My rant on Pjuols

Moderator: TyCobb

Icness
NFL Analyst
Posts: 16,964
And1: 129
Joined: Apr 30, 2001
Location: Back in the 616
Contact:
   

My rant on Pjuols 

Post#1 » by Icness » Wed May 23, 2007 8:51 pm

This is about five days late, but I finally have a few minutes to devote to it...

I'm so freaking sick of everyone lapping at the testes of Albert Pujols all the time. You'd think he's Lou Gehrig, Cal Ripken, and Joe Morgan all rolled into one perfect package. The guy cannot ever make a mistake if you listen to ESPN or FSN or read most papers. Well I'm here to tell you that's a flat-out farce.

Last weekend I got to watch almost every inning of the Tigers/Cards series. Albert Pujols' play caused me to raise an eyebrow a few times, but not in a positive light. Among his gaffes:
1. Misread the hit/run sign and got nailed stealing
2. Didn't break to his right on a ball that was his, not the 2B. The runner reached and wound up scoring on a play that an average defensive 1B makes routinely. Heck, Rafael Palmeiro makes that play 97 times out of 100.
3. Down by 2, runners at 1st and 3rd, one out. Works a 2-0 count, major hitting advantage. Instead of swinging for the HR, or hitting behind the runner, or even taking a pitch he wasn't expecting, or lobbing a sac fly, he gets fooled on a changeup and weakly dribbles to the SS on what should have been a DP.
4. Similar situation to the above, except it's man on 2nd and one out, again a 2-0 count. The two guys hitting behind him are hitless for the last week (okay, that's hyperbole but they're certainly struggling), the pitcher is clearly tiring (this is the Sat. game). He decides he's going to take a walk. Looks at two pitches almost dead-straight fastballs, knee-high and slightly inside from the middle of the plate. He didn't even flinch at them, taking all the way. He eventually did walk, but that's not the point.

You don't get to be MVP by being stranded on 1B. You get to be MVP and Fox Poster Boy for all that is Great by driving in the man from 2nd, inspiring your struggling teammates, leading the soldiers to victory. And he was content slowing down all momentum by walking. I might not like Derek Jeter, but I guarantee you he's K-ing trying to drive in that run before he walks to 1B if he's got no protection behind him.

I don't watch a great deal of baseball anymore, so it really disappoints me when I see one of the marquee players lay a complete sucking egg like Pujols did. I lost a lot of respect for him. If he's only doing exactly what Larussa is telling him, then I'll shift the blame to the alcoholic myopian and he should be fired. But when you're struggling like the Cards are, you need your best player to step up and do something dramatic, not get lazy and play it safe. How sad :nonono:
User avatar
High 5
RealGM
Posts: 15,653
And1: 2,179
Joined: Apr 21, 2006

 

Post#2 » by High 5 » Wed May 23, 2007 9:02 pm

So have you seen him for the other ~1000 games of his career?
HCYanks
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,427
And1: 2
Joined: May 24, 2002

 

Post#3 » by HCYanks » Wed May 23, 2007 9:52 pm

It's really unfair the jump on a player for doing certain stuff over one game. The league's best hitters are the ones who perform well over a long term stretch. When you start over-analyzing single games, it leads to inaccurate results. It turns future hall of famers like Alex Rodriguez into scapegoats and mediocre midgets like David Eckstein into glorified paper tigers. Pujols is considered a top hitter in the league for a damn good reason. Even in this "awful" start that he's had thus far, he's putting up offensive numbers that a lot of players would take.

And walking is a vital part of a hitter's production. The league's best hitters go up and try to work the count every time. On occasion, they'll take hittable pitches. In the end, it's still helping greatly to get on base and not create an out.
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#4 » by bigboy1234 » Wed May 23, 2007 10:12 pm

Cardinals @ Detroit Series Summary

Game 1: Cardinals get down 14-0 by the end of the 5th, thats definitely Pujols' fault, I mean he only went 4-4 with a BB and a HR.

Game 2: Cardinals get down 6-0 by the end of the 3rd, bad pitching again. Pujols goes 1-3 with 3 BB and a SO, meanwhile Encarnacion and Rolen both leave 6 runners on base.

Game 3: Cardinals actually have a chance to win this game, but don't in Cardinal fashion. Pujols goes 2-4.

Pujols ends this series going 7-11 with 4 BB while leaving 2 batters on base and 1 strikeout.

Pujols has also gotten pretty unlucky this year, has crushed a ton of balls that have been caught. He has a PrOPS of .923, thats pretty good while struggling. While also sporting a .269 BABIP.

Icness I guess you hate LeBron James too because you know he passes the ball instead of going for it himself late in games. Pujols can't do everything himself he has only one other player on his team who has an OPS over .730 and only 3 players over .630.
studcrackers
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 52,226
And1: 6,100
Joined: Oct 31, 2004
Location: Getting hit in the head
         

 

Post#5 » by studcrackers » Wed May 23, 2007 10:13 pm

HOORAY SAMPLE SIZE!

Come on Icness i expected better out of you then to bash pujols, is this some sort of personal vendetta against him that you're just starting to talk about on here?
Jugs wrote: I saw two buttholes
Ex-hippie
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,213
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 17, 2003

Re: My rant on Pjuols 

Post#6 » by Ex-hippie » Wed May 23, 2007 10:45 pm

Icness wrote:1. Misread the hit/run sign and got nailed stealing


Not his fault that he's stuck on a team managed by Tony LaRussa. What the hell are they doing a hit/run for?

2. Didn't break to his right on a ball that was his, not the 2B. The runner reached and wound up scoring on a play that an average defensive 1B makes routinely. Heck, Rafael Palmeiro makes that play 97 times out of 100.


Except when he's DH'ing... but he'll still win a Gold Glove for it!

Palmeiro makes that play 97 times out of 100, and that's probably the number of opportunities he'll have to make that play over the course of his career. It might be worth an extra one or two wins per season. Not that Palmeiro was any slouch at the plate, but I'm pretty sure Pujols' bat more than makes up for it. You have to take the good with the bad.

3. Down by 2, runners at 1st and 3rd, one out. Works a 2-0 count, major hitting advantage. Instead of swinging for the HR, or hitting behind the runner, or even taking a pitch he wasn't expecting, or lobbing a sac fly, he gets fooled on a changeup and weakly dribbles to the SS on what should have been a DP.


Well, that explains why Pujols never hits home runs or gets RBIs! Thanks for clearing it up... it's his weak swing!

4. Similar situation to the above, except it's man on 2nd and one out, again a 2-0 count. The two guys hitting behind him are hitless for the last week (okay, that's hyperbole but they're certainly struggling), the pitcher is clearly tiring (this is the Sat. game). He decides he's going to take a walk. Looks at two pitches almost dead-straight fastballs, knee-high and slightly inside from the middle of the plate. He didn't even flinch at them, taking all the way. He eventually did walk, but that's not the point.


Actually, that is very much the point. The pitches were out of the strike zone. What do you think he could have done with them? You'd rather he lunge at them, then have the slumping hitters come up with the bases empty and one more out? Sounds to me like Pujols was being pitched around, which might be frustrating to him; but the solution is not to encourage that kind of thing by hacking at pitches out of the zone.
SmallTownJournalist303
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 3,796
And1: 1
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Contact:

 

Post#7 » by SmallTownJournalist303 » Wed May 23, 2007 10:53 pm

Damn that Pjuols!
Why is anyone judging a future hall-of-famer based on one series? It's ludicrous given how spectacular his young career has already been.
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#8 » by bigboy1234 » Wed May 23, 2007 11:04 pm

SmallTownJournalist303 wrote:Why is anyone judging a future hall-of-famer based on one series? It's ludicrous given how spectacular his young career has already been.

And this was Pujols series:
Pujols ends this series going 7-11 with 4 BB while leaving 2 batters on base and 1 strikeout.
SmallTownJournalist303
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 3,796
And1: 1
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Contact:

 

Post#9 » by SmallTownJournalist303 » Thu May 24, 2007 12:13 am

Damn him for not hitting eight home runs! How dare he be called a SUPASTAR.
Icness
NFL Analyst
Posts: 16,964
And1: 129
Joined: Apr 30, 2001
Location: Back in the 616
Contact:
   

 

Post#10 » by Icness » Thu May 24, 2007 3:46 am

All that I am saying is that he's not the Mr. Perfect that so much of the media makes him out to be. He's not free from making mistakes that lesser regarded players get routinely slammed for.

I get that I don't watch him enough to accurately judge him. I'm not saying he's not a great player. I just wonder why so many people are so hung up on how Pujols is the greatest player of this generation and it's unquestioned how awesome he is. Yes he's put up outstanding numbers over the course of his career. But he makes mistakes, he does things that don't help his team, he fails in some capacity as the leader of the defending world champs. Do I blame him for the Cards slow start--heck no. But I want a guy of his caliber to do more than what he's doing for a team that is in desperate need of someone to step up and restore order. That's all. Stop all the induction speeches into the HOF already, let him take a team with little starting pitching and awful slumps around him to greatness before everyone anoints him as the best player since Willie Mays, which is precisely what Joe Morgan called him just last week.
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

 

Post#11 » by FNQ » Thu May 24, 2007 4:10 am

No, Icness is right.... Pujols is deified in the media as just the perfect player... and lesser players get a lot of crap for the same things that Pujols does that get looked over.

Pujols is certainly an amazing hitter and player... but the way Fox portrays him in their broadcasts makes it seem like he can do no wrong... I too heard the comment Morgan made, and I just laughed. He's not an all-time great.... yet.

All that said, I cant imagine Howard stealing another MVP away from him. And he did have a nice batting series against the Tigers...
User avatar
High 5
RealGM
Posts: 15,653
And1: 2,179
Joined: Apr 21, 2006

 

Post#12 » by High 5 » Thu May 24, 2007 4:16 am

Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is the best hitter in baseball. He's struggling right now (by his standards), but he'll pick it up.
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 62,963
And1: 20,008
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: EOL 6/23
   

 

Post#13 » by FNQ » Thu May 24, 2007 4:27 am

High 5 wrote:Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is the best hitter in baseball. He's struggling right now (by his standards), but he'll pick it up.


Of course... I think what Icness is trying to say, but defenitely what I'm trying to say is that he gets a free pass on criticism for minor, yet somewhat important, aspects of the game, while lesser hitters get the wrath for the same mistakes.

More media related controlling... I dont think its that big of a deal, but its a little irritating.
User avatar
bigboy1234
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 7
Joined: May 29, 2006

 

Post#14 » by bigboy1234 » Thu May 24, 2007 4:42 am

Not so sure on the way FOX portrays him, because quite frankly he is the best player in the game right now and is he even on FOX that much? Doesn't Jeter get better press than Pujols does, and I think Pujols may be a better player than Jeter not sure. FOX may also be saying lots of good things about him because he has a very good chance to have very nice career totals, seeing as he has been a great hitter since the age of 20. Oh, and his team did just win the World Series. You tend to get good press when you do those things.
Icness wrote:Stop all the induction speeches into the HOF already, let him take a team with little starting pitching and awful slumps around him to greatness before everyone anoints him as the best player since Willie Mays, which is precisely what Joe Morgan called him just last week.

Well Pujols is practically a shoe-in for the HOF so I don't get that statement. The 2nd sentence ah, apparently you didn't watch the Cardinals last year, I believe they won the WS while going on three 8 game losing streaks throughout the season, and as many put it one of the worst WS teams of all-time. And lastly your blaming Pujols for Joe Morgan being an idiot?
User avatar
sideshowking24
Junior
Posts: 396
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Location: Stillville

 

Post#15 » by sideshowking24 » Thu May 24, 2007 6:21 am

...well if media control is what you are concerned about Icness, that is just something that comes with the territory of professional sports. Pujols is certainly not the first player that has been glorified by the media and he is certainly not going to be the last. and it goes both ways. the media will glorify some players like Pujols and then completely condemn others, like Bonds. It is a little annoying when the mistakes of players that are considered superstars are completely overlooked and then a lesser player makes the same mistakes and gets bashed for it. but IMO, with the media, you earn the kind of treatment you get with your performance on and off of the field. Players like Pujols will get that glorification while others wont. I'm not justifying it but thats just the way it is...

he may not be the "best player since Willie Mays" right now like the media says he is, but he is a great player and I don't think there is much more that he could have done already in his young career to not prove that.
User avatar
FaTaL
Veteran
Posts: 2,902
And1: 11
Joined: Sep 17, 2003
     

 

Post#16 » by FaTaL » Thu May 24, 2007 7:22 am

he needs to start hitting before people start accusing him of using roids
Image
34Celtic
Analyst
Posts: 3,406
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 02, 2007

Re: My rant on Pjuols 

Post#17 » by 34Celtic » Thu May 24, 2007 1:07 pm

Icness wrote:I'm so freaking sick of everyone lapping at the testes of Albert Pujols all the time. You'd think he's Lou Gehrig, Cal Ripken, and Joe Morgan all rolled into one perfect package.


In all fairness he could go down as a better player then the three of them when all is said and done. He will have a better career than Ripken and Morgan, ,and all-in-all probably Gehrig. Sure he'll never play in 2,000 straight games but since when did staying healthy amount to greatness. The legacy you leave is what determines your greatness. Right now, at age 27 Albert Pujols has 257 Home Runs 781 RBI, is a career .330 hitter, has 1204 hits. Has never finished lower than 4th in the MVP voting. Hell he even won a gold glove last year. And has already won one World Series Ring.

The above is Jimmie Foxx like. Hank Aaron like. Ken Griffey like. Frank Robinson like. Those guys are legends. Freeking legends. Don't believe me...check it out... http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pujolal01.shtml
User avatar
HeelSox
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,303
And1: 0
Joined: Jan 03, 2004
Location: Hansbrough's World

 

Post#18 » by HeelSox » Thu May 24, 2007 1:56 pm

Find me a player who has had a better start to his career...otherwise, you're not very smart for judging a player of Pujols measure by one series...a series in which he played well in at that...sorry he didn't hit a homer. 7-11 sucks.
User avatar
lpsevier
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,367
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 28, 2005

 

Post#19 » by lpsevier » Thu May 24, 2007 2:13 pm

I'm pretty sure he didn't say Pujols wasn't a good player?
User avatar
Chach
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,330
And1: 2
Joined: Jan 23, 2003

 

Post#20 » by Chach » Thu May 24, 2007 5:37 pm

Icness wrote:All that I am saying is that he's not the Mr. Perfect that so much of the media makes him out to be. He's not free from making mistakes that lesser regarded players get routinely slammed for.


NOBODY is dude. You're a smart guy, you should know that. No player is perfect and almost everyone, even the greats, have some minor flaws. The media will always overhype players. Jeter has some clear holes in his game: He can't go to his right worth a damn and he doesn't hit for much power. But the media would make you think that he can walk on water. The media will always overhype the great players, just don't listen to them and then you can appreciate how great of a player Pujols is. mahalo
~Chach~

Return to The General MLB Board