OT Celtics From Tanking for Oden to Champs?

[Cru Thik]

So I guess they miss out on Oden but get a chip anyways. It goes to show you can tank in the NBA trying to get the #1 pick and then turn around and win it all anyways. I hope they enjoy this tainted championship in Boston.

113-79 4 min left KG Allen and Pierce still in the game jacking 3's just goes to show what kind of garbage comes from Boston.

[bballin76]

c'mon man, after what the Lakers did to us in 2001, it was great to see Kobe's team get destroyed like that, Boston or not.

No more MJ comparisons anymore either.

It's like the universe righted itself.

[Wildfire]

Sure as hell looks like fun though. It sucks because it feels like none of our teams (possibly except the Flyers sometime down the road) have a real legit shot at championships. Even when our teams went to the finals recently we were underdogs (usually massive ones at that).

Even while the Phillies look good now I still think they are a consistent offense and #2 starting pitcher away from being legit.

It's just very depressing.

[ITK9]

am I the only one here who was hapy with the result? I don't like Boston at all but i hate Lakers with all my heart.

[dbodner]

Even while the Phillies look good now I still think they are a consistent offense and #2 starting pitcher away from being legit.

Their offense has been the best in the league for years running. Their offense carried them to the playoffs last year with one of the worst team ERA's in history. This 'inconsistent' offense isn't valid IMO.

They do need a legit #2 pitcher. I have a feeling this is going to be the year they go for that.

[Sixersftw]

truly disgusted by the nba finals. Hate both teams every person in the nba finals sans pau/lamar/rondo. Elton? is that you? no. Sigh...

if we maybe had one championship in nearly 30 years, i would actually feel pretty solid about where every philly teams is right now except the birds.
I have amazingly high hopes for the phillies, that will be dashed when we get sweeped by whatever team gets hot at the end of the season. oh, and i agree w/ dbods. if we are still waiting on the offense to get consistency, then thats pretty scary.

[STChaser]

I feel all your pain but I like the direction our team is headed. I'm happy for Boston - happy for Doc, but I would rather have our team than theirs in terms of the long run. I know they're better than us but for how long? They were hungry and it showed. But now that they've gotten their rings, how hungry will they be next season, or the season after that?

And I'm much happier that Boston won it as opposed to LA. No way did I want Fishboy Gasol or the over-acting Vujacic wearing rings. Kobe has his rings already and had he won another without Shaq, it would have dispelled the myth that he rode on the coattails of Shaq in order to win championships.

I think we're heading in the right direction. We've got some young potential too in Thaddeus, Iguodala (though not a #1 option), Lou Williams, Sam, Carney, Evans (as a backup 4), etc. I know we still need a lot of pieces but Stephanski has put us in a position to get them. Also, remember that defense wins championships and our defense was pretty impressive last season. Give us a solid PF and some perimeter shooters like House and Posey, and I think the sky is the limit. We're just going to have to wait much longer. But I think the wait will have been worth it once our guys start growing into their potential.

STChaser

[sec-106]

LAL really helped dispel the myth that forgein players are soft, didn't they?

Could be wrong, but LAL didn't cover one game.

And please retract ANY mention of Odom to PHI that may have been made by me.

[tk76]

I have a question for you guys that I might ask to Boston fans:

Do you think they get less joy from winning the Finals given they basically had a mercenary team?

I don't dislike KG or Allen, but those players only threw on the Green in order to get a championship. They played their entire careers in other cities. Even Pierce was begging to leave before this year. Also, this team will have the shelf life of a Marlins World Series in that it will be blown up within a year or two.

I won't ask Boston fans right now- because it would be in poor taste- but I am curious.

Its one thing to add one missing vet to get you over the top (like Pete Rose in '80 and Moses in '83.) Its another thing entirely to bring in an entirely new group of vets. I give them credit as champions (and even give credit to Ainge and McHale for getting this done for Boston) but It is a strange way to win.

Probably I am wrong, and all that matters is winning and not who is wearing the jersey.

[Sixersftw]

when it comes to a championship, i'm like a 45 year old virgin, at this point i'll take it anyway i can get it. I'll take a mercenary team for the ring.

[dbodner]

but I would rather have our team than theirs in terms of the long run

Wait, what? You wouldn't trade our youth for a championship? What, do you expect this "core" to win 5 championships?

I don't dislike KG or Allen, but those players only threw on the Green in order to get a championship

They were traded for. It's not like they chose to sign there and jump ship. They were acquired via trades in which the celtics gave up legitimate assets (a 20/10 22 year old, a top 5 pick, 2 more draft picks). I can't see how that diminishes it. This championship doesn't diminish their careers, it validates their careers by showing what they can do when put on a properly constructed team.

[Wildfire]

Their offense has been the best in the league for years running. Their offense carried them to the playoffs last year with one of the worst team ERA's in history. This 'inconsistent' offense isn't valid IMO.

I agree their offense carried them INTO the playoffs, but then where did it go? We scored a combined 8 runs in the series against Colorado and 4 of those runs were because of J-Roll.

[tk76]

I agree that this CHIP validates KG, Allen, Pierce and the Celtics front office/

My question is do fans get the same joy from having a completely new team of vets thrown together and winning as they get from seeing a team build from bad to champion over the course of years.

For the casual fan a win is a win, but I personally really enjoy watching a team ascend over many years- but then again I haven't rooted for a champion in 25 years.

[Gant]

I can answer this.

I have seen the Celtics win titles through the draft, with trades, and a mix of the two.

It's fantastic any way you do it!

When Philly won their title in the early 80's they had acquired Moses and Dr. J from other teams in recent years. This was something like that.

Still 3 Boston starters were draftees (Perkins via draft day trade).

It feels great. It feels wonderful. It feels like heaven.

[dbodner]

I agree their offense carried them INTO the playoffs, but then where did it go? We scored a combined 8 runs in the series against Colorado and 4 of those runs were because of J-Roll.

so you're making that definitive conclusion that the offense is too inconsistent off of one playoff series?

Ok.

I do agree that a sustained playoff run isn't going to happen with this pitching staff. This offense is fine.

[Wildfire]

I think if they traded Pierce then Celtic fans would probably be slightly, and I mean slightly, disappointed.

I don't see how they are a mercenary team, it's not like that team won't be together for another 3-4 years (with 2 of those years being legit shots to get another championship). Pierce, Allen, and Garnett aren't all that old. But what sucks for them, is when the big three go, they will be easily the worst team in the league without any assets (unless someone trades for their cap space).

But still, I'd take 5-6 years of sucking for one championship, let alone the possibility of more.

[tk76]

No doubt it is worth it. The team they were building last yearwas going nowhere, and Pierce was wasted on such a crappy team.

I'm sure C fans grew to identify with the new players over the course of a year- but I still think its not quite the same as how Spurs, Detroit, and even Miami and Lakers fans have watched their teams be built to champions.

It one thing to make trades and signings to go from a good to a great team- its another to swap out your entire team for older established vets looking for one good chance to capof their careers with a championship.

I certainly can;t ever remember a crap young team being turned into a star laden older vet team in one year. I guess all of the credit goes to Ainge for beingf able to pull it off- but I still dislike the guy.

[STChaser]

Wait, what? You wouldn't trade our youth for a championship? What, do you expect this "core" to win 5 championships?

That depends on what we were getting back. I wouldn't trade our youth for the Garnett, Allen, and Pierce because I think they're going to be a one-and-done. Now, would I trade our youth for 3 younger star caliber players like Dwight Howard, LeBron, and Chris Paul, that were more likely to win it for many years and be exciting to watch as well? Absolutely. In a flash.

I know you won't understand this dabods but I REALLY like our young players. Maybe I'm hyping them up too much but when the second youngest player in the league comes into the NBA and already looks like a veteran his first season, that gives me reason to believe he's got star potential.

And while I know Iguodala had a bad series against Detroit, I also don't base his entire worth on one series against one of the best defenders in the league. Kobe had a subpar series while being defended by Pierce and Posey but we all know he's worth more that what we saw from him against Boston. Iguodala has lots of room to grow and I believe he will.

Lou Williams is severely underrated around here as well. This kid is money in crunch time and is only going to get better.

Carney has struggled along the way, but I do see him having a decent season next year - especially if Willie is moved. I think Carney needs to continue working on defense and hitting those 3's. He needs to be our version of Eddie House - a high energy player who can open up the floor and spread the D with perimeter shooting.

Sam has probably reached his full potential as of last season but he's still a nice player to have at the 5. He would be well served if we had a solid PF with some post moves working alongside him.

But what I like about our team most of all is our identity - our defensive intensity, our up-tempo offense, and the fact that we have hard working, good characters, who leave it on the floor every night. I only see good things for this team's future. So to answer your question, no, I wouldn't trade our core for what I perceive to be a one-and-done contender.



STChaser

[Wildfire]

I know you won't understand this dabods but I REALLY like our young players. Maybe I'm hyping them up too much but when the second youngest player in the league comes into the NBA and already looks like a veteran his first season, that gives me reason to believe he's got star potential.

This team as currently constructed, even five years down the line, has ZERO shot at a chip. There are just too many teams out there who already are or will be better than this team (Portland, NO, Atlanta, Cavs, Orlando, etc.).

Even if we somehow got Brand, that's still not enough. Now if we got Brand and pulled off a trade for say Michael Redd, then we have a legit shot for a number of years. Only problem is, we probably have to give up Young and Lou Williams to get that done.

Miller
Redd
Iguodala
Brand
Dalembert

That team could definitely win a chip or two.

[dbodner]

I know you won't understand this dabods but I REALLY like our young players. Maybe I'm hyping them up too much but when the second youngest player in the league comes into the NBA and already looks like a veteran his first season, that gives me reason to believe he's got star potential.

I do understand it, and I was on board with thad before most. That being said, you play this game to win a championship. Boston has already accomplished that. I would trade the shot of someone developing into a star for a championship without blinking twice.

sometimes people are more enamored with the thought of a star down the road than with the star. The celtics ARE a great team. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If I could trade our young talent for a team that has a legit shot at winning 2-3 championships, as the Celtics do, you take that chance. I can't believe people would like players like Lou Williams and Carney get in the way of that.