Boston vs. Atlanta - Series tied (2-2)

[b-ball forever]

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Which has nothing to do with the Hawks raping the Suns on that trade.

Great choice with the Marvin over Paul selection, never heard that before.

It comes up frequently for a good reason, duh.

And since keep on wanting to go there... U guys were the ones who got ur butts abused in that trade, u cuda picked up JJ for free and kept those first rounders.
We got a guy who saved our 2006 season and won MIP, as well as 2 very nice picks for jacksquat, hows that for rapage?
Again wake me up when JJ leads u into the ECF as the go-to guy.

[jourdy]

Why the hell are people arguing about the Suns and the Hawks in a Boston-Hawks series? For a while there I thought I went in a wrong thread.

[b-ball forever]

Yeah, lets get back on track... Celts sweeping the Hawks

Celts will prolly get all the garbage time they need to rest their starters and head fresh as into the 2nd round.
At least J-Smoove vs KG will make the series a fun watch.
This is where we'll see exactly how good Rondo is, see if he's the type that step's it up in the playoffs and all...

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

There is a real question whether Atlanta needed to include picks to get Joe Johnson from Phoenix, but that is just a question as to how sweet the deal is for Atlanta. Even with the picks, Atlanta lost a player who had one good year and then went back to being a passive waste space with a huge contract; lost a pick they could have used in 2006 (although when we take Shelden at #5 you have to question if we get the right person at #23); and lost the 15th pick in this draft. In exchange for that we have a 26 year old two-time all-star who is clearly a foundational player for a team that had almost nothing when he joined. The trade is a clear positive for Atlanta and the question of whether it could have been an even bigger positive isn't really worth debating 3 years later. Atlanta didn't give up Al Horford for the pick so what was lost just doesn't compare to having JJ.

The trade was fine for the Suns as well and actually looks better than it is for the Hawks because the Suns were in an insane GM mode where they gave away Luol Deng and Rajon Rondo for cash while signing Diaw and Banks to overly pricey contracts. I don't think second guessing the Suns on this amounts to much either because they have been a fantastic franchise that still had 3 HUGE building blocks after getting rid of JJ in Nash, Amare and Marion. If they truly would not have resigned JJ, getting Diaw and 2 protected first round picks is a nice addition to the team.

On the actual subject of the thread, Boston is too elite a defensive team to let Atlanta do much in this series, IMO. The team is committed to D, has offensive talent, and is committed to the success of the team. Their only challenge coming out of the East is going to come from Detroit -- not Atlanta. I hope the Hawks can steal a game or two but that is a longshot in and of itself. It is more likely that the Hawks get beat solidly/big for a few games and play the Celtics closely for a few games (like they played the Celtics starters last game) and then lose those closer games in the end by virtue of better clutch play from the Celtics down the stretch.

[celticfan42487]

I disagree with your assestment on what it lost and cost the Suns. The suns weren't going to re-sign Joe, so therefore they should got nothing. Wether they re-signed Diaw or traded away two firsts or used the 6 million dollar excpetion is not material.

I hear the ends justify the means argument a lot of the Boston boards for Ainge and it's as much bull for forgiving someone's moves as it is for codemening them.

In the end ATL gave away two firsts and a player when they should of not given away those assets.

[Relentless88]

Sweep, sorry ATL fans, this ain't going to be pretty.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

I disagree with your assestment on what it lost and cost the Suns. The suns weren't going to re-sign Joe, so therefore they should got nothing. Wether they re-signed Diaw or traded away two firsts or used the 6 million dollar excpetion is not material.

I hear the ends justify the means argument a lot of the Boston boards for Ainge and it's as much bull for forgiving someone's moves as it is for codemening them.

In the end ATL gave away two firsts and a player when they should of not given away those assets.

I said the trade was good for the Suns and you disagree. Mmmkay. You can second guess what the Suns did with the assets they acquired (too much for Diaw? Gave away Rondo? Who knows with this pick.) but that is splitting hairs because the bottomline is they got valuable assets for JJ - likely more valuable than they would have gotten from anyone else in a S&T. Good for them.

Re Atlanta, what the Hawks gave up was clearly less valuable than what they got. The question comes down to whether the Suns would have kept JJ or matched and subsequently dealt him if the Hawks refused to kick in one or both of the picks. (Losing Diaw was a positive given his play in Atlanta so that is not a real loss). As Raptor's GM, Jerry Colangelo said the Suns would have matched had Atlanta not kicked in the picks. Also, remember, that Amare was still on his rookie contract at the time so the Suns could have kept JJ shortterm and then dumped him for cap relief/picks if they chose to do so without incurring the luxury tax for more than a season. Even if it is likely that the Suns would not match, however, is that a risk worth taking?

If the Suns matched, Atlanta loses the only multiple All-Star it has had over the last decade and certainly the only big-time free agent it could have gotten who was young enough to grow with this core. JJ is 26 years old which is not the case for a lot of big FA acquisitions 3 years into their FA contract. So it was worth it to give up something in my mind to get certainty that you acquire JJ.

I have always contended that we gave up more than we had to but I think that Diaw and a first round pick (more protected if Atlanta's own) would have been fine. The real risk with the deal Atlanta made was if they didn't get a top 3 pick in 2007 (they did) or if they failed to make they playoffs in 2008 (they didn't). You can very credibly argue that it was too much, but the most the Hawks are really losing in this deal is a mid-round first and that isn't that huge a deal for this team (they don't need more youngsters given that they are the youngest team in the league as it is and will be bringing over David Anderson next season). The bottomline result is clearly positive for Atlanta and if they overpaid they didn't give up so much that it is worth fussing about 3 years down the line, IMO.

[TonyMontana]

Wait isn't this the Celtics / Hawks thread ?

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And yet at the end of the day the Suns are still championship contenders

Contenders .... You guys have been contenders for the past 40 years since you came in the league ........

Good luck with the Spurs .
Suns fans always , bitching and trying to convince everyone that they are contenders when year after year they fail to make it past the 1st or 2nd round .
Then they blame everybody from Stern to the reffs to the stock market crashing to Robert Horry ...........

Anyhow back to the thread .

Celtics in 5 .

[meatball sub]

Shaq won't be able to fix Tony Parker destroying Steve Nash for the fourth year in a row.

[enigmatics]

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Which has nothing to do with the Hawks raping the Suns on that trade.

Great choice with the Marvin over Paul selection, never heard that before.

Wow....a whole 37 wins and yet another losing season to show for that "raping"

[arrpy]

LMAO at the poll... 'Atlanta in 8'

[NDaATL]

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Wow....a whole 37 wins and yet another losing season to show for that "raping"

JJ isn't responsible for Billy Knights ridiculous draft day decisions. Otherwise we would be a legit team by now.

But I'm sick of arguing about PHX, please let's get back on topic.

[TonyMontana]

Shaq won't be able to fix Tony Parker destroying Steve Nash for the fourth year in a row.

Oh they'll have an excuse for that one as well .........

They'll probably blame that one on the price of gas going up , or global warming , or the war in Iraq .....

[ponder276]

Boston in 4. MAYBE Boston in 5, but I highly doubt it.

[Myth_Breaker]

Celtics in 4.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Celts in 4

[niffoc4]

Going with Celtics in five. Atlanta is MUCH better at home, so should be able to win one game there. The games in Boston will be UGLY.

On the Hawks-Suns deal, the Hawks needed a star/semi-star, and JJ was the ONLY person who wanted to come to the Hawks. Did they overpay? Yeah. Was it horrible? No. Diaw never would have been the same player for the hawks that he is for the Suns, and BK isn't exactly a genius in the drafting department.

Also, the Hawks certainly aren't contenders with JJ, but he has REALLY helped this team, and they wouldn't have even won 30 games w/o him(unless that would have meant drafting Roy last year instead of Shelden DOH!).

[MindAtEase]

Even though it's a mismatch....go Hawks.

[Mad Mike]

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And yet at the end of the day the Suns are still championship contenders and are still a hell lot better then ur team, and Doris still had a far more successful playoff run then JJ ever did.

Nitpicking at the Suns management's moves comes across as flat out (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when u look at all the brilliant moves and success the Hawks have had doesn't it?
As for draft moves u guys passed up on CP3 and D.Williams for Marvin Williams, fuggin AY!
So before u think bout hating on a team of the Suns caliber just take a good long look in mirror. "Mad Mike", correct choice of username for the according team

come again? im not even a hawks fan im a pistons fan...you know the team that whoops up on the suns everytime, so no suns are not better than my team. i just called you out because of stupid statements you were making about doris somehow being better than jj. What championship contenders? get to the finals at least once than talk. Get out of the western conference and stop making excuses every year. Lets get back to the suns management that you say has been so great. What was so great about giving up all those great picks? Doris had 1 playoff run and he is great now? dude is a fat scrub who had 1 good year and got paid for it.

[b-ball forever]

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come again? im not even a hawks fan im a pistons fan...you know the team that whoops up on the suns everytime, so no suns are not better than my team. i just called you out because of stupid statements you were making about doris somehow being better than jj. What championship contenders? get to the finals at least once than talk. Get out of the western conference and stop making excuses every year. Lets get back to the suns management that you say has been so great. What was so great about giving up all those great picks? Doris had 1 playoff run and he is great now? dude is a fat scrub who had 1 good year and got paid for it.

OoOoO Pistons fan Huh? That explains why u never have any clue what the hell ur talkin about then.

First off, your reading comprehension sucks cuz I never said that Doris > JJ, bozo! I said that he had a far more successful playoff run then JJ ever did.
JJ being a better playa then Doris has jacksquat to do with the trade being good for the Suns or not since JJ was gonna be a gonner no matter what. Gettin a guy that saves ur 2005-2006 season and 2 draft picks for nada is a great trade no matter what, anybody with half a brain knows that.

LMAO, No NBA finals? No gettin outta the West?
Been there done that...
So not only does ur reading comprehension suck, so does ur knowledge of the NBA in general.

Suns management also signed up friggin Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill and Barbosa to some of the best contracts in the NBA, on top of getting a steal @ 9th pick in Amare, so yeah they aren't total morons either.

Oh yeah, and the Suns DO NOT get knocked out by scrub teams like the Cavs, so try again