Big reason the Suns offense isn't quite elite.

[cupcakesnake]

We all know the Suns main problems are due to super stinky defense (28th in the league, +4.7 rDrtg). They built the ship out of shooting guards, and don't possess much in the way of rim protection, perimeter defense, or wing defense. It's just bad all-around.

But why is their offense (8th ranked, +2.2 rOrtg) closer to the Rockets, Bulls, or even Heat, than it is to the Cavs, Celtics, Thunder, or Nuggets? This is a very offensive slanted team with a million shooters and passers, a guy people call the best pure scorer ever, and another guy people thought of as maybe the best offensive 2-guard in the league.

Below is a good video breakdown by the excellent Daniel Li showing how Durant and Booker simply don't generate quality offense when they draw double teams. Both struggle badly in pick & roll, and Durant struggles also in isolation. Drawing 2 to the ball is supposed to unlock elite offense, but in Phoenix is been a bit mid. Bud finally got this team jacking enough 3s, but the offense hasn't really improved.

Watch on YouTube

[Primedeion]

Maybe... just maybe...it's because guys like Draymond Green are far better at handling at handling 4 -3 situations than the likes of Nick Richards or Bol Bol.

[FrodoBaggins]

Great video.

[Raps in 4]

They have two elite second options whose only skill is ISO scoring. They need a first option, or someone with a more versatile offensive game.

[og15]

Maybe... just maybe...it's because guys like Draymond Green are far better at handling at handling 4 -3 situations than the likes of Nick Richards or Bol Bol.

At least watch a little bit of the video before commenting though, lol

The point in the video isn't about what the roll man does and how effective that is.

It first goes over how each approaches the pick and roll double. Booker's generally not looking to the roll man as it's a harder pass and instead swinging back to the perimeter which loses the advantage. Durant does look for he roll man, but his passing acumen is weak and he doesn't get them the ball as often as he should, getting his passes deflected or intercepted.

It then goes over some of the reasons why their passing is less effective than it should be. A primary reason is that they don't draw the defense in enough. They are seeing double, and trying to quickly get the ball out.

My aside is that this can happen if a player is not a "strong" ball handler. There's a difference between a skilled ball handler (has moves) and a strong ball handler (knows how to keep the ball secure against pressure). Ideal is both. Guys who give the ball up too quickly in those situations sometimes aren't very strong ball handlers. Pressure can cause them to speed up / rush and make mistakes, so a guy like that will get rid of the ball early to avoid too much pressure. The disadvantage is that getting rid of the ball too early against a blitz doesn't force the defense to move enough to develop that advantage.

That fact about Durant is not new, it's always been part of why Durant is not as good a floor raiser as many other top guys, because playmaking is a weakness. It's hard to be an offensive floor raiser at a high level with just your own individual scoring.

The video then ends talking about how they could use DHO's more, and how Booker on the other hand is better at dealing with additional defenders out of iso compared to KD and how he has improved as a passer.

[NZB2323]

They also turn the ball over a lot and don’t get offensive rebounds. They’re a better HORSE team than basketball team.

[AleksandarN]

They needed Jokic instead of Beal

[cupcakesnake]

They needed Jokic instead of Beal

You know, I think they had an idea they needed to pair Booker and Durant with distributors. They did their best with limited resources and signed Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. The problem is they probably need a better version of Tyus Jones, and they'd actually need to keep the ball in that players hands. Tyus Jones gets to handle it some, but the offense still keeps the ball in Booker's hands and moves Tyus to the corner, which obviously doesn't play into either of their strengths. That part is on Bud.

Booker did a lot of damage paired with Chris Paul. Paul could handle the distribution and versatility, allowing Booker to be pure fire power. Similar to KD always being firepower next to Russ, Harden, Curry/Draymond etc.

Booker has a decent handle and isn't a bad passer at all. In some situations he makes very good reads. He's not the orchestrator of crazy elite offense though. He can orchestrate some basic drive and kick action, but like the video shows, he doesn't operate amazing in pick & roll so you can't make him a helio in that offense. I think it doesn't get talked about enough that Booker isn't actually a consistently great shooter. He's at 35% on his career from 3. He's super elite in the midrange, but meh at the rim and from 3. That's not an easy thing to build an offense around. He's more like a better version of Demar Derozan, and ultimately I think his role is powerful complimentary scorer.

But yes, we all know the Beal trade was stupid. A fairly brainless, desperate attempt to grab any big name available at any cost. Beal is like Booker, but older and more injured.

[benhillboy]

I love watching the Suns get washed in real time, I don’t need to watch the vid. If it didn’t also touch on how unwilling and horrible Durant is as a screener and offensive rebounder it should’ve.

[MrGoat]

One thing I'll say before I watch is the obvious redundancy and way too many mid range 2s. There is a reason the mid range 2 fell out of favor. In 2021 KD, Booker, and Beal were all top 10 in the league in total mid range 2s.

https://www.nba.com/news/derozan-durant-lead-top-10-mid-range-scorers

KD and Booker are still top 10, Bradley Beal probably still would be if his total shot volume wasn't so down from the past

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting?DistanceRange=By%20Zone&TeamID=0&dir=D&sort=Mid-Range%20FGA

KD and Booker are also still elite from that range but that's just known to not be an optimal way to set up an offense these days. They're #3 in 3P% but only #12 in attempts, not having a center who can provide easy paint points was a killer for this team (Nick Richards takes more mid range shots then he has any business doing) and Nurkic's 2P numbers when they still had him would make your eyes burn. Well, not having any defense was the true killer but getting so little production in the paint and not taking enough 3s is why their offense wasn't better than it was

[madmaxmedia]

I remember the Tyus Jones signing created a lot of anticipation, that he might help them finally unlock their offense. He signed a 1 year vet minimum just to join them too.

They needed Jokic instead of Beal

You know, I think they had an idea they needed to pair Booker and Durant with distributors. They did their best with limited resources and signed Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. The problem is they probably need a better version of Tyus Jones, and they'd actually need to keep the ball in that players hands. Tyus Jones gets to handle it some, but the offense still keeps the ball in Booker's hands and moves Tyus to the corner, which obviously doesn't play into either of their strengths. That part is on Bud.

Booker did a lot of damage paired with Chris Paul. Paul could handle the distribution and versatility, allowing Booker to be pure fire power. Similar to KD always being firepower next to Russ, Harden, Curry/Draymond etc.

Booker has a decent handle and isn't a bad passer at all. In some situations he makes very good reads. He's not the orchestrator of crazy elite offense though. He can orchestrate some basic drive and kick action, but like the video shows, he doesn't operate amazing in pick & roll so you can't make him a helio in that offense. I think it doesn't get talked about enough that Booker isn't actually a consistently great shooter. He's at 35% on his career from 3. He's super elite in the midrange, but meh at the rim and from 3. That's not an easy thing to build an offense around. He's more like a better version of Demar Derozan, and ultimately I think his role is powerful complimentary scorer.

But yes, we all know the Beal trade was stupid. A fairly brainless, desperate attempt to grab any big name available at any cost. Beal is like Booker, but older and more injured.

[zimpy27]

They needed Jokic instead of Beal

You know, I think they had an idea they needed to pair Booker and Durant with distributors. They did their best with limited resources and signed Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. The problem is they probably need a better version of Tyus Jones, and they'd actually need to keep the ball in that players hands. Tyus Jones gets to handle it some, but the offense still keeps the ball in Booker's hands and moves Tyus to the corner, which obviously doesn't play into either of their strengths. That part is on Bud.

Booker did a lot of damage paired with Chris Paul. Paul could handle the distribution and versatility, allowing Booker to be pure fire power. Similar to KD always being firepower next to Russ, Harden, Curry/Draymond etc.

Booker has a decent handle and isn't a bad passer at all. In some situations he makes very good reads. He's not the orchestrator of crazy elite offense though. He can orchestrate some basic drive and kick action, but like the video shows, he doesn't operate amazing in pick & roll so you can't make him a helio in that offense. I think it doesn't get talked about enough that Booker isn't actually a consistently great shooter. He's at 35% on his career from 3. He's super elite in the midrange, but meh at the rim and from 3. That's not an easy thing to build an offense around. He's more like a better version of Demar Derozan, and ultimately I think his role is powerful complimentary scorer.

But yes, we all know the Beal trade was stupid. A fairly brainless, desperate attempt to grab any big name available at any cost. Beal is like Booker, but older and more injured.

This team with Harden instead of Beal.

[Onlytimewilltel]

Two words … Bradley… Beal

[MrSparkle]

Their depth chart sucks, and Durant is almost 37yo. He can’t defend anymore. Last thing you want for a declining star is a poor depth chart. Warriors and Lakers did their dinos right by getting relief for Curry and Lebron.

Beal and Booker were never adequate defenders to begin with. They botched several trades and lost all their chips.

So they have defense and bad depth. If they had nice 3D players like Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, a playmaker like CP3 (still starting at 40) and some type of half competent 2-way C like Ayton… you know, the 2021 finals squad… maybe they’d be good.

They’re basically the rich man’s version of the Bulls Demar/Zach/Vuc disaster.

[Special_Puppy]

A lot of it is that their offensive rebounding is absolutely putrid https://xrapm.com/all_teams.html

[Calvin Klein]

There is only one reason. Ownership.

[cupcakesnake]

They needed Jokic instead of Beal

You know, I think they had an idea they needed to pair Booker and Durant with distributors. They did their best with limited resources and signed Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. The problem is they probably need a better version of Tyus Jones, and they'd actually need to keep the ball in that players hands. Tyus Jones gets to handle it some, but the offense still keeps the ball in Booker's hands and moves Tyus to the corner, which obviously doesn't play into either of their strengths. That part is on Bud.

Booker did a lot of damage paired with Chris Paul. Paul could handle the distribution and versatility, allowing Booker to be pure fire power. Similar to KD always being firepower next to Russ, Harden, Curry/Draymond etc.

Booker has a decent handle and isn't a bad passer at all. In some situations he makes very good reads. He's not the orchestrator of crazy elite offense though. He can orchestrate some basic drive and kick action, but like the video shows, he doesn't operate amazing in pick & roll so you can't make him a helio in that offense. I think it doesn't get talked about enough that Booker isn't actually a consistently great shooter. He's at 35% on his career from 3. He's super elite in the midrange, but meh at the rim and from 3. That's not an easy thing to build an offense around. He's more like a better version of Demar Derozan, and ultimately I think his role is powerful complimentary scorer.

But yes, we all know the Beal trade was stupid. A fairly brainless, desperate attempt to grab any big name available at any cost. Beal is like Booker, but older and more injured.

This team with Harden instead of Beal.

Beard over Beal!
Despite the huge drop off and decline of Harden's scoring (efficiency and volume) since he left Houston (he's bad in the paint and not quite killer from 3), the guy has a huge edge on other declining offensive stars because you can still put the ball in his hands and he can run an offense with his passing game.

Lots of less than ideal stuff about old man Beard's game, but guys who can do more than score tend to age better.

[Calvin Klein]

Ishbia's tenure reminds me of a certain someone in the news nowadays. Just complete destruction from day one.

[dhsilv2]

You know, I think they had an idea they needed to pair Booker and Durant with distributors. They did their best with limited resources and signed Tyus Jones and Monte Morris. The problem is they probably need a better version of Tyus Jones, and they'd actually need to keep the ball in that players hands. Tyus Jones gets to handle it some, but the offense still keeps the ball in Booker's hands and moves Tyus to the corner, which obviously doesn't play into either of their strengths. That part is on Bud.

Booker did a lot of damage paired with Chris Paul. Paul could handle the distribution and versatility, allowing Booker to be pure fire power. Similar to KD always being firepower next to Russ, Harden, Curry/Draymond etc.

Booker has a decent handle and isn't a bad passer at all. In some situations he makes very good reads. He's not the orchestrator of crazy elite offense though. He can orchestrate some basic drive and kick action, but like the video shows, he doesn't operate amazing in pick & roll so you can't make him a helio in that offense. I think it doesn't get talked about enough that Booker isn't actually a consistently great shooter. He's at 35% on his career from 3. He's super elite in the midrange, but meh at the rim and from 3. That's not an easy thing to build an offense around. He's more like a better version of Demar Derozan, and ultimately I think his role is powerful complimentary scorer.

But yes, we all know the Beal trade was stupid. A fairly brainless, desperate attempt to grab any big name available at any cost. Beal is like Booker, but older and more injured.

This team with Harden instead of Beal.

Beard over Beal!
Despite the huge drop off and decline of Harden's scoring (efficiency and volume) since he left Houston (he's bad in the paint and not quite killer from 3), the guy has a huge edge on other declining offensive stars because you can still put the ball in his hands and he can run an offense with his passing game.

Lots of less than ideal stuff about old man Beard's game, but guys who can do more than score tend to age better.

i was just noticing he's still way up there in the RAPM based metrics despite the decline.

[Mrakar]

If they just had smart solid PG instead of Beal...oh wait they had that and decided that they want to pay Beal 50 mil instead of paying CP 5 mil...