Backups... shouldnt we go YOUNG!?

[NashtyNas]

Ok, so i read that we were looking for a backup for Nash (no kidding?) and our top priority seems to be Tyrron Lue and we seem to be in his top 3 choices. Nash is 34 and getting old, and Lue is 31. I understand Lue has played with Shaq, but the guy doesnt bring us size at the PG nor excellent defence. While back, we were looking at Allan Houston to fill the wings for us. I doubt going OLDER helps us.

I think looking into the d-league should be the FO's priority.
I really like the Stampede, and they havfe two guys that can fill our needs. Livingston and Cory Violette.

Livingston: PPG: 16.5 RPG: 4.2 APG: 10.5

Violette: PPG-13.4 RPG 7.1 APG: 1.8

Randy brings us size, speed (some), and DEFENCE at the pg. He also gets amazing rebounding for the position, which we certainly need. He proved he can lead a team, and he has great pass first ability.
This guy is amazing from the 3pt land aswell. I believe he can be had at the league minimum, maybe part of MLE? (1.5mil/yr for 2 yrs).

Violette gives us great size at the 3 (6'8), but with quickness. He has great rebounding and can shoot from the 3 and has a great midrange game. He can defend some and is a young guy. He can be had at the league minimum for sure.

My question is, why isnt the D-League our priority to sign YOUNG backups and not get 30 year olds to back up 30 year olds? We need energy guys a-la Randy. Anyone with me? If we do this, we still have about 3.2mil left in the MLE to sign 2 guys and fill out our roster. (Giriceck/Marks)

Leavues us with:

Nash/Livingston/Barbosa
Bell/Barbosa/Giriceck
Hill/Violette/Tucker
Stoudemire/Marks
Shaq/Lopez

IR:
Strawberry
__________
__________

We'd have 13 players and be about 7mil above (we are already above threshold 1.5 mil or so and adding 5.8 is around 7mil). So Robert has to play $7mil extra. CMON ROBERT!

[jlove_26]

I agree with your whole post. We should be looking at the D-League. There is one thing I want to point out to you is the fact that Randy Livingston (although throws out grat stats in the D-League) is 32 years old. So the fact that you compare Ty Lue's age of 31 and Nash at 34 being a problem and wanting to go younger is retroactive.

Viollette is a guy I like though. Same with Benson and Cage (who are on the Suns summer league roster)

[NashtyNas]

Sorrry. i did not notice the guy's age :S. i still would love him because he actually provides size. i went through a lot of dleague rosters and couldnt find a more balanced, sizeable pg that is pass first really.

[asudevil]

how long have some of you been suns fans? or how many of you have short memeries.

Randy Livingston is the guy who inadvertantly ruined Ton Googs career, and hurt our franchise A BUNCH. i honestly dont think there is a chance he'll EVER see a sun's uni again.

and....any guy on the wrong side of 30 and STILL in the D league really has no purpose on a team trying to give it one more go at a champ.

[JohnVancouver]

I agree with your whole post. We should be looking at the D-League. There is one thing I want to point out to you is the fact that Randy Livingston (although throws out grat stats in the D-League) is 32 years old. So the fact that you compare Ty Lue's age of 31 and Nash at 34 being a problem and wanting to go younger is retroactive.

Viollette is a guy I like though. Same with Benson and Cage (who are on the Suns summer league roster)

-- Here's where we miss BC, who for all his faults, has a great eye for players in the wilderness. he brought Anthony Parker and JMoon to the raps, both of whom were absolute bargains. So yeah - I hope we're beating the underbrush for similar guys.

I'll have to look up the Ton Googs thing - news to me. Probably in one of the decades where the NBA pissed me off and I paid no attention.
That's surely a near baseball-quality name though.

[JohnVancouver]

I'll have to look up the Ton Googs thing - news to me. "


--- Ok - Tom Gugliotta. I still like Ton Googs though, who I picture as a 400-pound, 7'9" Senegalese goatherder who learned the game throwing elephant patties into a dead tree.

[pidi]

we discussed randy the last year, i´m sure you guys discussed him even the year before.
he puts up nice numbers in d-league - so is tucker & straw. i think putting up big numbers
in d-league don´t mean that you´ll put up big number in the nba.
but for sure, randy could be a guy who needs a second chance, and we could realy give this
second chance to him...

[Maldonado]

Livingston is retired from basketball now.

[NashtyNas]

I guess Livingston isnt an option, but what i meant is that we should look in the d-league for "diamonds in the rough" a la Jamario Moon like someone else showed. The guy was a starter for a playoff team. If we could get something like him, and a pg, i would be happy.

Other Players I like in the D-League:

Name PPG RPG APG Height Defence Age Pos.

Will Conroy: 17.4 4.8 8.3 6"2 Decent (upgrade over nash) 25 PG

Earl Calloway: 19.0 5.1 5.8 6"3 Above Avg (great for us) 25 PG

Sean Banks 21.7 5.4 3.0 6"8 Good 23 PF

Ivan Johnson 13.9 6.7 1.0 6"8 Avg 24 PF

Kevin Kruger 13.3 2.7 7.1 6"2 Avg 25 PG

Adam Harrington 16.4 2.8 3.4 6"5 Good 28 SG/SF

Julius Hodge 23.7 8.3 6.0 6"7 Decent (Above Avg) 25 SG/SF

Out of this group, i like 3 guys that could actually make our team.
Kruger, Hodge, and Banks.
Kruger is a Calderon type PG, pass first, good shooter, and trys on defence when he wants.
Hodge is the perfect combination of size and speed and he can hit the 3 ball. He can also pass the ball, rebound well for his size, and drive to the basket. Exactly what we need.
Sean Banks seems to be a perfect backup for Stoudemire. He can shoot the 3 ball when open, gets to the foul line, and is an energy big.

Nash/Kruger/Barbosa
Bell/Barbosa/Giriceck
Hill/Hodge/Tucker
Stoudemire/Banks
Shaq/Lopez

IR
Strawberry
Marks
Skinner

Thing is, i know even if people put up good numbers in the D-League, it doesnt mean they are good in the NBA, but Hodge and Banks have both played on NBA teams, especially Hodge. I like Kruger because he is pass first, set up PG. He would be perfect for us. Also gives us cap flexibilty if we sign them at parts of MLE for 2 years because all of them would be out in 2 years (same time as SHAQ/Nash/Bell.. gives us another 5mil off the books. Thats 21+12+6+5 =45MIL off the books. Pretty good?)

[Itmotep]

I laugh at the guy who said Livingston ruined Googs' career. He fell onto the guys leg when someone fell/pushed him over. He did not intentionally fall onto his leg or kick his knee out or something. HE FELL onto Googs' leg. Its Googs' stupid own fault for not rehabbing all the way and 100% and just being a half ass about it. Blame Googs not Livingston. Thats all.

[asudevil]

I laugh at the guy who said Livingston ruined Googs' career. He fell onto the guys leg when someone fell/pushed him over. He did not intentionally fall onto his leg or kick his knee out or something. HE FELL onto Googs' leg. Its Googs' stupid own fault for not rehabbing all the way and 100% and just being a half ass about it. Blame Googs not Livingston. Thats all.

do you know what inadvertently means? I NEVER said he did anything intentional.

Livingston will forever be linked to googs.....and therefore will probably never want to be linked to the suns again.

learn to read

[NashtyNas]

Can we cut the flaming? Stick to the topic, which is who you would like the suns to sign (Minimum or MLE guys ofcourse). Any other people than Kruger/Hodge/Banks that fit us better? i specifically think those 3 are perfect because all of them can shoot, defend, and give you 20+ productive minutes every game on a good team (like house / allen /posey on boston).

[chrice]

I agree with you there. Lue doesn't bring much to the table. He was labeled the so called "iverson stopper" several years back, but basically all he did was hold onto AI's jersey the entire time.

We should definitely be looking into younger players that may have some future potential. It makes no sense to spend the LLE or part of the MLE on an old backup who only excels in bringing the ball across the halfcourt line. A half-intelligent GM right now, would be looking at the d-league and undrafted players really hard...especially with our salary situation.

[TASTIC]

Can we cut the flaming? Stick to the topic, which is who you would like the suns to sign (Minimum or MLE guys ofcourse). Any other people than Kruger/Hodge/Banks that fit us better? i specifically think those 3 are perfect because all of them can shoot, defend, and give you 20+ productive minutes every game on a good team (like house / allen /posey on boston).

There's a reason none of those guys even played 20mins ALL season for any NBA team, they simply aren't productive.

Lue is the sort of guy we need - proven in HIS role as a backup PG who can spot start, hit the 3 and won't rock the boat...don't rock the boat baby, rock the boat, don't tip the boat over...stupid M&Ms advert

Anyway, Hodge looks like he'd be the pick of the bunch, if he weighed more than my half empty can of deodorant he might have stuck in the NBA instead of bouncing around..he's got some skills as a big guard/swing, but doesn't specialise in any one area ie shooting, D, playmaking etc...

[-SDU-]

julius hodge played for my local team the adelaide 36ers last season and i have to say i was amazed he wasnt playing NBA. The guy was hands down better than anyone in the entire league, we were lucky to have him

i believe he will sign with the nets and the GM who drafted him originally Kiki Vandegwhe, but should he be available, i would love to get him

[NashtyNas]

julius hodge played for my local team the adelaide 36ers last season and i have to say i was amazed he wasnt playing NBA. The guy was hands down better than anyone in the entire league, we were lucky to have him

i believe he will sign with the nets and the GM who drafted him originally Kiki Vandegwhe, but should he be available, i would love to get him

Me too, thats why i said hes on my top list. I personally dont mind thin gaurds as long as they are productive, and this guy can flat out play, atleast in the D-League. I bet he will be productive in the NBA. Also, Tastic, i disagree. A lot of these players need chances to prove themselves. Lue maybe what we need on offense, but defensively, hes just as short as nash and doesnt improve our perimiter D because he's lost a couple steps. Now, id much rather have Kruger and Hodge over Barbosa @ the point and hill being injured in the playoffs again. AND id much rather have Banks back Stoudemire up than Marks because hes young and got something to prove. These guys are like the D-League's Pargo, Posey and Landry. Energy guys that will do what they need to.. i feel Hodge is the best bet along with Kruger. Banks maybe a long shot but id much rather have a young PF than a old one any day.

EDIT: unless the old PF is like Alan Henderson and can preach DEFENCE AND REBOUNDING to Stoudemire. But i think the coachs need to do that a la Patrick Ewing or Paul Silas. If only Kerr added one of those guys to the Coaching staff..

[eastsidecrossover]

Good take pidi, and I agree with you. We have DJ and Tuck, who I think can be productive as backups. I think we need to bring in an experienced backup pg, but am not sold on Lue.

However, I do find it funny how sd1306 puts good guys on the IR over nobodies in the D-league. There is no way Skinner, DJ or tuck are on the IR. These guys need to be backups over these scrubs you are suggesting. I think we could find some decent player as a backup in the D-league, but then again, there is a reason why they are there. I think we need to use the vet minimum on a PG and Skinner. But need to use part of the MLE on a backup SF.

For those old timers on this board, you all know STS would be pounding his chest for Ricky Davis as a backup SF. With 3 rooks, Lue and so forth, we need a proven backup to Hill if we want to be a solid team all around.

But then again, depending on how certain players play, they may be traded later.

[walkingart]

Let us not forget, DJ and Tuck spent some time in the DLeague for us last season.

Tucker played in 5 games and averaged 29.8 points and 7 rebs. in December, came back and played two more games in Jan where he shot 2-10 in one and only scored 19 in the other. Then in March he went down to the DLeague and put up 33.5 a night for an 8 game stretch, with 2 games in between where he saw limited minutes but shot 6-9 and 4-6 respectively.

DJ only went down for one stint, and played 5 games; he averaged 31.6 points, 3.8 rebs, 3.2 ast, and 1.4 stl.

There aren't any better bargains out there for young, untested players then the two we have. Lets go get a veteran point who can spell Nash if need be and hope that DJ can play some point if we need him too.

And I definately agree with eastside in that if we are going to go and look at free agents, SF is definately a spot where we need to add someone. I wish Tucker were a bit taller and a lot longer.

[JohnVancouver]

[quote="eastsidecrossover"]Good take pidi, and I agree with you. We have DJ and Tuck, who I think can be productive as backups. I think we need to bring in an experienced backup pg, but am not sold on Lue.

--- If Strawbs is going to get minutes this year, why not D Stoudamire to fill in the rest. In short stints, he's still a baller.

[NashtyNas]

Julius DOES play SF. Hes long and can gaurd both SF's and SG's. Also, I disagree with you. Tucker did put up good numbers in the D-League, but remember, he only has 15 games of d-league experience.
The guys i was looking at have over 2-3 years of nbdl exp and a year or two on nba teams. Hodge seems to be the perfect fit for us.. i really like this guy and want him on our team for sure.