BOS - DAL - PHI - SAC (George/Holiday to SAC)

[bpcox05]

------------------------------

BOS GETS: Malik Monk
BOS GIVES: Jrue Holiday & #28
WHY FOR BOS? The Celtics shed $16.4 mil in payroll next year which gives them huge tax savings while at the same time still getting a productive guard who is just entering his prime (27 years old) who is locked up for the next few years (allowing them to extend their window). Meanwhile, Holiday will be 35 years old at the start of next season.

PG - Monk / Pritchard / Davison
SG - White / Scheierman
SF - Brown / Hauser
PF - Tatum / Walsh
C - Porzingis / Tillman / Queta

------------------------------

DAL GETS: DeMar DeRozan & Jared Butler
DAL GIVES: Caleb Martin, Naji Marshall, & Dwight Powell
WHY FOR DAL? The Mavs add another legit go-to scorer on the wing to go along with Irving and Davis. They’d still have a ton of size, length, and defense in the starting lineup with a frontcourt of Washington, Davis, & Lively (not to mention Gafford off the bench), but then they’d have the luxury of DeRozan leading the bench unit and providing steady offense for when Irving and/or Davis rest. They also add Butler for some cheap PG depth while Irving recovers.

PG - Irving / Williams / Butler
SG - Thompson / Christie / Hardy
SF - Washington / DeRozan
PF - Davis / Prosper
C - Lively / Gafford

------------------------------

PHI GETS: Zach LaVine, Caleb Martin, & Naji Marshall
PHI GIVES: Paul George, Jared Butler, 2028 LAC 1st (Unprotected), & 2030 PHI 1st (Unprotected)
WHY FOR PHI? The 76ers get out of the soon to be 35 year old George's long term contract and take on Lavine who's contract only lasts for the next 2 seasons (with a PO in that 2nd year). LaVine was also a much better scorer than George this past year and will be 30 years old going into next season. Slotting in LaVine as an elite 3rd option is ideal IMO and would flourish with guys like Maxey and Embiid taking the pressure off of him and helping him get easy looks. LaVine is also an absolute sniper from 3 and you can never have enough shooting around Embiid. Marshall gives them a solid forward that can play next to Embiid and help the defense while also giving them some shooting and extra on-ball creation if needed. Martin is a solid role playing forward who helps their depth and can do a bit of everything. Add their top pick from this year's draft, and the 76ers could be right back in the contender conversations next year.

PG - Maxey / McCain
SG - LaVine / Grimes / Gordon / Walker
SF - Oubre / Martin / Council / Edwards
PF - Marshall
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bona

------------------------------

SAC GETS: Paul George, Jrue Holiday, Dwight Powell, #28, 2028 LAC 1st (Unprotected), & 2030 PHI 1st (Unprotected)
SAC GIVES: Zach Lavine, DeMar DeRozan, & Malik Monk
WHY FOR SAC? Holiday gives them a legit PG to help run the offense while also being able to defend at an elite level, space the floor, and provide some scoring. He’ll also be a good mentor for Carter and Ellis. George gives them more length, shooting, and defense from the wing while still giving them a go-to option. This also frees up Ellis to start at SG and you all of a sudden have a very elite defensive 4 around Sabonis who can all space the floor for him (Holiday, Ellis, George, and Murray). If we resign LaRavia and Lyles, we’d have a decent bench in Carter, LaRavia, Lyles, and Valanciunas to help fill in when injuries hit. In a nut shell, this trade does a few things for the Kings...

1.) Make the Kings more competitive next season (the team is MUCH more complementary)
2.) Establish a tough, hard nosed, defensive culture (essentially the entire roster is filled with good defenders/players that don’t take plays off)
3.) Improve the future outlook of their team. The Kings would still have all of their future 1sts (2026-2032), #28 this year, the 2027 SAS 1st (Unprotected), the 2028 LAC 1st (Unprotected), the 2030 PHI 1st (Unprotected), and the 2031 MIN 1st (Unprotected). That's a lot of draft capital to work with.
4.) Holiday is a great mentor for Carter & Ellis and can hand over the reigns as he continues to age. George is a solid mentor/archetype for Murray to emulate and can hand over the reigns as he continues to age.

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - Ellis / Davis
SF - George
PF - Murray / Jones
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas / Powell

------------------------------

[Texas Chuck]

I don't see the difference between George and LaVine as 2 unprotected 1sts plus can they trade back for Martin yet?

[Jojothewhale]

The Sixers decide to pay multiple unprotected picks with their best player potentially never healthy again in service of adding a guy that doesn't overlap well with Maxey and McCain and a guy they just traded away?

It's not about value. None of these PG trades are. They're complete non-starters because he's not worth enough to trade him. It will never make sense. Doesn't matter where he goes.

[psman2]

I know it an unpopular opinion but I rather ride it out with George than Lavine straight up for the sixers. Better roster fit and higher upside to just stay put. Likely doesn't work out with George but Lavine is not a good lineup fit and doesn't upgrade the upside of that roster.

[hugepatsfan]

I doubt BOS is interested in Monk on their team, but value here seems fine for them (arguably even too good, depending on how teams view Jrue the contract vs. Jrue the player) if they choose to make a financially motivated deal. I imagine this deal could be expanded to a 5th team or BOS could just do a separate follow up to flip Monk for a player they like more, maybe even possibly adding another pick.

[the_process]

I know it an unpopular opinion but I rather ride it out with George than Lavine straight up for the sixers. Better roster fit and higher upside to just stay put. Likely doesn't work out with George but Lavine is not a good lineup fit and doesn't upgrade the upside of that roster.

I'd definitely rather ride it out with George than LaVine.

I also disagree with the consensus here that George can only be traded with a boatload of firsts attached.

And there's also the fact the Sixers are inappropriately going to run it back and pretend Joel will be healthy.

[ejftw]

Think for this to have even a slight chance, the two firsts Philly sends would have to be option to swap and not straight up. While George is the worst contract in the league (or second if you want to go with Beal), it runs just a year longer than Zach while being a better fit.

The thought of Maxey-McCain-LaVine being your guard trio is scary on how bad the defense will be.

[LightTheBeam]

Lavine sucks, I cannot stand him as a player. But the premise here seems to be that the Kings want try and win? If that's the case, I'd much rather have LaVine, & Marshall over PG. This also eliminates Philly fans objection here.

Just add Brooklyn instead of Philly. Route Martin, Powell, #28 to Brooklyn. Martin should be an asset at the deadline. Powell expires. Seems like a reasonable cost.

Kings roll with
Holiday - LaVine - Murray - Marshall - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JV

Which in reality, should be competing for a top 6 seed. You have tons of length and defense surrounding LaVine/Sabonis, and you split up the toxic trio of Lavine, Monk, Derozan which clearly doesn't work.

[BoogieTime]

yet again, George is among the worst contracts in the league, and doesn't play positive basketball anymore

And the age of the players don't line up to prime bball (which is another factor you often overlook)

[bpcox05]

yet again, George is among the worst contracts in the league, and doesn't play positive basketball anymore

And the age of the players don't line up to prime bball (which is another factor you often overlook)

Well essentially every advanced impact stat disagrees with you regarding your point about George not playing positive basketball anymore. Care to back up that statement with any evidence?

The age of the players is not overlooked considering I literally mentioned how old George and Holiday are in my post. What seems to be overlooked is my reasoning for why the deal makes sense for the Kings.

[bpcox05]

But the premise here seems to be that the Kings want try and win?

Yes and no.

We all know Vivek is not going to allow this team to rebuild so I’m operating from that premise. What this trade does do is make us a better basketball team next year (what Vivek wants) while improving our future outlook (what many of us want by rebuilding).

We could still resign LaRavia and Lyles in this scenario, so it comes down to which of these rosters is better. If being competitive next year is the goal, would you rather have Roster A…

PG - Monk / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis
SF - DeRozan / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

…or would you rather have Roster B…

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - Ellis
SF - George / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

I’d much rather have roster B. That’s 4 excellent, versatile, athletic, lengthy defenders who can all space the floor at a high level around Sabonis. Not to mention Roster B has a legitimate PG in Holiday to facilitate the offense. In general, the roster is wayyy more complementary and balanced, and I think it would also help maximize Sabonis’ game with that amount of shooting, defense, and length around him.

Now on top of being better next year, I think it sets us up better for the future as well since we’re adding 3 more 1st round picks which means we’d have 12 1sts over the next 8 years…

2025 BOS 1st
2026 SAC 1st
2027 SAC 1st
2027 SAS 1st (Unprotected)
2028 SAC 1st
2028 LAC 1st (Unprotected)
2029 SAC 1st
2030 SAC 1st
2030 PHI 1st (Unprotected)
2031 SAC 1st (SAS has rights to swap)
2031 MIN 1st (Unprotected)
2032 SAC 1st

That’s a lot of draft capital to rebuild/retool with so even though we have some aging stars on the team that are helping keep Vivek’s agenda alive and well (e.g., be competitive now), we’re also low key rebuilding in the background for when guys like George and Holiday decline, retire, etc.

Also, I think having a guy like Holiday teach/mentor Carter and Ellis is a plus and having a guy like George teach/mentor a guy like Murray is a plus. The archetypes of those two vets is what we’d want Carter, Ellis, and Murray to develop into. Not saying they’re going to develop into perennial all stars but I could see them teach those guys a thing or two that could help improve their games.

[bpcox05]

I doubt BOS is interested in Monk on their team, but value here seems fine for them (arguably even too good, depending on how teams view Jrue the contract vs. Jrue the player) if they choose to make a financially motivated deal. I imagine this deal could be expanded to a 5th team or BOS could just do a separate follow up to flip Monk for a player they like more, maybe even possibly adding another pick.

What type of player would BOS be interested in instead of Monk? Any ideas for a player that makes around the same money as Monk?

[hugepatsfan]

I doubt BOS is interested in Monk on their team, but value here seems fine for them (arguably even too good, depending on how teams view Jrue the contract vs. Jrue the player) if they choose to make a financially motivated deal. I imagine this deal could be expanded to a 5th team or BOS could just do a separate follow up to flip Monk for a player they like more, maybe even possibly adding another pick.

What type of player would BOS be interested in instead of Monk? Any ideas for a player that makes around the same money as Monk?

I think their preference would be a wing or front court player. It seems like Horford will end up back next year based on the vibes around him right now, but that's not certain and even if it is that well will run dry eventually. Kornet might get bigger offers elsewhere after a really good year, especially if he proves playoff functional. Porzingis likely gone after his current deal expires after next year barring a huge paycut or something else changing in their roster to make room (Hauser or Pritchard out? Jrue off the books completely?). Gafford gets mentioned a lot, as an example of someone who could add front court depth.

Also, I think because of the unique defensive versatility they go with Jrue and White in the backcourt, but if they ever lost Jrue I think they might prefer to replace him with a wing sized player to replace the defensive versatility. Someone like Patrick Williams from CHI, for example. They'd play White as the PG and then Brown as the "SG" and Williams/Tatum splitting the F spots.

[LightTheBeam]

But the premise here seems to be that the Kings want try and win?

Yes and no.

We all know Vivek is not going to allow this team to rebuild so I’m operating from that premise. What this trade does do is make us a better basketball team next year (what Vivek wants) while improving our future outlook (what many of us want by rebuilding).

We could still resign LaRavia and Lyles in this scenario, so it comes down to which of these rosters is better. If being competitive next year is the goal, would you rather have Roster A…

PG - Monk / Carter
SG - LaVine / Ellis
SF - DeRozan / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

…or would you rather have Roster B…

PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - Ellis
SF - George / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

I’d much rather have roster B. That’s 4 excellent, versatile, athletic, lengthy defenders who can all space the floor at a high level around Sabonis. Not to mention Roster B has a legitimate PG in Holiday to facilitate the offense. In general, the roster is wayyy more complementary and balanced, and I think it would also help maximize Sabonis’ game with that amount of shooting, defense, and length around him.

Now on top of being better next year, I think it sets us up better for the future as well since we’re adding 3 more 1st round picks which means we’d have 12 1sts over the next 8 years…

2025 BOS 1st
2026 SAC 1st
2027 SAC 1st
2027 SAS 1st (Unprotected)
2028 SAC 1st
2028 LAC 1st (Unprotected)
2029 SAC 1st
2030 SAC 1st
2030 PHI 1st (Unprotected)
2031 SAC 1st (SAS has rights to swap)
2031 MIN 1st (Unprotected)
2032 SAC 1st

That’s a lot of draft capital to rebuild/retool with so even though we have some aging stars on the team that are helping keep Vivek’s agenda alive and well (e.g., be competitive now), we’re also low key rebuilding in the background for when guys like George and Holiday decline, retire, etc.

Also, I think having a guy like Holiday teach/mentor Carter and Ellis is a plus and having a guy like George teach/mentor a guy like Murray is a plus. The archetypes of those two vets is what we’d want Carter, Ellis, and Murray to develop into. Not saying they’re going to develop into perennial all stars but I could see them teach those guys a thing or two that could help improve their games.

I get the idea. But 1. I don't think Philly is paying those picks for LaVine, they are stuck with Embiid and would rather risk the two stay healthy.

Also I'm done with the team staying in both lanes. We've done that for an eternity. We have never truly tanked under vivek, and we have never actually went all in. Pick a side and stick with it.

If you want to tank, you route Holiday elsewhere and move Sabonis ASAP. If you want to try and compete (which Vivek always does) then you keep LaVine/Marshall and go with

Option C
PG - Holiday / Carter
SG - Lavine / Ellis
SF - Marshall / LaRavia
PF - Murray / Lyles
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

And again as much as I dislike LaVine, I think theres some reality behind him being a night and day different player when hes playing iso ball with Demar. My hope would be he accepts playing within the flow of an offense around guys like Holiday/Sabonis. And that team has 6 + defenders. The starting lineup has 3 stud defenders. I think you can mask LaVines defense much easier playing with Ellis, Holiday, Carter, LaRavia, Murray, Naji than you can when he plays with Demar, Monk and Sabonis.

[jayjaysee]

Yeah, I can’t see Philly paying that asking price.

Not arguing PG is a negative contract, but those are two really high upside picks.

[hugepatsfan]

I think if SAC is committed to a Sabonis/Lavine pairing, Holiday really would be a great fit right now. He's got that good balance of on ball/off ball offensive game to where he can play off of those guys while providing necessary secondary ball handling (like he does with BOS really, since they have to many other ball handlers to share with). And then obviously defensively, he fills what is a traditionally weaker or limited position at PG (because it's the smallest position on the court so even the best defenders often are limited) with a versatile defender to help make up for other weaknesses on that end.

The problem is how he ages on his contract. Not sure Lavine/Sabonis has much of a ceiling to begin with, and it's hard to then allocate a third huge salary slot on someone who's aging. Not to mention Murray probably eventually signing a sizable contract even though he's really not more than a role player once you get over the hope everyone has that every young player keeps growing and growing even though eventually they all peak.

[bpcox05]

I doubt BOS is interested in Monk on their team, but value here seems fine for them (arguably even too good, depending on how teams view Jrue the contract vs. Jrue the player) if they choose to make a financially motivated deal. I imagine this deal could be expanded to a 5th team or BOS could just do a separate follow up to flip Monk for a player they like more, maybe even possibly adding another pick.

What type of player would BOS be interested in instead of Monk? Any ideas for a player that makes around the same money as Monk?

I think their preference would be a wing or front court player. It seems like Horford will end up back next year based on the vibes around him right now, but that's not certain and even if it is that well will run dry eventually. Kornet might get bigger offers elsewhere after a really good year, especially if he proves playoff functional. Porzingis likely gone after his current deal expires after next year barring a huge paycut or something else changing in their roster to make room (Hauser or Pritchard out? Jrue off the books completely?). Gafford gets mentioned a lot, as an example of someone who could add front court depth.

Also, I think because of the unique defensive versatility they go with Jrue and White in the backcourt, but if they ever lost Jrue I think they might prefer to replace him with a wing sized player to replace the defensive versatility. Someone like Patrick Williams from CHI, for example. They'd play White as the PG and then Brown as the "SG" and Williams/Tatum splitting the F spots.

I don’t think CHI would be interested in trading Williams for Monk so not sure that target will work in this specific framework. What do you think about the framework of these deals (picks would be added to balance value)?

Option #1
BOS GETS: Jonathan Isaac
ORL GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Option #2
BOS GETS: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
ORL GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Option #3
BOS GETS: Isaiah Stewart
DET GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Are those the types of targets BOS would be interested in more?

[hugepatsfan]

What type of player would BOS be interested in instead of Monk? Any ideas for a player that makes around the same money as Monk?

I think their preference would be a wing or front court player. It seems like Horford will end up back next year based on the vibes around him right now, but that's not certain and even if it is that well will run dry eventually. Kornet might get bigger offers elsewhere after a really good year, especially if he proves playoff functional. Porzingis likely gone after his current deal expires after next year barring a huge paycut or something else changing in their roster to make room (Hauser or Pritchard out? Jrue off the books completely?). Gafford gets mentioned a lot, as an example of someone who could add front court depth.

Also, I think because of the unique defensive versatility they go with Jrue and White in the backcourt, but if they ever lost Jrue I think they might prefer to replace him with a wing sized player to replace the defensive versatility. Someone like Patrick Williams from CHI, for example. They'd play White as the PG and then Brown as the "SG" and Williams/Tatum splitting the F spots.

I don’t think CHI would be interested in trading Williams for Monk so not sure that target will work in this specific framework. What do you think about the framework of these deals (picks would be added to balance value)?

Option #1
BOS GETS: Jonathan Isaac
ORL GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Option #2
BOS GETS: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
ORL GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Option #3
BOS GETS: Isaiah Stewart
DET GETS: Malik Monk
SAC GETS: Jrue Holiday

Are those the types of targets BOS would be interested in more?

Feel like Stewart would be the only one of those guys that specifically interests them. If they move Jrue it's going to be a financially motivated decision so they may have to take a guy they don't love. That's just how it goes when you make financially motivated trades.