Joe Dumars, if you're reading this, please do something...

HeroicKennedy · Post #1 » by **HeroicKennedy** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:53 pm

I want you to take your hands.

And sit on them.

Don't you dare make a "blockbuster" deal. Don't trade away/gut the team to match these other moves.

If you want to do a small deal like Murray for a second rounder or our expirings for Kurt Thomas, fine.

Wait, what the hell am I doing? Joey D would never do something that dumb.

bstein14 · Post #2 » by **bstein14** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:06 pm

When was the last time Dumars traded away a started at the deadline?

triplet1984 · Post #3 » by **triplet1984** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:10 pm

HeroicKennedy wrote:If you want to do a small deal like Murray for a second rounder or our expirings for Kurt Thomas, fine.

...you just blew my mind. That would be AWESOME.

Master Shake · Post #4 » by **Master Shake** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:22 pm

The more I think about it, I think this trade deadline is different. Dumars badly needed to free us of Mohammed's deal. Charlotte does that for us, we do this far before the trade deadline so we have a large number of expiring contracts to entice teams. Masterful move.

Sam Presti I believe his name is, the GM for Seattle, is an understudy of Dumars. Obviously we have the correct ties to trade with Seattle, we have the expiring contracts, and some extra draft picks. Given Dumars' connection with Seattle, I really think we could grab Kurt Thomas. Throw in some cash to buy out Brezec maybe...

Low-Ki · Post #5 » by **Low-Ki** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:35 pm

I don't think Kurt Thomas could be had without including our first rounder. Furthermore he'd cost us Herrmann, Brezec and Murray, and I have a feeling we have plans for Herrmann yet.

Now we could use the Dallas-Stackhouse scenario and trade McDyess, cash and a first rounder to Seattle for Thomas. They buyout McDyess with the money we sent them and he waits 30 days and then signs here for the vets minimum. Then come the off-season we use the MLE to sign McDyess for two more seasons.

So after the 30 days, we'd have traded our first rounder for Kurt Thomas without trading away any of our depth.

Scott Perry was the "understudy" from Detroit. I believe he is the assistant GM or whatever his title is there.

From what I understand they're not going to give Thomas away unless he asks to be moved. They like his veteran leadership and value that as much more important than a second rounder or whatever teams could be offering (along with expirings).

nasty daddy · Post #6 » by **nasty daddy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:13 am

Low-Ki wrote:I don't think Kurt Thomas could be had without including our first rounder. Furthermore he'd cost us Herrmann, Brezec and Murray, and I have a feeling we have plans for Herrmann yet.

Now we could use the Dallas-Stackhouse scenario and trade McDyess, cash and a first rounder to Seattle for Thomas. They buyout McDyess with the money we sent them and he waits 30 days and then signs here for the vets minimum. Then come the off-season we use the MLE to sign McDyess for two more seasons.

So after the 30 days, we'd have traded our first rounder for Kurt Thomas without trading away any of our depth.

Scott Perry was the "understudy" from Detroit. I believe he is the assistant GM or whatever his title is there.

From what I understand they're not going to give Thomas away unless he asks to be moved. They like his veteran leadership and value that as much more important than a second rounder or whatever teams could be offering (along with expirings).

Seattle i think had to give up a first rounder pick to get Thomas in the first place, I'm not sure who else was involved in the trade that got him from Phoenix, but he is a big part of Seattle's rebuilding process.

tmorgan · Post #7 » by **tmorgan** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:17 am

Actually, Nasty, they RECEIVED TWO first rounders to take him. :-)

Phoenix runs an ultra-tight ship (well, everyone thought they did until they picked up Shaq) and bribed Seattle to get them under the cap.

Train Wreck · Post #8 » by **Train Wreck** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:29 am

nasty daddy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Seattle i think had to give up a first rounder pick to get Thomas in the first place, I'm not sure who else was involved in the trade that got him from Phoenix, but he is a big part of Seattle's rebuilding process.

No they didn't.... They recieved 2 to take on his salary..

They like him in Seattle but he is not part of their rebuilding process... How could he be?

HeroicKennedy · Post #9 » by **HeroicKennedy** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:50 am

My question is: are we really going to use the MLE?

I mean, is there anyone this offseason that's really worth it? And whoever we bring in is going to cut time away from our young bench. Assuming we just let our expirings go, we have Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell, and Amir. Whoever we add is going to cut time away from those players, and is there really anyone that good that we'd be able to get for the MLE. I mean, c'mon, if Varejao is getting 8 million a year and he's a scrub, what can we get?

Liqourish · Post #10 » by **Liqourish** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:57 am

^ it's mostly about filling out the roster.

Hunter/Murray/Herrmann/Brezec/Hayes are all FA's after this season. Leaving us with 10 signed players (including Samb) and you have to have at least 12 or 13 players signed to your roster.

Assuming Joe drafts two players and signs them both... we would still need a backup SF. We could re-sign Herrmann or Hayes but if we did we would need to use at least a part of the MLE to do so.

C. Billups/R. Stuckey
R. Hamilton/A. Afflalo
T. Prince/???
A. McDyess/J. Maxiell/A. Johnson
R. Wallace/???/ C. Samb (d-league)

Joe could draft a Center prospect in the 1st and the BPA at # 59, but we'd still need a backup SF and we're stil thin in the backcourt if god forbid an injury happened.

Post #11 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:16 am

Joe D has never to my memory made a deal done in order to "keep up" with another team.

He'll keep his mind open to possible improvements to the team, maybe explore a few options. Im never in favor of us "sitting on our hands", theres always the chance you can get better.

But Id never for a second believe he'd ever feel compelled to do a deal just to keep up with other teams. If Boston landing Allen and KG didnt force his hand in that way, nothing will.

Grey · Post #12 » by **Grey** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:10 am

Those other teams are making deals to "keep up" with us.

Master Shake · Post #13 » by **Master Shake** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:33 pm

Low-Ki wrote: Scott Perry was the "understudy" from Detroit. I believe he is the assistant GM or whatever his title is there.

From what I understand they're not going to give Thomas away unless he asks to be moved. They like his veteran leadership and value that as much more important than a second rounder or whatever teams could be offering (along with expirings).

Thanks I couldn't remember his name.

In regards to our MLE, yes, we should use it, there are so many quality free agents this summer looking to get paid, but the owners are refusing to pay the tax for the most part. Guys like Pietrus, Barnes, Childress, and many more will all be free agents, and won't be getting good deals. I doubt we grab a quality big man in free agency, but we can most certainly add a quality backup swingman, we really should target Childress.

triplet1984 · Post #14 » by **triplet1984** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:41 pm

we should use our MLE on a good wingman. Hayes is ok for this season but i'm not impressed with a no-defense jump-chucker unless he were to shoot something ridiculous like 60%.

Post #15 » by **roc** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:04 pm

Chilldress would be the perfect target but he is restricted so...

Manocad · Post #16 » by **Manocad** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:11 pm

Grey wrote:Those other teams are making deals to "keep up" with us.

Bingo.

GJense4181 · Post #17 » by **GJense4181** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:18 pm

Has anybody seen this trade offer between New Jersey and Memphis?
Nachbar and Magloire for MIKE MILLER?

How does Joe not come up with a counter-offer for this?

We have inactive players better than these two! Flip Murray, Jarvis Hayes, Primoz Brezec, and Lindsey Hunter for Mike Miller. We send cash so they can waive Lindsey and have us re-sign him a month later (again), since they couldn't use him anyway.

We become:
Billups/Stuckey/Hunter**
Hamilton/Miller/Afflalo
Prince/Miller/Hermann
McDyess/Johnson/Hermann
Wallace/Maxiell/Samb*
With Samb inactive for the playoff run when Lindsey comes back.

Thoughts? Pretty much our current rotation with a HUGE upgrade at the backup swing position.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4506358

Liqourish · Post #18 » by **Liqourish** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:48 pm

If Kidd is traded to Dallas, New Jersey will have a PG... Devin Harris. Who is light years better than Flip Murray any day of the week. And I don't see how us sending Flip for Miller affects NJ's backcourt rotation.

I really like Mike Miller. I think he's the player we were hoping Jarvis would be for us. I doubt Joe would wanna pay Miller the $18,750,000 price tag he has for the two years after this one, especially for a bench player.

Although if Joe wouldn't mind paying basically $20 million +lux tax for a bench guy, even one as good as Miller, I would love to see him here.

Low-Ki · Post #19 » by **Low-Ki** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:12 am

It's cost prohibitive prohibitive. We'd be over the tax for the next two years, and it would throw our salary structure out of whack. Come play-off time, Prince and Hamilton will be playing 35+ mpg, leaving at most 26 minutes available for Miller. That would also relegate Stuckey to purely back-up 2-guard minutes, and doom Afflalo to the bench.

I think we're likely going to dance with the girl who we brought to the dance at this stage.

GJense4181 · Post #20 » by **GJense4181** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:44 am

Liquorish: I was caught in-between posts AND had NJ on my mind because of the wiretap. Next time I don't make sense, it's because of a total brain-fart (like that) and not because my basketball wisdom is under-developed to the point that I couldn't tell that Devin Harris>Flip Murray.
To Low-Ki: What is the point of flipping expiring contracts for a super-sub, then? Are we not planning on re-signing the acquired player? In the Ron Artest/Brad Miller scenarios, how much did we expect to re-up them for? MLE-type money? I think not.

If you want an upgrade at backup SF to mask Hayes' inadequacies and make up for Tayshaun's inconsistencies, it will cost us a) salary and b) playing time to Afflalo and possibly Stuckey as well. a) applies to finding a backup C, as well, except this would impact Amir's PT, most likely.