Cle/Dal/Clipper trade

heathmalc · Post #1 » by **heathmalc** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:58 am

This trade is one I made-up based on rumors that Dallas has Josh Howard on the Block... the Fact that Dallas is interested in Kaman, and the Cavaliers needs.

Clippers want shooting guards for Kaman.

Dallas wants big man and some bench depth

Cleveland would like a big-man for depth and a good sixth man

Clippers Get Sasha Pavlovic, Jerry Stackhouse, Terrance Kinsey, Cleveland's 2009 1st round pick
(They lose Chris Kaman)

Dallas gets: Chris Kaman, Wally Szczerbiak
(Dallas loses Diop,Stackhouse,Gerald Green, and Josh Howard)

Cleveland gets:Diop, Josh Howard, and Gerald Green
(Cavs lose Wally Szczerbiak,Sasha, 1st round pick)

Clipper get three guys that can score the ball. Not so much Kinsey, but Sasha and Stackhouse will actually give them options...which they dont currently have. In addition, they get an extra 1st round draft pick.

Dallas gets Kaman for Josh Howard afterall (Clippers turned them down last week), they also get rid of Diop, who although is a defensive beast at center, he is a black hole on offense. He has a 5 year contract at the mid-level exception. Gerald Green got no burn in Dallas, and Josh Howard is a player they had gave-up on, and has been rapidly losing value over the last 6 months. Dallas gets the 3 point guy that they have been lacking..and the Knowledge that Wally can play small ball (from Cavs days) will come in handy for Rick Carlisle (assuming Wally doesnt request a buyout).

Cleveland gets a good back-up center, who we are familiar with. Diop learned his game here, so it wont be hard for him to fit right in with out big-man rotation. Yeah, he isn't a scorer, but he may be the best defensive center in the league.... something that is overlooked because he rarely ever scores. But the Cavs are used to that (Ben Wallace). Josh Howard can guard all 3 perimeter positions, and can score in bunches. He has played SG before, but has mostly been used at SF and PF due to athleticism. Cavaliers may start him at SG.. or give him 30 minutes a game with the second unit. The #1 pick we give up wont be worth a lot to us, so it isnt a big loss. More importantly, we protect ourselves with an extra bigman, and a SF/SG who can guard Kobe/Pierce/ or even Garnett and STAT.

The trade looks a little lopsided for the Clippers, but the best offer they have got so far is Gerald Wallace or Josh Howard... neither of which are in the price range/years they want. Sasha, Stack and Kinsey give them three different guys to keep the spot respectable until eric Gordon is ready. Plus they get the #1 pick.

InBoobieWeTrust · Post #2 » by **InBoobieWeTrust** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:49 pm

I don't think Dallas does it.

SportsBoy · Post #3 » by **SportsBoy** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:43 pm

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

witnessmoboobie · Post #4 » by **witnessmoboobie** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:07 pm

It is a pretty good trade, but if we are going to get a big man, I want a guy who can score inside and work the paint. If we get Diop we would need to continue to have big production from Z and Andy (not the Z of the last 4 games). I think the Cavs should stand pat for now unless there is an injury.

mup · Post #5 » by **mup** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:17 am

No.

Diop sucks. Green can't play. Howard is a cancer and doesn't fit with this team. This is a great trade in NBA Live but in the real world, it makes the team worse on the court because it hurts the chemistry and it also causes the Cavs to lose its greatest asset in Wally's contract. Diop would never see the rotation. Bad trade.

GoLebron · Post #6 » by **GoLebron** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:14 pm

Just doesn't work for Dallas. They get way too thin at the wing position by sending Green, Stack, and Howard around in the trade.

NashtyNas · Post #7 » by **NashtyNas** » Thu Jan 1, 2009 2:54 am

Neither of the others do it. No homer trades please

LAC might but its just stupid to stack up your roster with mediocre players for no reason at all, even if they are expiring. They could easily net themselves a solid young player and a draft pick for Kaman.

heathmalc · Post #8 » by **heathmalc** » Thu Jan 1, 2009 8:11 pm

This was not a "homer" trade. If you look closer, and ignore the names, then you may understand why such a deal would be done. However...the Clippers have said recently they are not interested in trading any of their big-men...although I dont believe it, as Kaman publicaly cursed at Dunleavy, and they pretty-much hate each-other. That being said... The Clips may need some sweetener... Either another pick, or maybe Darnell Jackson.

As for Dallas. They "appear" to get weaker on the wings... but in reality they get stronger. By moving Diop's contract (A defensive big..with little offense), and Adding Kaman as their Center...they suddenly have someone besides Dirk who can post-up. Dirk is able to play the perimeter more, or roam. JJ berrea has done very well there and is a big part of what they are doing. Jason Terry is their other major threat. But what makes this trade attractive to Dallas, is that they get rid of long-term contracts in Diop and Howard, and it allows them to have some flexibility in the summer to sign another young piece in-addition to their draft picks. As for Gerald Green... He is a bust that has played like crap in all-three stops of his short career. He would probably be bought-out by the Cavs.

Josh Howard is very talented...but the Dallas situation is causing too many problems. He does not want to be there. It is believed that he could resurrect his career in another setting. He is not a cancer..as some have said in Dallas...but he definitely wants out of there.

For the Cavaliers... Diop is a VERY good defensive center. He doesn't go well with Ben obviously, and we wouldn't really want him to play with Varejao... but he can REPLACE either Ben or Varejao...and although his contract is long...his per-40 numbers on the defensive end are near the top in every category. Since JJ is our future at PF...he would be a great match with JJ. He is also insurance for Varejao...if he decides to take a contract elsewhere.

I think Josh would do better in Cleveland. LeBron and the rest of the locker-room is on one page...and we have a lot of big guys... Josh wont be even close to being a big voice in our locker-room. I think he'd fit himself in, and try to prove to the other players that he hasn't lost anything.

This trade is a lot better than it appears... for all of the teams. Sometimes a well-known name can make a trade appear lop-sided... but this trade would be pretty decent for all teams involved. The Cavs take on huge contracts, a BIG man with no offense, a player that Dallas was once high on, but is now considered a cancer in Dallas, and lose 1 or 2 picks.... kind of risky move..... Clips lose Kaman, pick up a pick or two, and some bench players (which they dont have currently)... and cap flexibility.. but lose a big who has done well...although he and the coach dont like one-another...kinda risky......Dallas brings in a post-presence who automatically makes their team younger, and allows Dampier to go to the bench, where he will dominate 2nd units... Dirk is allowed to roam again...which is what made Dallas so potent a couple years ago... plus they get a lot of flexibility... a nice upgrade, and nice youth movement...but still a little risky....

This is a risky move for all 3 teams. It may be most risky for the Cavaliers, who will lose all 3 of their wing-players: Kinsey, Sasha and Wally.... However... Josh has played SG... so the Cavs would only need to make a secondary trade with their exception to pick-up a Trenton Hassel-type player to fill-in the depth.

I think it is a good trade for all 3 teams... if it happened.... Which I dont think it will - but, it is NOT a "homer" trade.

bcortell · Post #9 » by **bcortell** » Thu Jan 1, 2009 9:37 pm

LOL Heath- who would have known- people don't like your trades for the other teams.

Mr2400 · Post #10 » by **Mr2400** » Fri Jan 2, 2009 12:12 am

heathmalc wrote:As for Dallas. They "appear" to get weaker on the wings... but in reality they get stronger. By moving Diop's contract (A defensive big..with little offense), and Adding Kaman as their Center...they suddenly have someone besides Dirk who can post-up. Dirk is able to play the perimeter more, or roam. JJ berrea has done very well there and is a big part of what they are doing. Jason Terry is their other major threat. But what makes this trade attractive to Dallas, is that they get rid of long-term contracts in Diop and Howard, and it allows them to have some flexibility in the summer to sign another young piece in-addition to their draft picks. As for Gerald Green... He is a bust that has played like crap in all-three stops of his short career. He would probably be bought-out by the Cavs.

you never explained how dallas gets stronger at the wings. they lose all 3 of their small forwards in that trade and are left with basically nobody at all only wally) to play small forward. where is the strength in that? there is none.

heathmalc · Post #11 » by **heathmalc** » Fri Jan 2, 2009 1:49 am

No, on the wings it is a lateral move... DIRK is able to be more of a wing-threat... Wally, Jason Terry

Anyway, it isnt as if they are any good on the wings now.

However, this improves their paint scoring.

Mr2400 · Post #12 » by **Mr2400** » Fri Jan 2, 2009 4:31 am

you said yourself:

"As for Dallas. They "appear" to get weaker on the wings... but in reality they get stronger"

You didn't call ti a lateral move. Dirk is not a wing threat. he is strictly a PF/C. He can't guard small forwards, but a handful of small forwards can guard him. his biggest threat as a player comes from the fact that he forces bigger, slower players to come and guard him. Matching him with wing players actually plays against Dallas.

Terry is 6'2. yes, 6'2. Please don't suggest he is a wing. He is a SG in a PG's body. He can't guard any SG's or SF's in this league, and he gives 5 or 6 inches to nearly all of them. Wally would be the only SF on that roster besides George. Cuban is a little odd, but he isn't stupid enough to rid his team of every single small forward on the roster other than wally and George.

So my next point, on what planet is switching Green, Stackhouse, and Howard for Wally and George a lateral move? seriously, that is absolutely absurd.

Like you said, their wings aren't really great right now or anything. So why would they make a trade if it isn't going to fill in that gap?