In what order do you rank these guys...

[BlaZeN27]

Three potential defensive SF's that you guys have been linked to in trade rumors. Rank them in order, accordingly (not who the better player is, but the best fit for your team)...


Heres mine:


Marion
Artest
Wallace



I'm not just saying Marion because I'm a Heat fan, I'm saying Marion because I honestly think hes the best fit. He's not a nut case like Artest that can be a cancer, and hes not injury prone like Wallace is.

I know the fact that he people say he "wants to be the man" is a big negative, but what about Artest? Even though Marion WANTS to be, he still plays like a great complimentary role player. He doesn't take a lot of shots. I think Artest takes to many shots, and isn't that great of a scorer.

[Rox_Nix_Nox]

Artest then a far behind wallace followed by marion.

Marion is garbage IMO the guy is just as soft around the rim as Odom can be.

[BlaZeN27]

I agree with that when Marion try's to go up for layups. Except 90% of the time Marion just dunks it, so hes really not a bad finisher.


IMO, Marion is better then Odom in every aspect except creating (for himself and others), and passing. Thing about Trix though is, he will get about the same amount of point Odom does without plays being called for him. And with Gasol, Kobe, and now Bynum I think that's exactly what you guys need.

BTW, calling Marion "garbage" is a little over board. A 4 time all-star, arguably the best rebounder SF ever, and probably the best role player ever. Because that's what he is, the PERFECT roleplayer.

[Rox_Nix_Nox]

Odom always destroyed marion. Like i said in my opinion Marion to me is one of the most overrated players in the league. When he played with the suns he was the last player i'd worry about. I think there was a trade rumor that the suns wanted Odom for marion and the Lakers declined.

and also There's no plays called for Odom either. Most of his points come from rebounds, fast-break, and easy layups from kobe or pau. Odom can't create for himself either but when he tries to his dumb ass ends up in a charge because everyone knows he's going left. Honestly Both marion and odom suck because when the moment comes for them to step up in a crucial moment they can't.

[BlaZeN27]

I posted this in the trade thread, so I'll just post it in here too...


Odom has shot under 30% from beyond the 3 point line in the past 2 years while still taking an average of 150 3's per year.

Marion is a career 34% from 3 for his career while having multiple seasons with 200+ 3 point attempts, one with even 341 attempts while shooting 34%. Only shooting that Lamar is better at is off the dribble, mid range shots.

Hes a whole lot better defender Marion, I don't think its even close. Marion can play Chris Paul one night, T-Mac the next, then Dirk the next. Not only does he bring a lot better man defense, but he brings you great off ball defense as well. He gives you 2 steals and over 1 block, which is a rare thing in the NBA. I know you guys have seen LO abuse Marion, but that doesn't make him a bad defender. Every good defender has a few players that give them fits, and Odom is one of them. I'm not claiming Marion is Bruce Bowen when it comes to man defense, but what he makes up for it in defensive versatility.

Better rebounder? How do you figure that? Consider Odom's career average is under 9, while Marion's is 10.1 RPG. I know I know, he played in Phoenix, well I watched him play for us last year where he averaged 11 RPG. The guys is a TERRIFIC rebounder, arguably the best rebounding small forward ever.

Then add the fact that Marion scores more points then LO on a higher FG%, and is a MUCH better free throw shooter I have a hard time seeing how saying Odom is better then Marion (like some Laker fans claim) has any truth to it.

I think Marion would be an amazing fit for the triangle, his ability to slash is perfect for it. Your team has enough really good passers that you could live without one more, especially since your big problem in the finals was defense, something Marion would bring.

I have no problem with you guys not liking Odom for Marion, but saying Odom is equal to if not better then Marion is kind of absurd. The thing none of your seem to mention which would be the biggest thing for me is Marion's age, and contract.

And I would think Ariza would no longer be needed with Marion on the team, it would be pretty redundant.

[DubaLakers]

Artest, Marion, Wallace (Ben,Gerald?). If you mean Gerald he'd be #1 on talent, but because he has only one gear and he's always hurt, so he'd have to go #3. Marion would be the better fit, but he's thinks he deserves superstar love and pay, F him.

The one thing no one seems to mentioning about Artest is to me on defense he'd be our #1 defender, just fantastic, but on offense he'd struggle I think. If you watch him in Sactown he does a lot of 1 on 1 breaking down his defender, backing him down etc, that's his game, the Triangle to me would be rough for him.

I prefer Artest as a person, but Marion whining about pay and credit and love, really set me off, I'm saying to myself, this guy was getting paid 15M 2nd highest pay on the Suns, on one of the top 5 best teams in the L, had Nash making him look like a HOF, lives in kick back PHX, why is he such a whiney bitch? I want to get mine son, where's my fn' Kwon?

[dockingsched]

I have no problem with you guys not liking Odom for Marion, but saying Odom is equal to if not better then Marion is kind of absurd. The thing none of your seem to mention which would be the biggest thing for me is Marion's age, and contract.

his contract is the biggest thing for you? guy is expecting an unreasonable contract, how is that good? next off season he'll be a 31 yr old expecting a 13-15 million a yr deal when in reality he's no better than a fourth option. his contract isn't a good thing. he's not even happy when he's paid like a 1st option, who knows what ego damage he'll take when he's paid like the 4th option he is.

[BlaZeN27]

No, I'm saying that his contract and him wanting a lot of money would be the biggest negative if I was a Laker fan.

But I think his "whinning" is over blown. Its not like hes a locker room cancer like Artest or anything.

BTW, He asked for a 3 year, 13 million dollar a year extension from us, that's not really asking for super star money. I was actually kind of upset we did not extend him for that. It was a short deal, and only 13 million a year. I also think LA is big enough of a market that he will still get enough recognition, even though there's Kobe, Bynum, and Pau. He was mad about being over looked on the Suns, but they weren't title contenders really. I think if hes playing good on the Lakers and you guys are getting to the finals he will be more then happy. He has a great attitude from what I've seen and he just wants to win.

Offensively hes a 3rd or 4th option, but hes worth 12-13 million dollars a year, I'm sorry. There's more to a player then just scoring. He does all the little things needed to win, he is THE perfect role player. He does so many little things, and hustles his ass off. He also never gets hurt and can play all day long.

Theres no doubt in my mind that you guys would win a title next year if you ended up with Marion. I would actually prefer to keep him, but it doesn't look like we will.

[dockingsched]

the perfect role player for the lakers is someone like shane battier, not shawn marion. maybe you meant that "perfect role player" in general, but when marion isn't a very good 3pt shooter and isn't anything above average on man defense, he's not the perfect role player. marion is a good help defender, he's also a versatile defender in that he can hold his own against all kinds of offensive threats, but he's not defensive stopper.

[BlaZeN27]

Your right, he lacks a consistent 3 point shot, but its not like Odom, G. Wallace, or Artest don't either.

And you guys are mistaking about his man defense. I'm sure the fact that Odom has destroyed him in the past makes you guys biased towards this, but Marion is a very good on ball, man defender. Hes not GREAT, but hes definitely more then "above average".

He has trouble against bigger, and strong players that post him up. Which is exactly what Odom did to him, because Marion was playing PF for the Suns. Good thing he would be playing SF for you guys, where he has no trouble guarding quicker perimeter players like T-Mac and Manu, and can slide over an play soft PFs like Dirk, and super quick PGs like Chris Paul and Tony Parker.

He is one of the quickest players in the league, even still at 30.

[supaflash]

I agree with you Blaze for the most part, but I also agree with Dubba and others. On another board I was saying how much Phoenix would miss all his intangibles and defense and they did big time and he was meant to be a SF not a PF. He can definitely match up well with all the big SFs in the league and while he isn't as physical and intimidating as Artest, he's pretty good in his ability to defend. He'd be great with two 7 footers backing him. Lamar is a much better post defender though. You have to look at the intangibles that we lose with Lamar though too. The rebounding is equal and at a SF spot Marion is probably better suited to chase more down but he doesn't have Lamars ability to bring the ball up the court and run the fast breaks. That ability takes a lot of pressure off Kobe and also helps mask the Lakers lack of a true starting PG. He's also a much better passer which you need to be at the 3 spot in the triangle. Even if his shot isn't falling, with Pau and Bynum forcing the defense to really cover the rim and then Kobe on the perimeter, Lamar should be able to do a lot of things with just quick short little moves and passes without even taking a bunch of 3s or long jumpers.

I'm also not sure about his fit in the Triangle. For one, its hard to learn and his 3 isn't consistent enough that its a perfect fit. His slashing off of the twin towers and his transition ability would be nice though. Overall, he's probably a better fit at the 3 then Lamar but I think we have more plans and uses for Lamar if he stays like backing up the Towers and possibly running the O from a Point-Forward type position.

That all aside there's just too much questions about Marion's attitude and whatnot to make it worth the risk. I'll give him, he's a pro and when he's on the court he always does everything he can and thats why part of me would like this deal but here's the main reasons I don't want it to happen:

1. First I think we want to see how Lamar at the 3 with the Towers works. I've seen Lamar siwtch on to guards and do a great job at staying in front of them, but when he's down in the post all game its harder to get yourself to do that. If he's at the 3 and on the perimeter full time and in perimeter defense full time he'll be just as good as Marion. His length, size, and quickness will help him transition IMHO. I think his shot will come along much better as well since at the 3 spot they come in better situations and much more in rhythm then anything he's gotten at the 4 and he's already done a great job slashing to the hoop when Pau was dominating the post.

2. The contract issue IS a big deal. Its very unlikely that we would be able to keep Marion after this year. 13 mil a year for a 4th option? Sorry no, especially when Drew will be getting a big raise. If Lamar is still here, he's already said he wants to retire here and he would sign for a lot less. Other guys like Artest, Wallace, Prince, Battier would either already be cheaper or would be willing to stay cheaper as well. Its just not worth it for a 1 year experiment. His expiring doesn't help our cap space at all so we'd rather get a good piece that will fit for a few years.

3. We basically have a younger, slightly lesser version of Marion in Ariza. I'd rather take the chance that he continues to develop. He wants to be here, he could have opted out and got a longer deal somewhere else. If Lamar isn't working at the 3 we already know he works well at the 4 with Pau or Drew at center and we know we can get to the finals with that lineup if necessary.

4. Our chemistry was one of our biggest assets last year, its not worth the gamble to blow that up. (This is also why I don't really want to get Artest either) I would only trust quality personalities like Battier or Prince in a deal.

So I'm not saying he wouldn't be a better fit, but its just not worth it imo

[Italianhanger]

when Artest has his head on right he is easily heads and shoulders above marion and wallace
though his offense skill set isnt as good as his defense, the reason being he is in the top 3 defensive players playing in the league right now.. you can argue about that but this guy gets the ball and in your head every game..
Wallace could push the ball up the floor every single game with a ton intensity
unfortunately, the brother is injury prone
i thought sac town got a steal when they picked up Wallace then the bobcats drafted him during the expansion draft
Marion was good but not great, since he was playing in that D'antonie system which made his stats overblown.. he also had the fortune of being paired with good points Starbury, Nashy, and kidd

Artest all around offense/all around defense
Wallace offensive machine/excellent low post defense
Marion stat filling offense /decent all around defense

[Verbal]

Off the top of my head? Hm.

1. AK47 - Triangle Point-Forward that LO isn't; great perimeter/interior defense, half-court passing/dribbling, satisfactory shooting, off-the-ball skills, and rebounding/finishing skills. (only weakness is his durability)

2. Ginobili/Bowen- No point in discussing these two further - they love SA and vice versa.

2. a Marion - Someone that I feel can be a great complement to Kobe.

3. Artest - would have to shoot less (duh), pass more, and improve his perimeter shooting (20ft. extended).

4. G. Wallace - needs to improve outside shooting and durability.

5. Raja Bell - 3pt shooter, solid defender, and mental toughness.

6. Prince/J-Ho(ward) - solid perimeter defenders that can replace LO's scoring as well.

[DEEP3CL]

1. Artest
2. ?
3. ?

We need defense, a defensive mentality guy and Artest is that guy. We don't need a "think about scoring " only SF. And Marion has some issues he needs to deal with.

[Gerald3Wallace]

i dont think wallace is a scoring mentality sf...if hes in the lane...and ur goin up for a dunk or a layup..hes gonna contest it no problem..

[snaquille oatmeal]

this thread is useless unless you take into consideration luxuary tax, and the actual possibility of the teams agreeing on a trade.

it doesn't matter which player is better than the other or which player you think would be the best fit on your team. so far the Lakers seem to have made an offer to the Kings, but have not agreed on anything so there is a slight possibilty there, especially because Artest would be cheaper than Wallace or Marion.

so if we are talking on fantasy trades then I would take Artest over Marion and Wallace.

[kno]

A 4 time all-star, arguably the best rebounder SF ever, and probably the best role player ever.

[Slava]

Off the top of my head? Hm.

1. AK47 - Triangle Point-Forward that LO isn't; great perimeter/interior defense, half-court passing/dribbling, satisfactory shooting, off-the-ball skills, and rebounding/finishing skills. (only weakness is his durability)

2. Ginobili/Bowen- No point in discussing these two further - they love SA and vice versa.

2. a Marion - Someone that I feel can be a great complement to Kobe.

3. Artest - would have to shoot less (duh), pass more, and improve his perimeter shooting (20ft. extended).

4. G. Wallace - needs to improve outside shooting and durability.

5. Raja Bell - 3pt shooter, solid defender, and mental toughness.

6. Prince/J-Ho(ward) - solid perimeter defenders that can replace LO's scoring as well.

Nice list. I could add Shane Battier (perfect fit for us imo) and Stephen Jackson to that list.

[Verbal]

Shane and S-Jax are two of my favorites.

I don't think we can get either of them cheap though. :-/

[TylersLakers]

I would seriously take Posey over all those 3.

Posey, while he may not be the player all those players are.. He knows his role. He plays tough. He hits clutch outside shots.

Gerald Wallace, Odom, and Marion's outside shooting are very iffy at best. Posey; shooting wise.. Is better than all three.

While all of those players fill up "stat" categories, like blocks and steals, Posey is the better man defender.

Now, Posey obviously doesn't have the creating ability that Odom, Wallace and Marion have, but playing with Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum.. we won't need that. We need someone who can space the floor and bring toughness.

All equals up to James Posey. We also keep Odom with him.