What is this knicks problem in the pacers series?

[walk with me]

I’m curious why everyone thinks the knicks are struggling but I’ve boiled the potential issues into 3 categories. Vote which you think is holding the knicks back most.

Cat 1 = player issues: by this I mean the coaching and roster design is fine but guys are delivering. Poor decision making, poor execution. Guys missing shots when being set up properly. Etc

Cat 2 = roster issues: this would go back to the GM. You have kat and Jalen as your key cogs. It’s up to the GM to find the right support for these guys to execute. If the players on the roster aren’t correct, then the key cogs won’t look their best, regardless of who’s coaching or how players are executing

Cat 3 = coaching issues: this would reflect back all on thibs. In the roster good enough to win it all or atleast beat the pacers but his emphasis and sub patters aren’t elevating them? Are all the players good enough but the units he putting out suck?

[bkkrh]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

[Catchall]

Knicks have limited on-ball creation. They depend a lot on Brunson to try to create advantages for other players. Brunson can score, but he isn't as capable an advantage creator as Haliburton. The Pacers are also a slightly better shooting team. That's been the difference.

[Karate Diop]

They're two pretty evenly matched teams and both games have been close... This isn't like the last series for them where Boston was clearly superior but choked.

Can the Knicks win his series? Sure. But anyone who had them as hands down favorites thinking that they'd easily walk through this series clearly didn't watch a single minute of them in the playoffs...

[JujitsuFlip]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

You all can't let the Pacers shoot 40%+ from 3. That is where it starts and ends.

[walk with me]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

Why even respond if this is your response lol?

[FreeBird23]

Pacers are just better. Deeper bench, better coach.
Maybe some overconfidence by NY

[bkkrh]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

You all can't let the Pacers shoot 40%+ from 3. That is where it starts and ends.

Generally you are of course right, but if you look at the actual box scores you see that in game one it was basically Aaron Nesmith shooting 8 from 9. The rest of the team went 7 from 29. Same as SIakam having an insane 2nd game.

The Pacers are a tough opponent, I think a lot of people forget that they were completely out of the Playoff race at the start of the season. They are one of the best teams in the league in the 2nd half of the season and they were already here last year with pretty much the same roster. So that those games are this close and mostly decided by some freakish performances doesn't make me feel great to lose, but on the other side definitely gives me the impression that we can beat them any night as well.

It'll be tough coming back from 0-2, but I don't see the series over yet. Can't really blame the players or any of the other mentioned areas. Jalen is doing his thing, KAT had a good 1st game, we knew that we lost our depth in free agency and the trades we did, so while Thibs is Thibs there isn't really much left of on the bench besides the players he already plays.

[TinmanZBoy]

A bit of luck a bit of execution down the stretch when Pacers are always relentless and loose, while Knicks do or die by Brunson’s prayers beyond the three points line

[taikibansei]

Knicks have limited on-ball creation. They depend a lot on Brunson to try to create advantages for other players. Brunson can score, but he isn't as capable an advantage creator as Haliburton. The Pacers are also a slightly better shooting team. That's been the difference.

Not sure the bit in bold is true. What's happening is that the Pacers are staying with the other players on drives and pnrs, reducing his passing opportunities and basically daring Brunson to beat them on their own. Brunson's good, but he's not that good.

Now, a good coach would adjust, maybe diversifying our offense by going back to the freer five-out offense we instituted (out of necessity) after Brunson got hurt. It would be nice if we could bring back that offense where every guy touched it rather than Brunson/Karl-Anthony Towns pick-and-rolls or isolations on every possession--among other things, this would make us less predictable in the half-court, but also potentially allow OG, Hart and Mikal more opportunities to shine.

But instead, we have a coach who refuses to adjust, and who has our best play-maker taking out the **** ball for in-bound plays in crunch time (and then shaking his head vigorously at the resulting turnover).

We are doomed.

[cgf]

They’re a really good team and have won two close games. The first we gassed in but last night they just beat us

We can still make this a series…we’ve been better on the road…but if not; more chemistry, an 8th man, and our kids getting some more seasoning should help a lot next year.

[bkkrh]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

Why even respond if this is your response lol?

Because none of your options make any real sense. We lose close games. I can't blame players for who they are and always were. Blaming the front office on roster construction makes 0 sense when we are currently in our most successful season since 2000 and everybody understands that we gave up or roster depth for more talent. There is no point in blaming Thibs for coaching the exact same way he has always coached and also not having any real options on the bench.

It's like saying Shaq being a poor Free Throw shooter is the reason why the Magic/Lakers/whoever didn't win a title in a specific season, when he is simulaneously the whole reason they were even in a position to compete.

Nobody viewed us as title candidate before the season, a lot of people expected us to be worse than last year. Making it to the conference finals is already kind of above expectations in that sense. We play a tough team that went 15-4 in their last 19 regular season games, has more depth, plays longer together, made it to the conference finals last season with the same roster and beat Giannis in the first round and the team with the best record in the east in the 2nd.

So in that sense the main problem of the Knicks is that we lose closely against a team that is best case equal to us, but more likely a bit better.

[Marvin Martian]

1. They do not have a 2 way big man. If they use KAT, there will be no resistance at the rim. If they use Robinson, IND can hack him and then watch him miss free throws

2. Bad execution down the stretch. Brunson has been good but only at scoring. He has done a bad job at staying disciplined and managing the clock

[walk with me]

I'd say our main problem until now was that in both games we scored a few points less than the Pacers. If we manage to score more points than them next game, I'm pretty sure we'll win the game, heck if we manage to do this 4 times within the next 5 games even the whole series.

Why even respond if this is your response lol?

Because none of your options make any real sense. We lose close games. I can't blame players for who they are and always were. Blaming the front office on roster construction makes 0 sense when we are currently in our most successful season since 2000 and everybody understands that we gave up or roster depth for more talent. There is no point in blaming Thibs for coaching the exact same way he has always coached and also not having any real options on the bench.

It's like saying Shaq being a poor Free Throw shooter is the reason why the Magic/Lakers/whoever didn't win a title in a specific season, when he is simulaneously the whole reason they were even in a position to compete.

Nobody viewed us as title candidate before the season, a lot of people expected us to be worse than last year. Making it to the conference finals is already kind of above expectations in that sense. We play a tough team that went 15-4 in their last 19 regular season games, has more depth, plays longer together, made it to the conference finals last season with the same roster and beat Giannis in the first round and the team with the best record in the east in the 2nd.

So in that sense the main problem of the Knicks is that we lose closely against a team that is best case equal to us, but more likely a bit better.

If that’s how you feel then just say the team is fine and losing to the better team. Maybe I should have included that option. It’s not a bad answer.

[bkkrh]

Why even respond if this is your response lol?

Because none of your options make any real sense. We lose close games. I can't blame players for who they are and always were. Blaming the front office on roster construction makes 0 sense when we are currently in our most successful season since 2000 and everybody understands that we gave up or roster depth for more talent. There is no point in blaming Thibs for coaching the exact same way he has always coached and also not having any real options on the bench.

It's like saying Shaq being a poor Free Throw shooter is the reason why the Magic/Lakers/whoever didn't win a title in a specific season, when he is simulaneously the whole reason they were even in a position to compete.

Nobody viewed us as title candidate before the season, a lot of people expected us to be worse than last year. Making it to the conference finals is already kind of above expectations in that sense. We play a tough team that went 15-4 in their last 19 regular season games, has more depth, plays longer together, made it to the conference finals last season with the same roster and beat Giannis in the first round and the team with the best record in the east in the 2nd.

So in that sense the main problem of the Knicks is that we lose closely against a team that is best case equal to us, but more likely a bit better.

If that’s how you feel then just say the team is fine and losing to the better team. Maybe I should have included that option. It’s not a bad answer.

Yep that would make actually sense, or maybe just "other" as option.

[Wingy]

Knicks have limited on-ball creation. They depend a lot on Brunson to try to create advantages for other players. Brunson can score, but he isn't as capable an advantage creator as Haliburton. The Pacers are also a slightly better shooting team. That's been the difference.

Yes, and no. I think they rely way too much on Brunson when they have other guys who can create offense. In the game 1 collapse, Brunson was basically calling his own number the entire time. Remember when the Knicks went on a massive run with him on the bench? I think that’s on Thibs and on Brunson. Coach has got to use more of the team, and best player needs to check his own ego.

Meanwhile, the bench is really thin. They used a ton of resources to create that starting lineup.

Of course a ton of people will go for the convenient Thibs punching bag. But who is he really supposed to play? As a Bulls fan, I can point to him giving plenty of run to a rookie Omer Asik. If you can play, he’ll play you. I’m not sure where people want him to reach on this roster.

[sp6r=underrated]

I’m curious why everyone thinks the knicks are struggling but I’ve boiled the potential issues into 3 categories. Vote which you think is holding the knicks back most.

Cat 1 = player issues: by this I mean the coaching and roster design is fine but guys are delivering. Poor decision making, poor execution. Guys missing shots when being set up properly. Etc

Cat 2 = roster issues: this would go back to the GM. You have kat and Jalen as your key cogs. It’s up to the GM to find the right support for these guys to execute. If the players on the roster aren’t correct, then the key cogs won’t look their best, regardless of who’s coaching or how players are executing

Cat 3 = coaching issues: this would reflect back all on thibs. In the roster good enough to win it all or atleast beat the pacers but his emphasis and sub patters aren’t elevating them? Are all the players good enough but the units he putting out suck?

The biggest issue is in Game One they just choked. They outplayed Indiana throughout the game and threw it away. They made significant mistakes throughout the final minutes of that game: terrible passes, missed FTs, poor clock management, bad close-outs, etc. If they had just performed at a below average level they win that game. Instead NY did what Boston did against NY. In Game Two, Indy outplayed em by a decent margin.

It is unlikely NY wins this series but their problem is primarily choking in Game One. If the series was 1-1 as it should have been they'd be in much better shape.

I'm not sure how to categorize this under your umbrella. Management built a good but not elite team. Building an elite team is extremely hard so I can't fault them for it. They correctly identified an under-utilized player in Brunson and built a solid team around him. That's impressive.

I guess I would say G1 was Cat 1/3, with Thibs non-development of the bench a massive problem because it creates fatigue issues. In G2 it was Cat2, Indiana was just better.

[tmorgan]

Most of the issues are on defense.

The Knicks were a very good offensive team this year, but it’s problematic when your two best offensive players are not good defenders. In order to make the offense hum, you need Brunson and KAT out there, which leaves you with a guy anyone can shoot over and a guy that doesn’t protect the rim well. Obviously the wings are strong defenders, but that matters less against a team that moves the ball as well as Indiana does. They find the holes.

And yeah, playing seven guys doesn’t help. Hard not to get gassed.

[bisme37]

You can always bring up a lot of things when analyzing a game/series, but one of them is the Knicks defense is worst in the league at guarding the 3pt line and they've now come across a team that isn't missing their open 3's.

[JonFromVA]

Well the Knicks managed to slow the pace down in game 2, but they've struggled all season against teams which can generate offense AND defend and they've let opponents embarrass them at MSG over and over

They can't afford to play games on D, they need to find a way to defend all 5 pacers and Brunson always gives the Pacers someone they can pick on. May have to just out-shoot them and somehow keep it up for 48.

That the Knicks have kept things close is an improvement over what we might had seen ...