RealGM

Trade ID #4539223

(Draft picks are in parentheses)

***Edited to redirect NYK's pick to HOU, with HOU's pick going to NJN***

Houston Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Trenton Hassell, Sean Williams, Stephon Marbury, Renaldo Balkman, '08 1st from NYK (top 5 protected)
Outgoing Players: Tracy McGrady, Ming Yao, Shane Battier, Rafer Alston, Steve Francis, '08 1st to NJN
HOU starts from scratch with a younger core, more familiar core.
Ford, Head, Hassell, Bosh, Nesterovic
Brooks, (Weaver), Balkman, Williams, (Jordan)



Toronto Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Ming Yao, Shane Battier, Steve Francis, Nate Robinson
Outgoing Players: Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Anthony Parker
TOR makes Bargnani their franchise PF, and spreads its depth to become a force in the East.
Calderon, Kapono, Battier, Bargnani, Ming
Robinson, Delfino, Moon, Garbajosa, (Hardin)



New Jersey Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Anthony Parker, Malik Rose, David Lee, '08 1st from HOU
Outgoing Players: Vince Carter, Trenton Hassell, Sean Williams
NJ loses a gem in Sean, but adds a better fit at PF in Lee, and a possible difference-maker in the draft.
Harris, Parker, Jefferson, Lee, Krstic
Williams, (Smith), (Batum), Boone, Diop



New York Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Tracy McGrady, Rafer Alston, Vince Carter
Outgoing Players: Stephon Marbury, Malik Rose, Renaldo Balkman, Nate Robinson, David Lee, '08 1st to HOU (top 5 protected)
NYK goes all out and competes for a championship.
Crawford, Carter, McGrady, Randolph, Curry
Alston, Richardson, Chandler, Jeffries, Morris

Rockets trade 4/5 of their starting line-up for Bosh, Ford and back-ups.....

All the while, getting back a Cancer (Marbury), and an even bigger injury risk (Ford) that the guys they already have....

Just look at that starting line-up:

Ford-Head-Hassell-Bosh-Rasho??? Bleh. We become a MUCH WORSE version of the Raptors...

Good Lord Ec, just stop doing Rockets trades. You severly underrate every player on the team and it makes me sick to my stomach to read the drivel that you routinely type on this board about them...

kind of unrealistic ecu, didnt know u took over for me with all these yao trades

toronto would actually think long and hard over this, Yao is now deemed as injury prone as TJ in a way, whats more scary is that he seems to get hurt around the worst time possible

i remember mentioning a while ago that TMac should first be moved if the Rockets still cant do anything siginificant in the playoffs, if Yao demands a trade request, he should demand to be dealt to the east, as most teams in the east will get high lotto picks and good prospects for years to come

So, Toronto gives this a hard look. I think even though they lose Williams, NJ would have to consider this deal a positive for bringing in Lee and a 1st while clearing financial space. I'm not sure how NYK will respond, but I am interested to know.

97, I don't think the deal is nearly as bad for HOU as you think. Yes, it would yank them right out of contending mode and into a regrouping period, but they are well compensated for this redirection. If Yao+T-Mac had been to a couple of WC Finals in a row, that'd be one thing, but we're talking about a core that has managed to dodge the 2nd round 4 years in a row, and is getting older and more injury-prone. Not old, but getting there. I don't think it is out of the question to consider reassembling.

If we parse the HOU section of the trade into two sections, I think we can get an accurate read on the value. First, the Ming/Battier for Bosh/Ford is fairly balanced, with injury concerns of Ming and Ford effectively canceling each other out, and size being traded for age.

The rest of the deal is:

McGrady, Alston and Francis for Marbury, Nesterovic, Hassell, Sean Williams and Renaldo Balkman

I know T-Mac is a former All-Star, but Sean and Renaldo are pretty fair return value for him, considering his own well-documented injury history. The rest of the deal (Marbury, Nesterovic) is basically a free pass to '09 capspace, where many big-name free agents will be looking for a change of scenery. With Ford and Bosh in the fold, and ALOT of caproom to sign a bigtime FA, Houston positions themselves very nicely for the next 5 years.

I think one thing I would add to the deal is a swap of picks. Since HOU does give up so much, I think they should get the NYK 1st, while NJ would get HOU's pick. NJ and HOU would now realistically land the players I had targeted for each team (Deandre Jordan for HOU, Nicolas Batum for NJ), but moving up in the draft would be one added perk in this deal. I will change the OP to reflect this.

yikes houston passes, its not the end of the world yet

Ecuhus...how can you see that as good for Houston, in any light? I mean defending that trade isn't rational.

^

OK, that is a fair statement. So, hermes, you believe HOU would decline more because they are not ready for a rebuild, rather than that this is a bad value? Being a .600+ team, I can definitely respect that, although I think they are closer to rebuildsville than they believe.

Ec: Think of it like this way. If LeBron goes down for the season tonight. Would the Cavs look to rebuild their franchise by DEALING LEBRON AWAY? Heck No they wouldn't! Also insert Dwight Howard or Dwyane Wade as well. The team is BUILT around Yao. He is the corrnerstone of the franchise. YAO will be the cornerstone of the rebuild, not dealt away in order to rebuild around some lesser star....

ecuhus1981 wrote:Trade ID #4539223

(Draft picks are in parentheses)

***Edited to redirect NYK's pick to HOU, with HOU's pick going to NJN***

Houston Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Trenton Hassell, Sean Williams, Stephon Marbury, Renaldo Balkman, '08 1st from NYK (top 5 protected)
Outgoing Players: Tracy McGrady, Ming Yao, Shane Battier, Rafer Alston, Steve Francis, '08 1st to NJN
HOU starts from scratch with a younger core, more familiar core.
Ford, Head, Hassell, Bosh, Nesterovic
Brooks, (Weaver), Balkman, Williams, (Jordan)

What an awful trade for Houston. I love Chris Bosh game but I wouldnt trade Yao for him and I'm positive I dont stand alone on that subject. The trade just turns extremely terrible after that. I wouldnt trade Battier for Ford, Rasho, Hassell, Williams, Balkman, or Marbury! And to top that off we have to give up McGrady AND a first?!?!? LOL ... Adding the protection on the first from NY is hilarious.

Houston can keep Battier and send over Sean Williams and a filler, Battier wont really be that useful in the East as one would think, Yao and Barngnai needs an athletic PF to play behind him as they lack the explosiveness Sean provides

Toronto's major issue is how Yao manages to recover from all these debacles of injuries, this trade would be more intriguing when TJ and Yao can both prove they can take their respective teams into the playoffs all while staying healthy.

Houston definitely does not do it, and I doubt that Toronto would, either.

Yao's foot problems are a giant red flag...they have derailed the careers of many an oversized center, and the difference in value between Bosh and Yao, while fairly substantial due to Yao's defensive presence, is outweighed by the fact that Yao has missed 25+ games in each of the past three seasons (and the 3.5 year age difference).

I love the guy, but Houston really cannot attempt to trade him at the current time, as there is no way that he would return equal value.

This deal is not as bad as HOU fans are making it out to be if they wanted to re-build. They could have a future of:

Ford/E. Gordon/B. Rush/Bosh/S. Williams

With Brooks/Head/Balkman/Landry/Scola off the bench. That is very good for a re-building team.

OK, I get that it's a no-go from Houston.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I agree that moving Yao is the last thing Houston wants to do, rebuild or not. But this trade piques my curiosity. Is there anything we all can agree on that could change, to make it a more balanced trade? Even if we can all agree that it's a sheer impossiblity (as are most trades on this board), I would be satisfied to know what it would take to even out the scales.

Does New Jersey get too good of a deal here? How about New York?

If the premise of the trade is to move Yao and Tracy because of injury problems...why on earth would we trade for TJ Ford?

In answer to your post, echuhus, switching Calderon and Ford would be a start from our end.

^

Another good point. This trade wasn't meant to move their stars strictly because of injury concerns, as much as it was to reconfigure their strategy by going younger. TJ is only 24, and Bosh is just 23. You add Green, Head, Brooks, Landry, Williams, (Jordan) and (Weaver) to that mix, and you have yourself an imposing young core. THEN, you pick up a major FA with '09 capspace, and the Rockets have become a dominant team, IMO.

I don't really want to lose Sean Williams yet, even if we do get cap space back.

Thats absoutley horrible for Houston.

netsforever wrote:I don't really want to lose Sean Williams yet, even if we do get cap space back.

Finally, we're getting some response from the other teams in this trade.

Well, I have to agree that losing out on Sean's upside hurts, but I feel that a Lee-Boone-Krstic bigman rotation is more functional long-term than a Williams-Boone-Krstic one.

Looking at the totality of the Nets section, assuming we want to move Carter, this deal would offer a good value return.

Does anyone from the NYK fanbase have a reaction to this proposal?