Tony's Offensive Problems and Why it's Doc's Fault

[Golabki]

One major problem with Tony Allen is his lack of health, but I'd like to talk about another issue, his turnovers and general offensive futility.

People have complained a lot about Tony Allen his year and I take exception. Tony is an excellent defender, and he is good at creating contact in the lane and at the rim. He certainly has weaknesses (marginal shot and handle, not ideal length for a SF), but given that he is a reserve that will average only about 15 minutes a game in the playoffs I think that those weakness are acceptable.

What is not acceptable is that Tony Allen is being asked to be a playmaker a large percentage of the time he is in the game. As a playmaker Tony Allen is TERRIBLE. If you asked Bruce Bowen, or James Posey to create baskets they would look terrible as well. All role players have holes in their game, but good coaches protect their players by not asking too much of them.

This team basically has four guys who can reasonably be called playmakers: Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen, and Rondo. None are truly dominant (like LeBron of Kobe), so we really need 2 of them on the floor to have a functional offense. I looked at the top-10 5-man-units (by minutes) that Tony Allen plays with. 81% of the time Tony is on the floor with 1 or none of the 4 creators. 19% of the time he is in with 2 or 3 of the creators. That means 81% of the time Tony Allen is on the floor he is being asked to do things that he simple cannot do well. This is caused by Doc's continued use of 1st-2nd-line style substitution patterns. In my opinion a major reason Tony screws up the offense so much is because he is on the floor without the support he needs. There is no reason Doc can't keep 2 or the 4 playmakers on the floor at any given time. I know this isn't the first time it has been mentioned, but I think it bares repeating given the recent trade talk.

Do you agree that a healthy Tony is a good role player for this team if used correctly?
Will Doc use cut down the offensive expectations for Tony in the playoffs?
If you don't think Tony can work, who could be reasonably get?

[avi623]

You have a point, but here is the problem: Tony cannot shoot. If he does not have the ball in his hands to try to penetrate, he is completely useless on offense. The two players you cited, Posey and Bowen, carved themselves a niche by being able to consistently knock down open threes. It does not matter that they do not have the ball in their hands, because they knock down jumpers when it swings to them. In a similar situation, if the ball swings to Tony he will not shoot or he will miss. The Celtics would be forced to play 4 on 5 in such a situation.

Where you may have a point is if they tried to use Tony more as a Ruben Patterson or Desmond Mason-type offensive player. Those guys fill the lane, and get buckets around the rim by finding creases and holes in the defense. From what I remember, this is how he was used at OK State. He is not as strong or big as those two players, though, so he may not be as effective doing it as they are.

Part of the reason that TA has to do so much ballhandling, though, is that Eddie House is not a good ball handler either. And he is much smaller and weaker, so he can be pressured more easily. We do not have a reliable, experienced, backup ballhandler (sorry, Gabe). There is really no hard and fast solution.

[Scalamental]

It's tough finding the perfect situation for Tony because the things he's really good at -scoring, the drive and dish, defending...- need to be gotten through things Tony doesn't do well all the time, like dribbling.

I don't think it's Doc's fault. I think we're a guard heavy team whose two best guards happen to be franchise players. Tony's absolute best play came when he had to be the man when Pierce went down in the Al jefferson era. I think if Tony went to a team like OK city, he would absolutely tear ish up cuz he'd be the man with a ball.

[sunshinekids99]

While I do agree with you that Tony needs help out there to get his offense going. I think he still has issues is forcing his game. He rarely lets the game come to him and that I can't blame Doc for.

As for Tony's role on this team, I think he better come back soon and ready to play at a high level. Also can we get off the fact that Tony Allen is a excellent defender? He's quite frankly not that guy. There are times when he shows great defense, but overall he's not much more than an average NBA defender.

[floyd]

I think Tony got a shot at being the team's sixth man at the start of the season, something his skill set is suited for and something we need. Be the focus of the offense and score on those second line guys, allowing the big 3 to get their rest and play more minutes as a unit.

I don't think Tony's role or skills are the problem (although his lost ups has hurt him). I it's his lack of consistency and focus. The same problem he's had his whole time here.

I've always rooted for the kid, but being "young" only flies for so long as an excuse. I'd like to see Billy get those mins. I don't see this kid losing his confidence like Tony does.

[Jammer]

Doc hasn't completely gone to First Team/Second Team.

If it's not a blowout, like the 4th quarter against Phoenix was,

Paul Pierce or Ray Allen is in at small forward.
Any time the game is up in the air, one of those two players have been on the court.

In blowouts, Tony ended up at SF with Pruitt and House in the backcourt.

Tony's problem is compounded by being paired with Davis and Powe.

Davis is trying to spread the floor as a mid-range shooter,
but his field goal percent is laughable for a front court player.

Powe has a low post game, but often impedes Tony's driving to the hoop.

The smarter players know to play Tony for the drive or kick,
and not the shot.

It's not Doc's fault. Tony has some limitations.
He could lose minutes to Marbury if Steph ends up here.
Not only Tony, but Eddie House could lose minutes to Steph as well.
Eddie's 3-10 shooting, second 3-10 game he's had recently,
doesn't sit well with me, but Eddie's the only shooter on the bench right now.

After Davis, I find Pruitt the most disappointing player (his shooting %),
but Pruitt, when paired with House,
ends up defending SG's while House covers the PG,
and yet House doesn't allow Pruitt to run the offense,
maybe 1 out of every 4 trips.

[chakdaddy]

Remember the brief Bruce Bowen at PG experiment that Pitino tried???

[Dave_From_NB]

I don't think it's unreasonable for Doc to expect a 2 guard to handle the ball and be a playmaker.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the rotation when TA comes back. Pruitt is proving to be an immensely better ball handler than House or TA, and he seems to be playing with relatively few mistakes. When you add in that Pruitt is becoming increasingly more aggressive going to the basket, I can't help but think that House or TA are going to start sitting some minutes to keep Pruitt on the floor. I'm just not sure yet which of the two is going to lose the minutes.

It's also quite interesting to see the offensive efficiency of Walker in his limited minutes. I'm thinking at this point that he's staying with the team, at least until Ainge rents some vets. Could be Walker takes some TA minutes soon as well.

Somewhere I blinked, and omg Tony Allen just turned 27 years old. He should be in the prime of his athletic career, not a kid who still has upside and we're trying to figure out what to do with him. Frankly, he's been pretty disappointing to me as what should be a pretty finely honed product at this point.

[humblebum]

Like most role players, Tony Allen does have serious flaws in his game. But unlike many role players Tony Allen does have dominant characteristics on both the offensive and defensive ends. If Tony played more of his minutes with the starters he'd have to do less and would thus look better while on the court, see Scalabrine. This is the reality for bench guys in the NBA, they rely on better players to cover their weaknesses while highlighting their strengths. The problem is that House, Powe, Davis truly fail in complementing Tony and Doc tends to use Tony primarily with those guys. So basically the situation with Tony is a question of how he fits into the roster and seemingly he's not an excellent fit at this point.

So what does the team do with Tony? Either they trade him or they bring in other bench players who help Tony by complementing his game. For instance if the team somehow acquired Marbury and Joe Smith (highly unlikely without TA being traded but just for sake of discussion) Tony would have more room to operate because of the spacing that Smith and Marbury create with their range on the jumpshot, and Marbury could handle most of the playmaking responsiblity allowing TA to focus on quick 1-2 dribble drives and offensive rebounding, where he's more effective.

One way or the other though I believe that TA will get minutes for the Celtics as long as he's on the roster, and he will most likely not lose minutes to Gabe at this point.

[Golabki]

Tony is best when on the floor with... House + Ray/Pierce + KG + Powe/Perk/Davis

That type of lineup you should have enough offensive weapons (Ray/Pierce + KG) to allow Tony to play off-ball, and enough shooters (Ray/Pierce + House) to keep decent floor spacing.

There is no real reason that Doc couldn't protect Tony by using that type of lineup, but he rarely does because KG is usually off the court.

This might be resolved during the playoffs when the big three are getting more minutes in general... it's hard to tell since Tony pretty much didn't play in last years playoffs.

[sully00]

I have always been a big fan of Tony but his problems are his alone and not Doc's to be honest if it wasn't for Doc, who has always been Tony's biggest supporter, he probably wouldn't be in the league. Much like the rest of the bench of this team Tony is 4-5 inches too small for his game. Somehow his ball handling is getting worse not better and the jumper is coming slower than it does for some centers.

He has NBA athleticism and he is certainly an NBA defender but I have seen more court awareness and consistency from Gabe Pruitt and Bill Walker since Tony has been out than we have seen in 4 years from Tony Allen, this is a guy who started as a rookie on a playoff team. I love him but I am giving up the dream that he is ever going to be anything more than what he is.

[Red2]

if he could shoot he'd be a stud because he already can drive. If rondo can start hitting 3's then why not tony allen? Maybe Ray Allen should become the shot doctor for the team and hold shooting drills after practice. There are a number of guys that would benefit from that

[klemen4]

The thing is Tony can do next:
-Play good D on pg/sg...sf is problem regarding height
-Can penetrate, BUT has problems finishing around the rim

On the other hand Im tired of:
-his stupid turnovers...losing ball, over dribbling, defensive fouls
-his inability to finish close to basket, because he is forcing getting a foul
-taking circus shots

One good game out of 10 just aint enough.

To conclude, there are a lot better better bench players than Tony(for same money) who also play defense BUT also have a good shot.

[humblebum]

I'm really not sure this is all on Tony, though most of the responsibility lies in his hands. Frankly, I think he has been a solid, sometimes spectacular, sometimes reckless defensive player all season when healthy. Offensively he gets in trouble being overaggressive and because he lacks range on his shot. However, is Tony not placed in many situations where he's being asked to do more than he's capable? I mean he has to defend the best perimeter player AND handle the ball full court (at times) AND score... That's a pretty ridiculous load for a guy who CLEARLY has holes in his offensive game.

Like ANY role player, Tony relies on other guys to cover his weaknesses. Consistently put Tony into a lineup with a competent PG ballhandler who can shoot (a la Marbury) and overdribbling and spacing issues become less troublesome. Put an adequate shot blocker behind him and his aggressive defense on the perimeter becomes an even greater asset. I just don't buy this theory that it's all TA's fault, nor is it all Doc's fault. This is partly a matter of TA playing more consistent ball, but it's also partly a matter of putting the right pieces around TA that allow him to be successful.

[armageddon]

removing any homerism, Tony brings nothing to the team. Removing any need to showcase for trades, he should be the last player off the bench.