Luka Dončić, Nikola Jokic and James Harden are redefining athleticism

[AleksandarN]

Interesting read.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/luka-don%C4%8Di%C4%87-nikola-jokic-and-james-harden-are-redefining-athleticism/ar-AA1DevfF?ocid=BingNewsSerp

As the 2025 NBA Playoffs are get underway, we are all looking forward to seeing players like Luka Dončić, James Harden and Nikola Jokic rise to the occasion and put on performances to remember. All of them are key players for Western Conference contenders, who could potentially define this year’s playoffs with big performances over the next few weeks. And all of them are superstars in their own right in a league of elite athletes, despite not being considered very athletic by traditional standards.

[FrodoBaggins]

Adrian Dantley had a similarly underappreciated athleticism. He was hitting smooth step-backs and blowing by guys like Harden in the '80s.

[shrink]

Sports Science did athletic tests on Harden, and found he was below average in every category except one .. he was elite at stopping his own momentum. Very cool that with one, questionable, athletic advantage, he developed his skills so highly that it was plenty to become such a successful player.

[Prince187]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I don’t believe it’s from drinking beer and smoking hookah. He’s only in his mid 20s. If anyone would’ve been on pace to be the next Jordan it would have been young Luka

[peZt]

The most underrated aspect of athleticism and frankly almost the most important one is the ability to quickly change directions, speeds, to have that wiggle and elasticity in the body, to be able to change up your dribble on a dime. Harden and Doncic are elite at that. And then you have guys like Wiggins. Who are old school athletic. Very fast in a sprint, can jump out of the gym, but dont have any wiggle or change of direction abilities so their raw athleticism isnt really much useful

I'm also always wary of wing or guard prospect that always run at 100% speed. Look at guys like Harden or Paul or Doncic. They are able to get where they want on the field while looking like they are just jogging through the field. Simply by using the correct angles, changing their direction, using handles, using their body as a shield and so on.
Players who can only get by their defender by running at them full speed usually lack those skills, which imo are the most important ones for a guard/wing prospect.

[lambchop]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I don’t believe it’s from drinking beer and smoking hookah. He’s only in his mid 20s. If anyone would’ve been on pace to be the next Jordan it would have been young Luka

Gaining weight will diminish that traditional athleticism. "Fat don't fly" is a real thing.

[FarBeyondDriven]

turns out when you've got the ball all the time, are allowed to utilize illegal moving screens to get centers on you, carry, travel, push off and foul bait, you can put up some pretty spectacular numbers in the weakest era for NBA basketball since the 70s

[CloudWalker]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I don’t believe it’s from drinking beer and smoking hookah. He’s only in his mid 20s. If anyone would’ve been on pace to be the next Jordan it would have been young Luka

Gaining weight will diminish that traditional athleticism. "Fat don't fly" is a real thing.

Why are people trying to rewrite history? Luka has never been considered "traditionally athletic". Never. It was the main reason he was selected 3rd in the draft.

There have always been question marks around his athleticism, he simply immediately proved that these limitations didn't matter since he was just so, so good and able to overcome them with his insane play. Luka has never been good because of his athleticism, it's other things that have made him one of the best offensive players in the league over the last 5 years.

Example from a scouting report, pre 2018 draft:

At 6-foot-8, Doncic has ideal size. He’s versatile enough to play both guard positions, though many think he will transform into a full-time point guard in the NBA. He’s an excellent playmaker. Arguably his best trait is his ability to orchestrate in a half-court set using his superb vision, instincts and high basketball IQ. While he’s not very athletic or agile, and has little to no explosion off the bounce, Doncic is one of the craftiest prospects we’ve seen in a while. Like current NBA players such as James Harden, Evan Fournier and Manu Ginobili, Doncic has remarkably good footwork. He’s so shifty and unpredictable that defenders have a hard time anticipating his movements.

There are concerns about his lack of athleticism and sprightliness, though. He doesn’t slide his feet well laterally, which could make it easy for opponents to play him one-on-one when he’s on an island defensively. Also, though he has unlimited range and good mechanics, Doncic is a streaky long-distance shooter. He’s much more consistent shooting off the bounce and will sometimes settle for inefficient shots if he can’t shake his defender.

Link:https://www.nba.com/magic/2018-draft-prospects-luka-doncic

Another:

Doncic has below average athleticism and will have a big adjustment to make playing against NBA size and speed. There are a lot of questions about who he’ll guard at the next level. He projects as an average defender at best, and possibly a liability on D.

Doncic doesn’t have great foot speed and could struggle to get to the rim against NBA defenders, and his lack of jumping ability will make it hard to score in traffic. He’s got a solid frame but one that is compact, heavy and lacks length.

Can be a little bit sloppy with the ball and needs to tighten up his handles and make better decisions with the ball to avoid careless turnovers.

Can be a streaky shooter, especially from downtown.

Link: https://nbadraftroom.com/luka-doncic-nba-draft-scouting-report/

I could find more examples, these are just the first two sources I found. I'm sure other reports were similar though, I was really into the 2018 draft and I remember various narratives around Luka very well.

[Prince187]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I don’t believe it’s from drinking beer and smoking hookah. He’s only in his mid 20s. If anyone would’ve been on pace to be the next Jordan it would have been young Luka

Gaining weight will diminish that traditional athleticism. "Fat don't fly" is a real thing.

Why are people trying to rewrite history? Luka has never been considered "traditionally athletic". Never. It was the main reason he was selected 3rd in the draft.

There have always been question marks around his athleticism, he simply immediately proved that these limitations didn't matter since he was just so, so good and able to overcome them with his insane play. Luka has never been good because of his athleticism, it's other things that have made him one of the best offensive players in the league over the last 5 years.

Example from a scouting report, pre 2018 draft:

At 6-foot-8, Doncic has ideal size. He’s versatile enough to play both guard positions, though many think he will transform into a full-time point guard in the NBA. He’s an excellent playmaker. Arguably his best trait is his ability to orchestrate in a half-court set using his superb vision, instincts and high basketball IQ. While he’s not very athletic or agile, and has little to no explosion off the bounce, Doncic is one of the craftiest prospects we’ve seen in a while. Like current NBA players such as James Harden, Evan Fournier and Manu Ginobili, Doncic has remarkably good footwork. He’s so shifty and unpredictable that defenders have a hard time anticipating his movements.

There are concerns about his lack of athleticism and sprightliness, though. He doesn’t slide his feet well laterally, which could make it easy for opponents to play him one-on-one when he’s on an island defensively. Also, though he has unlimited range and good mechanics, Doncic is a streaky long-distance shooter. He’s much more consistent shooting off the bounce and will sometimes settle for inefficient shots if he can’t shake his defender.

Link:https://www.nba.com/magic/2018-draft-prospects-luka-doncic

Another:

Doncic has below average athleticism and will have a big adjustment to make playing against NBA size and speed. There are a lot of questions about who he’ll guard at the next level. He projects as an average defender at best, and possibly a liability on D.

Doncic doesn’t have great foot speed and could struggle to get to the rim against NBA defenders, and his lack of jumping ability will make it hard to score in traffic. He’s got a solid frame but one that is compact, heavy and lacks length.

Can be a little bit sloppy with the ball and needs to tighten up his handles and make better decisions with the ball to avoid careless turnovers.

Can be a streaky shooter, especially from downtown.

Link: https://nbadraftroom.com/luka-doncic-nba-draft-scouting-report/

I could find more examples, these are just the first two sources I found. I'm sure other reports were similar though, I was really into the 2018 draft and I remember various narratives around Luka very well.

You could post a million articles and it wouldn’t matter. White players are always called “unathletic” regardless of whether it’s true or not. Just go watch the highlight reel of Luka’s first couple of seasons that was recently posted here. He was definitely athletic back then

[Upperclass]

You dont need to be an elite athlete if you know how to use your defenders leverage against them and also attack from different angles. There were plenty of good to great players in the 90s and early 2000s without elite athleticism

[Bob8]

I don't know how athletic Luka is, but I sincerely doubt that fat, non athletic dude can average 31points, 8.7 BPM in playoffs.

[QPR]

turns out when you've got the ball all the time, are allowed to utilize illegal moving screens to get centers on you, carry, travel, push off and foul bait, you can put up some pretty spectacular numbers in the weakest era for NBA basketball since the 70s

[Lalouie]

actually the nba tried redefing athleticism for the whole damn millenium. they drafted heavilly on ceiling and potential. they drafted teenagers. they couldn't wait to draft youth and penalized players for staying longer than ONE YEAR in college. it all culminated several years ago when 15 of the first top20 were 1dones

the nba put bbIQ and experience on the backburner.

when "you" talk about the luka/harden/jokic athleticism you are putting the wrong emPHAsis on the wrong syLLAble. you are not really talking about their athleticism, you're talking about their SMARTS.

and btw, you forgot jrue and steph and a host of others who don't use athleticism as their primary gear. these are the athletes who have made up the bulk of the nba and how it's played for 60yrs

when every team is athletic is when they all start to look the same. it takes smarts to nuance the game

[tsherkin]

I think we've known for a long time that the traditional definitions of athleticism were very limited, and largely looking at end to end speed, vertical leaping ability and first step explosion. We've been having the discussion more and more about the utility of body control, reaction time, the ability to control personal momentum, coordination, awareness of self in space and similar things in terms of player efficacy. We've also been learning lots and lots about horizontal spacing instead of vertical, and again, the value of various skills as compensation for athletic loss. Shooting ability, screen usage, timing, that sort of thing.

Burst is great, it's very helpful. But, to borrow the old saying, there are many ways to skin a cat.

[LarsV8]

*offensively*

Which is not really about athleticism, it is about "twitchy-ness", "Misdirection from body movements", "deceleration", "burst", and just good old fashion BBIQ, or perhaps you want to call it craftiness.

[Lalouie]

*offensively*

Which is not really about athleticism, it is about "twitchy-ness", "Misdirection from body movements", "deceleration", "burst", and just good old fashion BBIQ, or perhaps you want to call it craftiness.

there's "athleticism" and "basketball athleticism". jrue is a basketball athlete. hell, I even think sga is a basketball athlete.

it's guys like ant who drive the athleticism bus.
and did you hear when ant said he couldn't figure out what the lakers did last night in the wolves' loss? he had zero assists

[og15]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago. I don’t know what happened to him. I don’t believe it’s from drinking beer and smoking hookah. He’s only in his mid 20s. If anyone would’ve been on pace to be the next Jordan it would have been young Luka

Gaining weight will diminish that traditional athleticism. "Fat don't fly" is a real thing.

Why are people trying to rewrite history? Luka has never been considered "traditionally athletic". Never. It was the main reason he was selected 3rd in the draft.

There have always been question marks around his athleticism, he simply immediately proved that these limitations didn't matter since he was just so, so good and able to overcome them with his insane play. Luka has never been good because of his athleticism, it's other things that have made him one of the best offensive players in the league over the last 5 years.

Example from a scouting report, pre 2018 draft:

At 6-foot-8, Doncic has ideal size. He’s versatile enough to play both guard positions, though many think he will transform into a full-time point guard in the NBA. He’s an excellent playmaker. Arguably his best trait is his ability to orchestrate in a half-court set using his superb vision, instincts and high basketball IQ. While he’s not very athletic or agile, and has little to no explosion off the bounce, Doncic is one of the craftiest prospects we’ve seen in a while. Like current NBA players such as James Harden, Evan Fournier and Manu Ginobili, Doncic has remarkably good footwork. He’s so shifty and unpredictable that defenders have a hard time anticipating his movements.

There are concerns about his lack of athleticism and sprightliness, though. He doesn’t slide his feet well laterally, which could make it easy for opponents to play him one-on-one when he’s on an island defensively. Also, though he has unlimited range and good mechanics, Doncic is a streaky long-distance shooter. He’s much more consistent shooting off the bounce and will sometimes settle for inefficient shots if he can’t shake his defender.

Link:https://www.nba.com/magic/2018-draft-prospects-luka-doncic

Another:

Doncic has below average athleticism and will have a big adjustment to make playing against NBA size and speed. There are a lot of questions about who he’ll guard at the next level. He projects as an average defender at best, and possibly a liability on D.

Doncic doesn’t have great foot speed and could struggle to get to the rim against NBA defenders, and his lack of jumping ability will make it hard to score in traffic. He’s got a solid frame but one that is compact, heavy and lacks length.

Can be a little bit sloppy with the ball and needs to tighten up his handles and make better decisions with the ball to avoid careless turnovers.

Can be a streaky shooter, especially from downtown.

Link: https://nbadraftroom.com/luka-doncic-nba-draft-scouting-report/

I could find more examples, these are just the first two sources I found. I'm sure other reports were similar though, I was really into the 2018 draft and I remember various narratives around Luka very well.

Would anyone else but Divac with his agenda have passed on Luka at 2nd? Not sure about main reason.

That said, Luka was never considered "traditionally athletic", he had athleticism, but he was not a jump out of the gym blazing speed athlete at any point and trying to suggest he was is very odd and makes ones observation abilities very questionable.

Part of the problem though is that the traditional sense of athletic that people think of also doesn't take into account strength enough, that is in the sense of being able to keep your path against resistance which many of these guys are. Of course then there are other aspects, but many players have shown it to be true that basketball athleticism is not simply I can run straight really fast, jump really high and have esthetic muscles.

[Jazz9]

Prime Harden had a great first step though

[Richard Miller]

All of them are insanely skilled. Plus Jokic's conditioning is also tremendous being always available. Harden being able to play that well at that age is not too shabby either. None of that is really "redefining athleticism" though

[Nuntius]

The sad part about Luka is that he used to be “traditionally athletic” not too long ago.

Not really. His strength and ability to decelerate were always his biggest athletic strengths. Sure, he did use to have more bounce and he has indeed lost some of his burst but he was never really traditionally athletic. He was always more in the mold of Harden than Wade.