as it stands without re-signing Turner and Jackson. Even if you pay to move Obi in to capspace somewhere you're probably going in to tax land.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think a SnT to Pistons with Stewart going to Pacers could make some sense if Pacers want to save money for keeping Mathurin.

I don't think Pacers can even just drop Toppin and expect to be under the tax line with a re-signed Mathurin in 26-27 seasons.

Stewart/Nesmith would basically equal Myles, though, in all likelihood. And if Mathurin is a clear extension candidate or keeper, then it seems like Nesmith would be a clear guy to move on for a pick/refresh his small contract. Plus, Nesmith would be entering the last year of his deal and need an extension, too.

Lots of options going forward. Maybe TJ will want out, or be able to be moved on. Who knows. I wouldn’t dump guys too early in the plan that we’ll eventually need to extend a guy before we know if that guy is worth the big extension we’d need to clear him for; ya know?

Even as soon as next season you have issues.

You're $14m away from the tax as it stands without re-signing Turner and Jackson. Even if you pay to move Obi in to capspace somewhere you're probably going in to tax land.

Yes, it will be close again. I don’t know that anyone has pushed back on the tight salary situation. However, Ben if Myles gets a $30m per, it’d start around $26m, and Indy has a ton of guys signed, so they’d be able to come close, but stay under? Who knows. Lots of balls in the air.

[tmorgan]

Pacers should keep Turner and move Mathurin if necessary. He’s more flash than substance when I’ve watched them.

That said, if the Pacers decide to move Turner. I hope Detroit does discuss it with them. I still doubt we’re gonna move Stew, though. Just seems like a dangerous move for that precious yet hard to evaluate team culture.

[basketballwacko2]

It appears the Pacers are all in on resigning Myles Turner this summer. Best case scenario I think he resigns for about 4 years at 25-30 mil/yr. The question, will the rest of the league allow the Pacers to get away this? Is there a team with the desire and cap space to push Indiana higher?

Assuming Pacers are able to resign Turner they will likely need to reduce salary. Most see the Topoin contract as the likely one to be moved. Is there a market for this contract? Once again Pacers would like to take back minimal salary in this transaction.

I expect a 5 yr deal from the Pacers starting at $28 million with raises and a Player option in the last year.

I think Topping will be traded with a 2nd or 2, or they might send out Toppin with their 2025 #1 for a 2026 #1 if they can find a team with the space or a TPE to take him.

[basketballwacko2]

Kind of have a hard time free agency being what it use to be. restricted trade rules like removing the 125% matching and apron rules takes a lot of teams out of free agency.

Use to be able to salary dump your way into free agency or take advantage of matching rules in sign and trades. Now only two teams max likely have cap space.

For players, means they are are losing a negotiation advantage and will have smaller annual amounts imo.

Also means that the Lakers can't just go buy whoever they want!

[basketballwacko2]

My assumption is if he wants more money a 1+1 is likely because everyone has cap space in 2027. Indiana can easily shop him on that deal if the team isn't looking the way they want. But I bet they come to a fair agreement, something like 25-30m per year for 3-4 years.

I think Turner is smarter than that. If he takes a 1+1 and gets hurt he could end up like Victor Oladipo. After his injury Indiana offered Oladipo 4 yrs $85 million or there about. He said no, betting on himself I suppose, he then turned down about $50 million from the rockets for 2 yrs, and got sent to Miami and got hurt again, and then again. Now he's made about 1/2 what he could have made if he'd taken the Pacers offer. I'd advise my client to tell the Pacers we want 5 yrs starting at $28 million with raises that's about $155 million, 5th year player option if he wants it.

That would be a value contract for Indiana and set Myles up for life.