Feelers for Jaden Ivey

[tmorgan]

So, he’s likely out until the start of next season, which I’m aware adds uncertainty to his future and value. The good news is, it was a clean break with no ligament damage, so a full recovery (eventually) shouldn’t be a problem.

Detroit’s facing a future salary problem. Because we built through the draft from a ridiculously awful starting point, we actually drafted four starters over the course of three years, along with a key bench guy the previous year. Cade’s obviously the centerpiece and starts his max second contract next year. Stewart is the bench guy mentioned, and he started his flat 4/60 deal this year. Assume Stewart is unavailable, although I know there has been some chatter. Too important to team culture and our defense.

Ivey and Duren are about to finish their third years, so extension talks will happen this summer. Duren’s on the rise, but still needs to work on his defense. I’d still expect an extension, if the Pistons go that route, to be 4/100 or more. Ivey, I don’t know — he played better this year before getting hurt and is scoring threat from inside and out, but his defense is still questionable. He has some ball skills (he ran point the year Cade got hurt) but I wouldn’t call him a good playmaker yet, either. Elite athlete, obviously. If he extends, I’m not sure what the price tag will be.

And then there’s Ausar, who I expect to be very expensive to extend in 2026. Just like his twin, he has a lot to work on offensively, but I’m now convinced that even if they never shoot outside well, they’re still plusses on offense, and of course their defense is almost unreal. He’s going to command a near max extension, I’m sure of it.

So that’s everything but a starting 4, drafted over three years. That’s great… until you have to pay them all. It seems to me, given how well we’ve played in his absence, that Ivey is the most likely to be moved before he gets paid after next season. No guarantee that happens. But I think Langdon would be wise to at least nose around for offers, perhaps contingent on him looking good when he returns next season.

With a very expensive PG, a fairly expensive C, and a likely very expensive position-flexible SF, that means we need a 2 and a 4 that both fit and aren’t crazy expensive, either. Holland, our rook this year, has a shot to be the SG, but he’s going to need more time. Much better defensively than Ivey, but no where near the offensive player at this point.

So, if Ivey is moved, the stuff that makes sense is; draft compensation, 3&D type SG, 3&D type PF. The players could be young and developing or vets, but can’t be super expensive. I was all gung ho about putting a package together for Markkanen until I realized we probably can’t afford his salary after next season unless we’re shipping out multiple young guys. Same for Booker.

You guys know your teams better than I do… does anything out there make sense to you, given the situation?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Ivey for Marhurin

[tmorgan]

Ivey for Marhurin

That doesn’t change anything money-wise, though. Same draft. Mathurin’s a tiny bit cheaper as he was drafted slightly later, but nothing significant. They’re also kinda similar as players, except Ivey’s results are a little better. Both have defensive issues.

Don’t think that solves anything.

[Astaluego]

Fontecchio+Ivey for C.Johnson..?

Or

Ivey for Black/Da Silva

[tmorgan]

Fontecchio+Ivey for C.Johnson..?

Or

Ivey for Black/Da Silva

The Cam Johnson one is worth considering, although he probably makes too much money. Eh, not as much as I thought. That’s something to think about. Getting off the last year of Tek helps, he has disappointed this season.

I know the Magic could use Ivey. I don’t think we have much use for Anthony Black, tho. He was picked too high and costs too much for what he brings, and his offense is obviously not good so far. However, Da Silva is the kind of cost-controlled asset we’re looking for. Da Silva and a pick would be better.

[Mavrelous]

Pistons were better after he went down and his on/off stats back it up, I liked everything I saw from him offensively before he went down though.
I wouldn't mind gambling on him as Kyrie replacement, Prsper + Lakers 29 1st top 4 protected.

[tmorgan]

Pistons were better after he went down and his on/off stats back it up, I liked everything I saw from him offensively before he went down though.
I wouldn't mind gambling on him as Kyrie replacement, Prsper + Lakers 29 1st top 4 protected.

As we’ve discussed on our home board, the “Pistons got better when he went down” stuff is more about Ausar coming back and ramping up his minutes in the starting lineup than about Ivey. Ausar’s a really, REALLY impactful player, even though he couldn’t replace Ivey’s offense, his insane defense helped more overall.

[MotownMadness]

He’s probably gonna have to prove his worth coming back from a bad injury.

[theBigLip]

There’s definitely logic to move Ivey. But because of his injury (which he will come back 100%), I don’t think the Pistons can get a good haul if traded this offseason.

I’m not sure of all the details and timing about extending, but next year’s trade deadline seems like a more logical time to trade him. Who knows, he might blow up in a good way and we’ll want to keep him. But trading him w a future first could get us a nice vet from an underperforming team next year.

[Snakebites]

Teams won’t give a lot for him now and I get it. Hard to make a move for a guy with that kind of injury.

Best to hold onto him and see how he can fit on this team. Hopefully he’ll show out and either prove himself a fit or improve his value.

[Skybox]

Ivey for Marhurin

That doesn’t change anything money-wise, though. Same draft. Mathurin’s a tiny bit cheaper as he was drafted slightly later, but nothing significant. They’re also kinda similar as players, except Ivey’s results are a little better. Both have defensive issues.

Don’t think that solves anything.

Saving money by getting a lesser player from the same class isn't what you're after?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Ivey for Marhurin

That doesn’t change anything money-wise, though. Same draft. Mathurin’s a tiny bit cheaper as he was drafted slightly later, but nothing significant. They’re also kinda similar as players, except Ivey’s results are a little better. Both have defensive issues.

Don’t think that solves anything.

Saving money by getting a lesser player from the same class isn't what you're after?

I'm not sure either of the two players have separated themselves from each other to be determined lesser.

Ivey seemingly took a step this year but also was injured.

[Skybox]

Teams won’t give a lot for him now and I get it. Hard to make a move for a guy with that kind of injury.

Best to hold onto him and see how he can fit on this team. Hopefully he’ll show out and either prove himself a fit or improve his value.

I LOVE him for ORL but we face the same upcoming $$ concerns...I'd still want to explore it.

Regarding the injury...I recall hearing it was just the fibula - which I took as fantastic news for Ivey (and, to a much lesser extent, Cole Anthony, who was clearly really upset about how it happened). It looked bad.

My son broke his tibia, fibula, and had a spiral fracture in his ankle...point is that I saw regular X-rays of the healing process (no surgery - just healed up ). Anyway, the Ortho surgeon basically (literally) paid no attention to the position of the fibula (separation) and, when I asked, he told me something like "don't worry about that-it'll find itself"...and it did. Pretty amazing process.

[Slim Charless]

He’s probably gonna have to prove his worth coming back from a bad injury.

There’s definitely logic to move Ivey. But because of his injury (which he will come back 100%), I don’t think the Pistons can get a good haul if traded this offseason.

I’m not sure of all the details and timing about extending, but next year’s trade deadline seems like a more logical time to trade him. Who knows, he might blow up in a good way and we’ll want to keep him. But trading him w a future first could get us a nice vet from an underperforming team next year.

1 of your fellow Piston fans, Kalamazoo317 hinted he's equal to Booker, or that he can't see the major differences, so there's that. I strongly disagree. Shoot for the moon. I think the answer would be no on that note personally.

I place his value at a late 1st with the injury

[vege]

Pistons were better after he went down and his on/off stats back it up, I liked everything I saw from him offensively before he went down though.
I wouldn't mind gambling on him as Kyrie replacement, Prsper + Lakers 29 1st top 4 protected.

Detroit started getting better before he went down tho.

It has nothing to do with Ivey going down, but with us getting Ausar back. Ausar's impact is comparable to Cade's this season. Ausar is top 30 in EPM and he's still going up.

And FWIW the next game will be the first game of the season Ausar will not be in a minutes restriction.

Ivey was excellent the 4 games before his injury (including the game he got injured where he was the best player on the court).

Ivey would be a huge upgrade over Tim Hardaway Jr who have been bad, despite of being unselfish and trying hard on defense, THJr and Ivey are both terrible defenders, Hardaway is a much better passer/less TO prone (and have less defensive farts than Ivey) but Ivey is a much better shooter and scorer.

I think we'll be fine when Ivey comes back, what we really need is a backup PF, because Ron and Ausar are more of 2-3's and Fontecchio has been arguably the worst rotation player in the league this season.

If/when the money is an issue you do sign and trades or you extend him (and Duren) and trade one or both of them. Before the injury Ivey was by far the superior player compared to Duren.

So as crazy as it sounds, because I did not like Ivey in the past, I would keep him, not offer an extension (because of his injury) let him start next season, and go from there.

Worst case scenario he hits Restricted free agency, in today's NBA economy singing the qualify offer is not an option for players anymore (Free agency money doesn't exist anymore only one team will have more than the MLE next season for example), so a KCP/Greg Monroe repeat won't happen.

[tmorgan]

That doesn’t change anything money-wise, though. Same draft. Mathurin’s a tiny bit cheaper as he was drafted slightly later, but nothing significant. They’re also kinda similar as players, except Ivey’s results are a little better. Both have defensive issues.

Don’t think that solves anything.

Saving money by getting a lesser player from the same class isn't what you're after?

I'm not sure either of the two players have separated themselves from each other to be determined lesser.

Ivey seemingly took a step this year but also was injured.

Mathurin’s sort of a problem for the Pacers, yes? Of all the bigger and smaller wings they’ve drafted or acquired in recent years to fill in between Hali and Turner, Mathurin was the earliest pick and probably developed the least. He’s not an efficient scorer and his defense is meh. Meanwhile you have guys like Nembhard. Nesmith, Sheppard and Walker that get fewer shots but score more efficiently and play better defense. Tell me if I’m wrong on this, but that’s my impression.

[tmorgan]

Oh, and I 100% agree that waiting until he gets back on the court to establish his value and health is going to happen. But, if were the GM, I’d still be having these quiet, preliminary conversations now to get an idea of what’s out there when the time possibly comes.

[zeebneeb]

The problem with moving Ivey early, is that the Pistons are exploding into the scene right now. When Ivey comes back, he would essentially be replacing Hardaway, which is a massive upgrade. He does everything better, and was looking like he was going to break out as well. Who else in the league has top 1% speed, and shoots 40+% from three?

The issue of course, is whats being discussed, affordability. I am unsure if the Pistons can keep all of Cade/Ausar/Duren/Ivey. The cost could be astronomical.

*sigh*

[TheZachAttack]

Ingles, Shannon Jr, and your first back for Ivey

[Skybox]

Looks like ORL's pick could be pretty high (slotted #11 right now)...if it settled there or a spot or two in either direction, how about Cole Anthony's expiring $12.9m (actually TO if he blows up) and the ORL pick?

Alternatively, Anthony Black and DEN 25 frp for Ivey

both save DET significant long-term money.