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Code Redd: Non draft pick inclusive Redd trade idea thread

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Code Redd: Non draft pick inclusive Redd trade idea thread 

Post#1 » by Licensed to Il » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:02 am

I know bringing up this topic yet again is dangerously close to beating a dead horse (something Daniel Santiago could not do in a foot race; i.e. beat a dead horse) but I don't feel that trading Redd has ever been even a remote possibility until now. But now that Hammond is in charge with full authority, and since he undoubtebly wants to free up cap space as soon as possible, here are a few realistic trade scenarios that I came up with that would either A) shed cap space in a hurry or B) improve the overall cap situation while adding at least one guy to our rotation (top eight players).

All work under the trade checker (although some appear to not work, as they couldn't be announced till after July when a few BYC issues expire.

And the real key here, the thing that I feel distinguishes this from other off season proposal threads, is that the other team in question would at least think about these deals... not laugh them off in ten seconds (like Baron Davis for Redd for example).

I deducted that there are six teams that would at least in theory, be interested in adding Redd (of course with Dallas and Orlando it all hinges on their playoff performance, or lack thereof)... In no particular order..

- Redd to the Cavs for Anderson Vareajo and Wally Szerbiak. Szerbiak wouldn't bring anything to our roster, but his deal expires (I believe) next offseason. Vareajo is little more than what we thought we were getting with Gadzuric. But he could emerge as a strong copliment to Yi at the power forward position. I believe strongly that the Cavs will lose in the first round or two, putting pressure on Ferry to make a knee jerk reaction to appease LeBron. Cap relief (in Wally) and Vareajo is THE ONLY combination off of the Cavs roster I would even consider. And I would probably need a draft pick thrown in too.

- Redd to Houston for Battier, Bobby Jackson, and Luther Head. Not a barn burner here, but Houston is almost predestined (apologies to John Calvin) to lose in the first round, and aquiring another star scorer (Redd) would give Adleman the kind of roster he likes. Battier would be a bench/heady sub type for us. Head could contribute for a while. I don't see Jackson as much more than cap relief.

- Redd to Indy for Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels. Murphy's deal runs the same duration as Redd, but for 4-5 million a year less. Daniels expires (according to ESPN trade checker) two years earlier. In a sense, this trades an overpaid shooting guard for an overpaid reserve forward. But sticking with the theme here.. it is a move that gives Hammond a solid rotation guy and flexibility sooner than later.

- Redd to Orlando for Turkaglo, Battie, and Cook. If the Magic flame out in the first round, they are going to need to make two big changes. The first is to teach Dwight how to shoot free throws and the second is to add a guy that can consistently make opponents pay for clogging the paint. I could see Redd at his best as a gunner who was a second option to a big time force in the post. Turkaglo obviously is playing great these days, and Battie and Cook would provide some cap savings (compared to Redd) as well.

- Redd and Charlie V to Dallas for Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse. This one depends on another first round elimination for the Mavs. But Kidd has another huge year on his deal, and Cuban can't get equal value for Dirk. So I don't see any options for him other than reverting to his old ways and adding another big time scorer to the roster. Again.. if Josh Howard has a great playoff run Dallas would laugh at this deal. But if the team struggles, and Josh Howard fails to make timely clutch shots, I think that this is a realistic deal that would improve both rosters. Howard would give us toughness and defense. And Redd would give the Mavs another weapon. I think a squad built around Kidd, Redd, and Dirk with Terry off the bench would be very good. Very expensive... but good. This is the one I am hoping for, as long a shot as it may be. GO HORNETS.



Do you guys think that there are any other teams that could be interested in Redd that I am overlooking? (this thread in no way insinuates that I think the Bucks should keep Mo, I wil get around to a Mo trade thread later)...
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Post#2 » by Wise1 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:09 am

Redd to the Hornets would seem to help them out. I'd love to take Julian Wright off of their hands somehow.
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Post#3 » by raferfenix » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:09 am

I think we're going to end up making a deal with cleveland, but I really hope we can get them to take Gadzuric off our hands too. Varajao would be a great fit here, as he could both pressure Bogut to play all out as well as play alongside Bogut at PF too.


The Dallas deal is ideal, but I have a real hard time seeing it going through. I'm a huge Josh Howard fan though and think he'd be an almost perfect fit here, so I'd probably include our pick in a larger deal if it'd close a deal.


The Pacers deal made me throw up a little in my mouth just thinking about it.
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Post#4 » by midranger » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:19 am

I can't imagine many teams other than the Cavs that would offer much of anything for Redd. That said, I'd hope for more than poop like Murphy and Daniels.

Hammond will surely try to move Redd this summer. I just hope he finds some sucker to take him.
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Post#5 » by Licensed to Il » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:19 am

raferfenix wrote:The Pacers deal made me throw up a little in my mouth just thinking about it.


I think Redd has more trade value than most think, and if he is eventually traded that you can rest assured it will not be a "throw up in your mouth" trade.

I like what B Simmons wrote about Dalembert and Dunleavy officially playing themselves off of the "overpaid" label. I have a feeling that in order to move a guy like Redd we are going ot have to take on a guy deemed by many to be overpaid, and hope that we can put him in an environment where he can play his way out of that label.

Ironically enough, the one guy in the league I could most easily see doing that next year is Redd. If we surround him with four smart, offensively versatile, hard nosed defenders... and reduce the tempo and improve our defensive fg% I could see him playing a Rip Hamilton/Reggie Miller role. Keep in mind, even a tough defensive team needs a guy you can go to for surefire baskets. Redd could be that guy. I think you just need to protect him defensively. Heck... Reggie M and Rip never played D (though Facemask Hamilton has improved every year and I now consider him a better than average defender).
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Post#6 » by drew881 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:19 am

I've been proposing similar Indiana deals, but I think the one you included should be amended to either 1) get rid of Gadz or 2) give us a draft pick. I think Redd > murphy plus daniels. Of course he is the best player in the deal, so I think a First would be needed.

The Houston deal would have to be coupled by trading Mo. Bobby Jackson is too similar to Mo (albeit older and not nearly as good), but that would give us a backcourt of sessions, mo, jackson and bell (who plays sg??)

I would rather deal Redd and CV to houston for Battier, Landry and filler, but I don't think they would do it.
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Post#7 » by Licensed to Il » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:26 am

drew881 wrote:I've been proposing similar Indiana deals, but I think the one you included should be amended to either 1) get rid of Gadz or 2) give us a draft pick. I think Redd > murphy plus daniels. Of course he is the best player in the deal, so I think a First would be needed.

The Houston deal would have to be coupled by trading Mo. Bobby Jackson is too similar to Mo (albeit older and not nearly as good), but that would give us a backcourt of sessions, mo, jackson and bell (who plays sg??)

I would rather deal Redd and CV to houston for Battier, Landry and filler, but I don't think they would do it.


just for the record.. these deals don't imply that we wouldn't do anything else. i perceive that it is 95% likely the Bucks will trade Mo, and maybe 40/60 that the Bucks will trade Redd. this thread was just exploring a few quasi-realistic trade options for redd. even if one of these went through, there would obviously be a lot of other work remaining roster-wise for hammond.

and, the indy deal, as i stated, would be for cap purposes. I don't really think that murphy or daniels would make us better. but sometimes a shrewd GM makes a deal like that because Daniels salary expires twice as fast, and a deal/player like Murphy becomes attractive trade bait in the last year (a big man who can rebound and shoot for a playoff run and then comes off the cap). all that to say, i think cleaning up our backcourt mess is going to take 2 or 3 deals (meaning you eventually trade the guys you traded for to get the players you ultimately want). it is unrealistic to think hammond is going to land our backcourt of the future in one redd trade and one mo trade.
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Post#8 » by Max Green » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:41 am

To bad Redd is not being traded.
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Post#9 » by El Duderino » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:00 am

Can't see any reason why Orlando trades Turkoglu for Redd? He put up about 20/6/5 and makes only 7 million dollars while Redd is due 16/17/18 million.

Redd/CV for Howard i'd jump all over and i think Dallas hangs up the phone is a few seconds. Howard is the better player and only makes 10 million per the next three years.
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Post#10 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:21 am

Redd/Simmons/Gadzuric/Villanueva

for

Szczerbiak/Snow/Smith/Jones


Clears trade checker, and if Cleveland can afford it, they easily win talent-wise. Cleans up our mess nicely in one painless move.
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Post#11 » by El Duderino » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:15 am

adamcz wrote:Redd/Simmons/Gadzuric/Villanueva

for

Szczerbiak/Snow/Smith/Jones


Clears trade checker, and if Cleveland can afford it, they easily win talent-wise. Cleans up our mess nicely in one painless move.


I don't expect a move in that fashion going down, but i am curious if Hammond has a general idea of what he wants to do.

Would he more prefer to just shed contracts and accumulate cap space along with draft picks?

Would he prefer to trade vets for vets that might fit better?
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Post#12 » by MajorDad » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:47 am

the sad part about all of your trade proposals is that I don't see the bucks getting the better end of any of those deals. Sure, i'd welcome a redd trade, but I doubt kohl would trade his only key name player for a bunch of role players and expiring contracts.

With Bogut, CV and Yi, why would the Bucks want Vareajo in the first place? trading our starting guard and top scorer for somebody who will come off the benc h and be our 8th man for the next 4 years doesn't make any logical sense. Vareajo is not going to start over bogut, Charlie or YI. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent. it's just not the talent the bucks want or need.

I hate to say it, but for kohl to approve any trade involving redd, the Bucks are going to have to get a name player in return. So you can stop going to that famous real gm trade checker to see if your ideas work. if redd goes to GS, yes, it would be for baron Davis not a couple of second year guys. . if redd goes to Indiana, it would be for J O'N.neil , not a couple of losers like murphy.

I'm sorry that the the bucks don't use the real gm trade checker when they make trades. Does an y team? other tha n to get the final pieces to fit? the ke y parts of any trade do not go through a GM's mind t o see if it fits the rea l gm trade machine. I doubt the lakers used the real gm trader before trading for gashol. i think it's time bucks fans realized this before making further proposals. In a small market town with a smal l arena, the Bucks have to have at least one player with name recognition to sell tickets. Nobody is going to come to watch Vareajo and Wally play. the whole idea of drafting Yi was more for his name recognition than his talent. if he ever develops , that will be icing on the cake.

I'm sorry Vareajo, but the bucks would trade redd for a washed up ben Wallace because of his name value before they would trade redd for a back-up role player. and i know the bucks would not trade for Wallace.

Face it, redd is here to stay. rather tha n continiuing to try to trade redd, it would be smarter to acquire role players that would complement redd's positive contributions. What the bucks really need is a point guard and small forward who can play defense, distribute the ball and control the tempo of the game. this would allow redd to do what he does best - catch and shoot like reggie Miller did for so many years. the Bucks don't need to trade redd, what they need to do is acquire Artest.
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Post#13 » by EastSideBucksFan » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:51 am

MajorDad wrote:the sad part about all of your trade proposals is that I don't see the bucks getting the better end of any of those deals. Sure, i'd welcome a redd trade, but I doubt kohl would trade his only key name player for a bunch of role players and expiring contracts.

With Bogut, CV and Yi, why would the Bucks want Vareajo in the first place? trading our starting guard and top scorer for somebody who will come off the benc h and be our 8th man for the next 4 years doesn't make any logical sense. Vareajo is not going to start over bogut, Charlie or YI. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent. it's just not the talent the bucks want or need.

I hate to say it, but for kohl to approve any trade involving redd, the Bucks are going to have to get a name player in return. So you can stop going to that famous real gm trade checker to see if your ideas work. if redd goes to GS, yes, it would be for baron Davis not a couple of second year guys. . if redd goes to Indiana, it would be for J O'N.neil , not a couple of losers like murphy.

I'm sorry that the the bucks don't use the real gm trade checker when they make trades. Does an y team? other tha n to get the final pieces to fit? the ke y parts of any trade do not go through a GM's mind t o see if it fits the rea l gm trade machine. I doubt the lakers used the real gm trader before trading for gashol. i think it's time bucks fans realized this before making further proposals. In a small market town with a smal l arena, the Bucks have to have at least one player with name recognition to sell tickets. Nobody is going to come to watch Vareajo and Wally play. the whole idea of drafting Yi was more for his name recognition than his talent. if he ever develops , that will be icing on the cake.

I'm sorry Vareajo, but the bucks would trade redd for a washed up ben Wallace because of his name value before they would trade redd for a back-up role player. and i know the bucks would not trade for Wallace.

Face it, redd is here to stay. rather tha n continiuing to try to trade redd, it would be smarter to acquire role players that would complement redd's positive contributions. What the bucks really need is a point guard and small forward who can play defense, distribute the ball and control the tempo of the game. this would allow redd to do what he does best - catch and shoot like reggie Miller did for so many years. the Bucks don't need to trade redd, what they need to do is acquire Artest.



Well said. I don't think Redd is really going anywhere unless Hammond is blown away with an offer and with Redd at $16M, no one is going to blow him away. So, he's going to try and surround Redd the best he can with a new PG and new SF, both of which who can defend
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Post#14 » by El Duderino » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:21 am

In a small market town with a smal l arena, the Bucks have to have at least one player with name recognition to sell tickets. Nobody is going to come to watch Vareajo and Wally play.


Nobody comes to see Redd play either, all the empty seats this year was evidence of that.

Fans will come back to the Bradley Center when the Bucks put a better product on the floor and win games. The only type of players that can draw fans simply by themselves are the elite superstars, Redd is nowhere near that class, nor will he bring one in return.

I have no idea if the Bucks will trade Redd and if they do, for whom, but name recognition should be the last priority. Building a winner is what eventually will bring back large crowds, not trading for names that won't draw fans anyways if the Bucks just mainly lose games.
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Post#15 » by crkone » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:33 am

El Duderino wrote:
In a small market town with a smal l arena, the Bucks have to have at least one player with name recognition to sell tickets. Nobody is going to come to watch Vareajo and Wally play.


Nobody comes to see Redd play either, all the empty seats this year was evidence of that.

Fans will come back to the Bradley Center when the Bucks put a better product on the floor and win games. The only type of players that can draw fans simply by themselves are the elite superstars, Redd is nowhere near that class, nor will he bring one in return.

I have no idea if the Bucks will trade Redd and if they do, for whom, but name recognition should be the last priority. Building a winner is what eventually will bring back large crowds, not trading for names that won't draw fans anyways if the Bucks just mainly lose games.


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Post#16 » by jeremyd236 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:39 am

I don't think Redd is going to be traded, but if he is I hope that we get a player in return who plays very different from him. I hope we get a defensive monster in return. The reason for this is obvious, because the rest of the team is soft and plays no defense.

But also, I don't want a Redd-type player brought in to be the leading scorer on the team. Because if scoring is what we trade for, then we just traded one of the best scorers in the league.
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Post#17 » by jeremyd236 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:42 am

EastSideBucksFan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Well said. I don't think Redd is really going anywhere unless Hammond is blown away with an offer and with Redd at $16M, no one is going to blow him away. So, he's going to try and surround Redd the best he can with a new PG and new SF, both of which who can defend



This is exactly what I think. Redd's contract isn't going to be easy to move if we want a good deal. He's a great scorer and if you put him in that role, he's one of the best in the league. It was foolish of us to try to get Redd to be a great passer or defender, no matter how much he's making. If we can't move him, we can't sit and cry about it. A good GM (like Hammond), will be creative in complimenting Redd with players who make up for his flaws. He will not surround him with a shooting PG, a fragile SF, and a 3-pt shooting PF. Surrounding Redd with defenders is somewhat of a new concept.
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Post#18 » by Neapolitan Buck » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:00 pm

Wise1 wrote:Redd to the Hornets would seem to help them out. I'd love to take Julian Wright off of their hands somehow.


Yeah but I don't see great depth in the Hornets roster, so I don't think there is any way to trade Mike to NO without getting Peja.
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Post#19 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:24 pm

MajorDad wrote:I hate to say it, but for kohl to approve any trade involving redd, the Bucks are going to have to get a name player in return.
So Hammond was swindled when he thought he would have freedom to make his own trades, including unpopular ones?
El Dude wrote:The only type of players that can draw fans simply by themselves are the elite superstars, Redd is nowhere near that class, nor will he bring one in return.
Correct. Redd doesn't sell any tickets, hence the Bradley Center being empty and the Bucks having to give two tickets a bobblehead, and Mo's ATM number for $5.
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Post#20 » by europa » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:30 pm

El Duderino wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Would he prefer to trade vets for vets that might fit better?


We won't know until it happens but this seems to be what Hammond is prepared to do. Based on his comments thus far, he doesn't seem to be the type of GM who's pursuing cap space. His comments about free agency were very strong in my opinion in terms of understanding the realities of the free-agent system in today's game and specifically how the Bucks currently fit into that system. I didn't get the impression he was longing for cap space at all but rather wanting to make trades which bring in the right type of players.

I've been opposed to trading Redd or Mo to Cleveland because I don't think the Cavs have anything of real value for the two of them (excluding LeBron obviously). I don't like the idea of trading one of the team's few good players for cap space even if both players have bad contracts which is the case with Mo and Redd. I think the Bucks need to get players back who will help improve their team in the long term and based on Hammond's comments that seems to be his idea as well. He's talked about making "unpopular" trades but he's also talked about not bringing back what appears to be equal talent but players who are a better fit. Those comments don't strike me as a GM who wants to trade for expirings.

We'll see what happens but I would be surprised if Hammond made a deal of that nature involving Redd assuming Redd is traded.
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