Westbrook's future

[TheOGJabroni]

After reading a lot of people's opinions of RW, it seems there is a pretty split opinion about his position in the NBA. Let's say OKC is picking number 2 this year and select Ricky Rubio because he is the clear cut second best player in the draft. Does this make Russ expendable? Does he slide over to the SG position? If so, will that backcourt be successful? (Lack of jumpshooting, on the smaller side) Maybe he is better suited to bring off the bench a la Manu Ginobli? What are your thoughts?

[wizkid27]

Good idea for a poll man. I'm REALLY torn on this and think that all 3 of those options are pretty legitimate ones to consider.

[TheOGJabroni]

Good idea for a poll man. I'm REALLY torn on this and think that all 3 of those options are pretty legitimate ones to consider.

I'm a C's fan and I know that Paul Pierce wasn't utilized properly until he was moved to the SF position. I'm a firm believe you need to start a a player at his natural position (see Kevin Durant as well). Having said that, Westbrook is raw but his size and ability to defend PG's makes me think he should be the starting PG on any team and have a player like a James Harden that can also create for others at the 2.

I just don't see him as a great starting shooting guard. If they were to draft Ricky Rubio, I don't know how Russ would feel about it but I think once Rubio was ready to start, Russ would benefit the team more being a combo guard off the bench. But as the team stands right now, he is best as a PG IMO.

[Clangus]

Personally I think he showed a great enough improvement over the year to suggest he will be a good starting PG.

[wiff]

My biggest concern with Westbrook at the point are the TO's. If he can get a handle on those then he will be fine.

You can't be a great team with your PG leading the league in TO's.

For example the Kings went from a fun team to watch to one of the best in the league when they traded J-Will for Bibby.

A young J-Will was flashy and fun but Bibby controlled the ball and didn't give away possessions.

TO's are the reason why Wade is a SG and not PG. He could play PG but he turns the ball over way too much.

The Thunder really need a pg who can hang on to the ball. Maybe that's Westbrook, maybe it's someone else with Westbrook at the SG. But if Westbrook does get moved to SG he will need to find a shot.

[sonic-ben]

remember GP..... Westbrook is 3 years younger and it took GP till His third year to perform

He almosted got traded to Houston

[mcmokken]

Westbrook is raw but his size and ability to defend PG's makes me think he should be the starting PG on any team and have a player like a James Harden that can also create for others at the 2.

I agree that Harden could complement Westbrook really well at the 2 which is partly why I hope that we draft him if we miss out on Griffin and Rubio.

Though if Rubio is available, we'd definitely have to take him, and I think Presti would agree. In this case I would think that Westbrook would be better suited coming off the bench or used to trade for a SG to better pair with Rubio.

[geeman]

Atlanta hawk fan... If you guys did get the second overall pick this year you could have anyone on our roster in trade for him. I live his game and we need a slashing pg to combo with jj

[wizkid27]

I want JJ. If we got him for our pick, I would be SOOO happy. Favorite player on my favorite team.

We'll see what happens though!

[slick_watts]

it's tough to say what westbrook's future will be because he is so young. if he were a four year college player with sub 2.0 ASST/TO then i would say his future is probably not as a starting PG. as it stands, he has not been playing PG for a long time and really did show some nice flashes of ability at the position. i think there are enough positive things he can bring to the PG position (defense, rebounding, FT shooting) to justify a decent investment into his delevopment there.

he just really has to let the game slow down and get himself under control. i think cutting out the wild shots would at least push his FG% into respectable range for a G maybe 43% or so for next season and probably cut down on his turnovers as well since most of them come from driving into traffic too much traffic.

if i were betting i'd say his future is at PG. i think he already does too many good things to be relegated to the bench as a combo guard. i don't think he'll be a starting SG in the nba because of his size.

right now the best thing for westbrook would be to acquire a SG that can handle the ball and run the offense a bit to start with him. a guy like kirk hinrich or delonte west, for example. that would really help his development along imo.

[wizkid27]

Not saying I completely agree, but here's one writer's take on Westbrook at point. He makes some good points, but nothing ground-breaking...

http://newsok.com/nba-new-age-for-point ... le/3366149

[slick_watts]

the comparisons the guy makes are ridiculous. westbrook shot sub-.400 from the field and the rest of the guys mentioned all shot over 45% their rookie years except chris paul and isiah thomas, who were at 43%.

westbrook might end up ok but he was pretty horrible a lot of the time with his decisions and pg play, he's got more work to do than any of players that writer compared him to.

[wizkid27]

In December and January he shot in the mid 40's (43 and 46% respectively). That was when the team was pretty healthy and doing well. I don't think it's a ridiculous leap in logic to think that he could play like he did in his "good months" for the course of the entire season next year. Not saying he'll be like Paul, Thomas, whoever... but he'll be special in his own right, and I think that in the right system/team he can definitely be a successful point guard.

[Clangus]

In December and January he shot in the mid 40's (43 and 46% respectively). That was when the team was pretty healthy and doing well. I don't think it's a ridiculous leap in logic to think that he could play like he did in his "good months" for the course of the entire season next year. Not saying he'll be like Paul, Thomas, whoever... but he'll be special in his own right, and I think that in the right system/team he can definitely be a successful point guard.

100% agree. The good thing about the Thunder is that teh 2 best players on teh team are GYM rats (KD and Green) this sets teh tone for the rest of the squad. Westbrook will work his ass off in the off season just like those 2 do. I expect his % to go up next season no doubt. Also he is the first Russell Westbrook, I dont want him to be Chris Paul, Isiah thomas. He has unique set of skills, that if Brooks can utilise he can be very special (I think Second option on the team kind of special)

[Blazinaway]

If you guys draft Rubio Portland might be interested in a Rudy F for Westbrook swap, whatever filler necessary to make it work.

[wiff]

If you guys draft Rubio Portland might be interested in a Rudy F for Westbrook swap, whatever filler necessary to make it work.

Westbrook is not going to Portland, and if he did it would be for Roy not Rudy.

Not sure if you looked at Westbrook's numbers for his rookie year but they compared to Roy's rookie season very well. Plus Westbrook is two years younger than Roy was during his rookie season.

I know what you are thinking "yeah right like Portland is going to trade Westbrook for Roy, keep dreamin"

Well we are thinking the same thing about Rudy for Westbrook.

[slick_watts]

.Not sure if you looked at Westbrook's numbers for his rookie year but they compared to Roy's rookie season very well. Plus Westbrook is two years younger than Roy was during his rookie season.

i wouldn't trade westbrook for fernandez but i want to comment on this because westbrook's season was nowhere close to what roy did in his rookie year. the only thing westbrook did as well as roy was steal the basketball. roy was a vastly more efficient scorer in every capacity, had a 2:1 ASS/TO ratio despite being a SG, and had an 18.0 PER compared to westbrook's 15.2 PER.

roy had a tremendous rookie year, one of the most productive in recent memory. westbrook's rookie season doesn't compare to his at all..

westbrook could be a good player but i think some of you are over-valuing his production quite a bit.

[wiff]

Well the way I look at it is like this.

Roy played 35.4 minutes a game his rookie year
Westbrook 32.5 minutes a game his rookie year

Roy 16.8pts
WB 15.3pts

Roy 4.4 rebs
WB 4.9 rebs

Roy 4 dimes
WB 5.3dimes

Roy 1.2thefts
WB 1.3thefts

Roy 0.2blks
WB 0.2blks

Roy 2.04 TO
WB 3.34TO

Roy
.456 FG%
.377 3pt%
.838 FT%

WB
.398 FG%
.271 3PT%
.815 FT%

Roy's age his rookie year 23
WB's age his rookie year 21

the only thing westbrook did as well as roy was steal the basketball.

You right Slick that is the only thing Westbrook did AS WELL as Roy.

But you forgot to mention he was better than Roy in rebounding and handing out dimes. That is a simple fact that you can find at NBA.com.

Now obviously Westbrook still has flaws in his game. He turned the ball over more compared to Roy. But Westbrook played mostly at PG while Roy played mostly at SG.

Westbrook is learning the toughest position of the highest level. And it showed last year with his turnovers.

Roy also has a very large edge in FG% and 3pt%

But one thing Westbrook has going for him is the fact he is two years younger than Roy was during his rookie season.

Now call me crazy but looking at Westbrooks improvements over the last three seasons, he should be able to bring up his FG% and 3pt% a fair amount with some practice and coaching.

As Freshman at UCLA Westbrook averaged 3.4pts, 0.8rebs, 0.7dimes, 0.4stls

Considering his game has made a big of leap as anyone in the league in the last three years I'm not going to doubt the kid is going to come back even better next year.

So for some reason you don't think Westbrooks rookie season compared to Roy's very well.

I guess maybe you didn't look at the numbers considering you said the only thing he did as well was steal the ball, and obviously he out rebounded Roy and threw out more dimes in less minutes.

To me Westbrook had a season that compares very well to Roy's. Is it identical? Nope, but it is in the same ball park.

Plus next year if he brings up his FG% and hangs onto the rock a little better than he will be able to increase his pts and his Ass to TO ratio. Which are the two areas he needs work on. But I think that is completely realistic and he will still be a year younger than Roy was his rookie season.

I guess you might argue that Westbrook won't ever find his shot. But how many guys as athletic and young as Westbrook that spend hours in the gym don't improve on something they work on?

[slick_watts]

Well the way I look at it is like this.

the problem with the stats you're comparing here is that some of them hold a lot more value than others, especially at the guard positions. westbrook's slight advantage in rebounding isn't really meaningful in this comparison, for example.

westbrook had more assists than roy, but the reasoning for this disparity is the same you use to excuse westbrook's turnovers: he played PG. westbrook's rookie ASS:TO ratio was 1.60. let's get an idea for how bad this is compared to other rookie point guards in the recent past.

derek rose: 2.52
mike conley: 2.47
d.j. augustin: 2.05
mario chalmers: 2.45
rodney stuckey: 2.00
rajon rondo: 2.11
deron williams: 2.5
chris paul: 3.39

as a matter of fact, the only rookie point guard who played more than 800 minutes their rookie year that i can find that had a worse ratio is randy foye, and i hesitate including him since mike james handled pg duties regularly for that team.

the point here is that russell westbrook, although he "gave out more dimes" than brandon roy, was downright horrible handling the ball for okc this year. compared to other rookie point guards above, he was significantly worse at the point guard's primary function(s) on the court: take care of the ball and facilitate offense.

conversely, brandon roy's rookie ASS:TO ratio of 2.00 puts him at a little below average for the above point guards. i'm not going to crunch the numbers, but 2.00 for a rookie shooting guard is extraordinary, and probably among the recent best for a rookie at the position. brandon roy took care of the ball as a rookie and facilitated some offense even though it generally isn't really a prime responsibility of his position. a lot of good rookie shooting guards struggle to hit 1:1 (see, o.j. mayo).

this isn't even getting into scoring efficiency; of all rookies who played at least 800 minutes this year, only roko ukic and ryan anderson shot worse from the field than russell westbrook. again, conversely, brandon roy placed 6th among rookies in 06/07 behind mostly big men like millsap and aldrige.

i don't want to give the impression i don't like westbrook, i think he could be a good player and he certainly could improve a lot on his deficiences on the court. but let's not kid ourselves about the magnitude of the deficiences. westbrook was an extremely inefficient scorer, even for his position, and a bad facilitator as well, even compared to other recent rookie point guards. brandon roy as a rookie immediately transcended his position (2:1 turnover ratio, reasonably high FG% for rookie SG) and had a very good, balanced year. there really is no comparison.

[wiff]

Well the way I look at it is like this.

the problem with the stats you're comparing here is that some of them hold a lot more value than others, especially at the guard positions. westbrook's slight advantage in rebounding isn't really meaningful in this comparison, for example.

westbrook had more assists than roy, but the reasoning for this disparity is the same you use to excuse westbrook's turnovers: he played PG. westbrook's rookie ASS:TO ratio was 1.60. let's get an idea for how bad this is compared to other rookie point guards in the recent past.

derek rose: 2.52
mike conley: 2.47
d.j. augustin: 2.05
mario chalmers: 2.45
rodney stuckey: 2.00
rajon rondo: 2.11
deron williams: 2.5
chris paul: 3.39

as a matter of fact, the only rookie point guard who played more than 800 minutes their rookie year that i can find that had a worse ratio is randy foye, and i hesitate including him since mike james handled pg duties regularly for that team.

the point here is that russell westbrook, although he "gave out more dimes" than brandon roy, was downright horrible handling the ball for okc this year. compared to other rookie point guards above, he was significantly worse at the point guard's primary function(s) on the court: take care of the ball and facilitate offense.

conversely, brandon roy's rookie ASS:TO ratio of 2.00 puts him at a little below average for the above point guards. i'm not going to crunch the numbers, but 2.00 for a rookie shooting guard is extraordinary, and probably among the recent best for a rookie at the position. brandon roy took care of the ball as a rookie and facilitated some offense even though it generally isn't really a prime responsibility of his position. a lot of good rookie shooting guards struggle to hit 1:1 (see, o.j. mayo).

this isn't even getting into scoring efficiency; of all rookies who played at least 800 minutes this year, only roko ukic and ryan anderson shot worse from the field than russell westbrook. again, conversely, brandon roy placed 6th among rookies in 06/07 behind mostly big men like millsap and aldrige.

i don't want to give the impression i don't like westbrook, i think he could be a good player and he certainly could improve a lot on his deficiences on the court. but let's not kid ourselves about the magnitude of the deficiences. westbrook was an extremely inefficient scorer, even for his position, and a bad facilitator as well, even compared to other recent rookie point guards. brandon roy as a rookie immediately transcended his position (2:1 turnover ratio, reasonably high FG% for rookie SG) and had a very good, balanced year. there really is no comparison.

Ah man I knew you were going to try to go stat geek on me Slick.

And honestly you can go stat geek all you want, but I find it interesting that you claim the only thing Westbrook did as well as Roy was steal the ball. Mean while he also rebounded better and handed out more assists.

Of course you just gloss over the fact that he is a better rebounder like it doesn't contribute to the game. As Charles Barkley once said, "You can't score unless you have the ball".

So until you acknowledge the simple fact that Westbrook is a better rebounder I don't think this conversation needs to go on much farther.