Early 90s Small Forwards

rumdiary · Post #1 » by **rumdiary** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 3:03 pm

For me personally, the early 90s was the Golden Era of the NBA. But one thing I considered today was that, comparitively, there really weren't that many great Small Forwards around (other than Scottie Pippen) compared to nowadays.

Mostly, of the guys I list below, the early 90s guys were primarily scorers too, they didn't have an all round game.

early 90s (pre Grant Hill):
Scottie Pippen
Danny Manning
Detlef Shrempf
Chris Mullin
Glen Rice

and...
Cedric Ceballos (lol)?
Reggie Lewis
Drazen Petrovic
Jamal Mashburn
Cliff Robinson
edit: forgot Sean Eliot

2009:
Lebron James
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Tracey McGrady
Danny Granger
Ron Artest

and to a lesser extent:
Caron Butler
Gerald Wallace
Rudy Gay
Andrei Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Durant

... is there a bunch of guys I'm forgetting?

Dagameplaya PnG · Post #2 » by **Dagameplaya PnG** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 3:18 pm

Mitch Richmond was a solid SF on the Kings for many years

Veez · Post #3 » by **Veez** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 3:37 pm

that is indeed interesting..I know there weren't too many SG's or SF's that could hang with jordan back in the 90's..

clyde drexler
mitch richmond
reggie miller
dominique wilkins
gary payton (defensive purpose)

any others? jeff hornacek? haha jk

it kinda puts things in perspective though..when thinkin about Jordan's dominance and the lack of competition at his position, doesn't it?!? which brings up another question....to those that think jordan would have put up those godly numbers in todays game..with zones, better defensive schemes geared to stop a single player and by far superior athletes..just off the top of my head..guards of today

kobe
manu
wade
roy
vince
joe johnson
pierce
ray allen
JRich

im sure i left some out..but yall get the point..im not even close to taking anything away from jordan, im just talkin purely about competition..just so all the fan boys dont run in here screaming

rumdiary · Post #4 » by **rumdiary** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 4:03 pm

Derick22333 - I'd always count Mitch as a Shooting Guard.

Veez - Pretty sure Dominique Wilkins was a Power Forward and Payton more of a PG. I think the Shooting Guard position was quite strong back in that era, there were loads of guys. You forgot John Starks, Joe Dumars, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Harper, Mark Price... maybe even Jim Jackson on top of Drexler, Richmond, Reggie.

I think nowadays it's the Center position which struggles:
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
... then who?

Transistor · Post #5 » by **Transistor** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 4:20 pm

Sean Elliot? wasn't he SF?

tyguy · Post #6 » by **tyguy** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 4:36 pm

Derick22333 wrote:Mitch Richmond was a solid SF on the Kings for many years

Mitch was a shooting guard. Lionell simmons was the kings small forward, as well as walt williams. Contrary to popular belief, the game has more talent than it ever has. With the global appeal, and kids training younger and younger, there is more talent than the league has ever had.

ropjhk · Post #7 » by **ropjhk** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 8:44 pm

Keep in mind that the positions were defined a little differently back then. For example, Dominique Wilkins was considered a PF back then, but would likely be playing only SF in today's game. Many players who play PF in today's game would be made to play C back in the early 90's.

I credit KG and Tim Duncan for redefining the forward positions. KG used to play SF and Duncan would have been playing C if he didn't play alongside David Robinson. If those two guys came to the NBA 10 years earlier they may have been playing C in the way similiar players like Hakeem did.

And if you think about it, KG and Duncan really shook up the landscape with Dirk, Rasheed, and a whole bunch of athletic 6-10 and taller players playing forward instead of center. If half of those KG wannabes instead focused on post play, weight gain and fundamentals instead of their dribbling skill and outside shooting, we'd probably never have seen the dearth of centers that plagued the NBA during the first part of this decade.

Post #8 » by **Atlanta Hawk Fan** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 8:55 pm

Nique was a small forward - NOT A POWER FORWARD. For most of his career with the Hawks, Kevin Willis was Atlanta's powerforward and Jon Koncak (and others) played center.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 8:59 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:Nique was a small forward - NEVER A POWER FORWARD. For most of his career with the Hawks, Kevin Willis was Atlanta's powerforward and Jon Koncak (and others) played center.

I was just coming to post this.

Also Richmond was a SG as others have said.

Drazen was a SG as well, Gary Payton was a PG, one of the all time greats.

You're also failing to mention how much more physical the game was and the fact most of these guys were much better defenders then todays crop of players, overall.

vincecarter4pres · Post #10 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:10 pm

Others, even though they might not have been elite, they were definitely at least on the level of the likes of Gerald Wallace:
Stacey Augmon
Charles Smith
Derrick Mckey
Xavier Daniel
Nick Anderson(really more of a 2 guard)
Ron Harper(really more of a 2 guard)

I am forgetting a few, but these guys should be mentioned.

mhd · Post #11 » by **mhd** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:17 pm

Derrick McKey was very underrated.

Storm Surge · Post #12 » by **Storm Surge** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:21 pm

Jimmie Jackson should be in the discussion.

vincecarter4pres · Post #13 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:27 pm

Storm Surge wrote:Jimmie Jackson should be in the discussion.

No he shouldn't, he was a late mid 90's to early 2000's guy.
He was drafted I believe before the 92-93 season and had a contract dispute and held out to, I want to say nid 93-94.
He was good from the get go, but wasn't truly relevant to a winning team till around the 96-97.

ropjhk · Post #14 » by **ropjhk** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:32 pm

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:Nique was a small forward - NOT A POWER FORWARD. For most of his career with the Hawks, Kevin Willis was Atlanta's powerforward and Jon Koncak (and others) played center.

You're right, and I kind of realized my mistake as soon as I posted, and I should have clarified what I meant. Nique matched up and played Small Forward for the most part, but some people saw enough aspects in his game that they would call him a power forward. Essentially the point that I wanted to make is that he wasn't considered a pure small forward in the same way that someone like Grant Hill or Caron Butler has been considered as a small forward.

Nique probably wasn't a good example for my overall point about how the position has changed. But the main point I was making that players who were once considered to be power forwards would almost never play that position in todays game without having the term 'small ball' be thrown around.

Death Knight · Post #15 » by **Death Knight** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:35 pm

Michael Jordon would go to the foul line 16 times in today's game.

Post #16 » by **TASTIC** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 9:43 pm

Billy Owens
Lionel Simmons
Tom Chambers played some SF and PF
Chuck Person
Kendall Gill played some SF

Post #17 » by **Atlanta Hawk Fan** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 10:05 pm

ropjhk wrote:
Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:Nique was a small forward - NOT A POWER FORWARD. For most of his career with the Hawks, Kevin Willis was Atlanta's powerforward and Jon Koncak (and others) played center.

You're right, and I kind of realized my mistake as soon as I posted, and I should have clarified what I meant. Nique matched up and played Small Forward for the most part, but some people saw enough aspects in his game that they would call him a power forward. Essentially the point that I wanted to make is that he wasn't considered a pure small forward in the same way that someone like Grant Hill or Caron Butler has been considered as a small forward.

Nique probably wasn't a good example for my overall point about how the position has changed. But the main point I was making that players who were once considered to be power forwards would almost never play that position in todays game without having the term 'small ball' be thrown around.

I think Nique is the wrong guy for this argument. He was a pure small forward. He and Larry could rebound a heck of a lot better than a lot of small forwards today but neither guy was considered a tweener in his day.

rumdiary · Post #18 » by **rumdiary** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 10:24 pm

Death Knight wrote:Michael Jordon would go to the foul line 16 times in today's game.

I agree but, was that related to anything we're talking about? lol

ChrisTheFuturePaul · Post #19 » by **ChrisTheFuturePaul** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:26 am

Grant Hill's first couple years could be in this discussion

James Worthy was still productive until 1993

1996-1997 may be a little late but Glen Rice's prime year was so damn impressive IMO, 26pts, 47% fg, 47% 3pt, 4rebs, 2ast, 1stl. Guy was lights out, scored like 20 points in the 3rd quarter of the All-Star game

EDIT: removed Mullin and Schrempf as they were listed.

Manocad · Post #20 » by **Manocad** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:34 am

Atlanta Hawk Fan wrote:
ropjhk wrote:
You're right, and I kind of realized my mistake as soon as I posted, and I should have clarified what I meant. Nique matched up and played Small Forward for the most part, but some people saw enough aspects in his game that they would call him a power forward. Essentially the point that I wanted to make is that he wasn't considered a pure small forward in the same way that someone like Grant Hill or Caron Butler has been considered as a small forward.

Nique probably wasn't a good example for my overall point about how the position has changed. But the main point I was making that players who were once considered to be power forwards would almost never play that position in todays game without having the term 'small ball' be thrown around.

I think Nique is the wrong guy for this argument. He was a pure small forward. He and Larry could rebound a heck of a lot better than a lot of small forwards today but neither guy was considered a tweener in his day.

Absolutely.
'Nique was a slasher and a shooter. There was nothing whatsoever about his game that was power forward.