Pacers/Nets/Raps/Kings Oneal/Carter/Ford/Artest

[bluestar]

Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Toronto, Sacramento, New Jersey and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Toronto, Sacramento, New Jersey and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Trade ID #4518282




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Toronto Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -3.4 ppg, +3.4 rpg, and -3.6 apg.

Incoming Players
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 38.4 minutes
Jamaal Magloire
6-11 C from Kentucky
1.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.8 minutes

Outgoing Players
T.J. Ford
5-11 PG from Texas
12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.6 apg in 23.8 minutes
Jason Kapono
6-8 SF from UCLA
8.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20.1 minutes
Joey Graham
6-7 SF from Oklahoma State
3.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.8 minutes

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -0.8 ppg, -4.3 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

Incoming Players
T.J. Ford
5-11 PG from Texas
12.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 6.6 apg in 23.8 minutes
Bostjan Nachbar
6-9 PF from Slovenia (Foreign)
10.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.4 minutes
David Harrison
7-0 C from Colorado
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.7 minutes

Outgoing Players
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 38.4 minutes
Mikki Moore
7-0 C from Nebraska
8.0 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 28.8 minutes

New Jersey Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -13.1 ppg, -3.0 rpg, and -3.7 apg.

Incoming Players
Joey Graham
6-7 SF from Oklahoma State
3.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.8 minutes
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
15.3 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 31.3 minutes

Outgoing Players
Vince Carter
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
20.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 5.2 apg in 38.4 minutes
Jamaal Magloire
6-11 C from Kentucky
1.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.8 minutes
Bostjan Nachbar
6-9 PF from Slovenia (Foreign)
10.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.4 minutes

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +17.3 ppg, +3.9 rpg, and +4.1 apg.

Incoming Players
Jason Kapono
6-8 SF from UCLA
8.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20.1 minutes
Mikki Moore
7-0 C from Nebraska
8.0 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 28.8 minutes
Vince Carter
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
20.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 5.2 apg in 38.4 minutes

Outgoing Players
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
15.3 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 31.3 minutes
David Harrison
7-0 C from Colorado
4.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.7 minutes

Kings get their PG to move into the future with in Ford. He would look great next to Martin. His ability to drive and kick would help out this team tremondously. Still at the young age of 24 Ford's best days are ahead of him. Now can the King's look past TJ's past injury situation to accept this deal?

Nets try to clean house with Kidd now apperaing to be gone to Dallas. Thorn decides to get a big that would more compliment the newly aquired Harris and RJ tandem.

The Raps take their chances with the ever violatile Artest in hopes he can be the SF they desperatly need to push them into the upper tier of the East with the likes of Detroit, Boston and Orlando.

The Pacers ever growing tired of Oneal deal him for Carter who when motivated can carry a team. Bird and Walsh decides to switch it up and become a more face break perimeter oriented team.

Anyhow Bash Away!

[Smills91]

Change Mikki Moore to a Kenny Thomas and you're closer.

[legacyinthemakin89c]

Change Mikki Moore to a Kenny Thomas and you're closer.

Haha no way, getting just Ford for Artest is lucky, but then you also get Nachbar. Thats way more then Artest is worth.

[YeahYeahYeah]

Normally big trades like this don't make any sense, but this is a pretty nice attempt at fairness on all sides.

[Smills91]

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Haha no way, getting just Ford for Artest is lucky, but then you also get Nachbar. Thats way more then Artest is worth.

We just dumped Bibby for expirings...why would we move 'essentially' an expiring contract for a guy with 4 years left on his deal without moving an unwanted contract. Mikki's solid would be perfect as the first big off the bench.

[YeahYeahYeah]

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We just dumped Bibby for expirings...why would we move 'essentially' an expiring contract for a guy with 4 years left on his deal without moving an unwanted contract. Mikki's solid would be perfect as the first big off the bench.

Come on, Smills, this is absolutely ridiculous. Ford for Artest is extremely good value, let alone clearing Moore's room for cap room this offseason. Ford is 24 -- he's the type of player Petrie would be clearing cap room to GET, let alone acquire in a straight up trade for Artest while also clearing cap room.

This would be a complete and utter steal for the Kings, so good in fact that it would never happen.

[RIPskaterdude]

Kings say yes.

But we would need to trade one of our PG's from the Atlanta deal first. If we could trade AJ/Lue for TPE/2nd then I would say yes.

[Smills91]

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Come on, Smills, this is absolutely ridiculous. Ford for Artest is extremely good value, let alone clearing Moore's room for cap room this offseason. Ford is 24 -- he's the type of player Petrie would be clearing cap room to GET, let alone acquire in a straight up trade for Artest while also clearing cap room.

This would be a complete and utter steal for the Kings, so good in fact that it would never happen.

So if we can bring in artest's 'bagage' to lower his trade value, then we have to bring in Ford's 'injury baggage' to lower his trade value then too.
Don't pull a double standard here. If you expunge the baggage of each player, Artest >> Ford on the court.

[fdefore]

pacers say no b/c they take on a ton of extra $$$ -- trading JO would be pointless. kapono has 3 more years at over $25mil, carter has 3 more for nearly $50mil guarenteed, moore has one more at $5+mil. JO has 2 more years left at around $45 mil.

no thanks.

EDIT: scoot is right, kapono is at $19mil not $25 as stated above. i was looking @ Ford's deal instead. regardless pacers walk away from this immediately.

[ecuhus1981]

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So if we can bring in artest's 'bagage' to lower his trade value, then we have to bring in Ford's 'injury baggage' to lower his trade value then too.
Don't pull a double standard here. If you expunge the baggage of each player, Artest >> Ford on the court.

Exactly right, Smills. And I don't agree with you often...

TJ doesn't have franchise PG value, considering his incurable, uninsurable back issues. If TOR wants to make room for Calderon, they'd be better of doing it after the playoffs, provided Ford has a good post-season. I'd rather roll the dice on Ron than TJ; and even though Ron is an ancient 28 compared to Ford's 24 ( ), I'd still take Ron EASILY over TJ, talent for talent.

Overall, I think the trade is good, but not solid enough for all parties to agree. SAR should go to IND, not Moore (and certainly not KT).

[Scoot McGroot]

Indy would have to walk away right away from this deal.


It's been widely publicized that Indy is looking to shorten salary a bit (not at firesale prices), not add it. This deal adds a TON of future salary commitments with Vince on his new deal, Kapono on his 3 yr/$19 million salary and then Mikki Moore as well.

We add a ton of future salary for either redundant pieces or guys who won't get to play. Kapono won't get time ahead of Dunleavy or Granger and will only compete with Shawne Williams for backup SF minutes (which he'd ultimately lose with Shawne stepping up more day by day).

[True Warrior Zo]

ignoring artest's personality, raps would be a lot happier if they got a back up pg (lue?) back in the deal so soften the blow of losing ford. we would probabl be willing to dish out a pick if thats the case

[RIPskaterdude]

ignoring artest's personality, raps would be a lot happier if they got a back up pg (lue?) back in the deal so soften the blow of losing ford. we would probabl be willing to dish out a pick if thats the case

Done.

[Wizop]

doesn't help Pacers. we're already balking at Carter because we don't need wing players and Kapono just makes that worse. Indy could probably use Ford though if healthy.

[legacyinthemakin89c]

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We just dumped Bibby for expirings...why would we move 'essentially' an expiring contract for a guy with 4 years left on his deal without moving an unwanted contract. Mikki's solid would be perfect as the first big off the bench.

You just said it yourself, Ron Artest is an expiring contract. That is the biggest knock against him. He is psychotic, but being in the final year of his contract really, really hurts his value on the trade market.

He is essentially a half year rental player, and you not going to be able to tack on Thomas' contract with a rental player. You guys are stuck with that terrible contract, and no team in the league is going to take it off your hands until its an expiring.

[Smills91]

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You just said it yourself, Ron Artest is an expiring contract. That is the biggest knock against him. He is psychotic, but being in the final year of his contract really, really hurts his value on the trade market.

He is essentially a half year rental player, and you not going to be able to tack on Thomas' contract with a rental player. You guys are stuck with that terrible contract, and no team in the league is going to take it off your hands until its an expiring.

Well then why trade him now if that's such an issue - of him being a free agent? We can sign and trade him this summer and that essentially gives the team he's traded to the assurance of him staying. The fact is there is no market for Artest in free agency THIS summer. He's either staying Sacto or being dealt(whether that's now or SnT). These 'rental' labels are just inaccurate, if you deal for him now you get the benefit of a trial run before locking him up, a run to make a push in the playoffs AND the ability to re-sign him on your terms...or you can wait for the Summer to get the 'precious' assurance. It's give or take either way.

[legacyinthemakin89c]

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Well then why trade him now if that's such an issue - of him being a free agent? We can sign and trade him this summer and that essentially gives the team he's traded to the assurance of him staying. The fact is there is no market for Artest in free agency THIS summer. He's either staying Sacto or being dealt(whether that's now or SnT). These 'rental' labels are just inaccurate, if you deal for him now you get the benefit of a trial run before locking him up, a run to make a push in the playoffs AND the ability to re-sign him on your terms...or you can wait for the Summer to get the 'precious' assurance. It's give or take either way.

How are they inaccurate? Your just trying to make yourself sound better. Everyone's talking about trades now, for the playoff push, not for the summer. You say by trading for him now the team gets a trial run before they resign him in the summer, wheres the guarantee he'll resign? There isn't one and that fact by itself means you aren't getting decent young talent for him and your not going to be able to get rid of your terrible contracts with him. There isn't a guarentee he's going to resign, so why would a team like Toronto give up a good, young point guard in Ford for what could possibly turn into nothing come this time next year?

[Smills91]

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How are they inaccurate? Your just trying to make yourself sound better. Everyone's talking about trades now, for the playoff push, not for the summer. You say by trading for him now the team gets a trial run before they resign him in the summer, wheres the guarantee he'll resign? There isn't one and that fact by itself means you aren't getting decent young talent for him and your not going to be able to get rid of your terrible contracts with him. There isn't a guarentee he's going to resign, so why would a team like Toronto give up a good, young point guard in Ford for what could possibly turn into nothing come this time next year?

You're saying we can't get fair value for him because he's a FA, well then why would the Kings trade him then? Especially if we can re-sign him or SnT him this summer and he's therefore no longer a "rental". That's my point. You either go after him for the playoff push or you don't and if you do then you assume that risk(which is infinitely MINIMAL) that he leaves. It's either or, there's none of this in between crap.

[hermes]

pacers decline

[legacyinthemakin89c]

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You're saying we can't get fair value for him because he's a FA, well then why would the Kings trade him then? Especially if we can re-sign him or SnT him this summer and he's therefore no longer a "rental". That's my point. You either go after him for the playoff push or you don't and if you do then you assume that risk(which is infinitely MINIMAL) that he leaves. It's either or, there's none of this in between crap.

Thats what I've been saying every time I've argued with you. If T.J Ford isn't a good enough return for you, then you won't be trading Artest this deadline. No team in its reasonable mind would trade potential talent for a one year rental with only a chance of resigning, its that simple. And if he is traded, you'll probably be upset over the value you get back and the fact that Kenny Thomas will still be on your roster. But if all your wishes are met, then I will happily admit that the Kings committed a Lakers (robbing a team).