Dionte Christmas Vs Wayne Ellington

Post #1 » by **BigSlam** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:41 pm

Over the last little while there has been a lot of talk about Ellington being a potential lottery selection but Christmas falling to the middle of the 2nd round.

What is the difference between these two?

If anything, I would have thought that Christmas has more dimensions to his game and would be the more attractive selection?

I'm not saying that Christmas should be a lottery pick. I'm saying that Ellington shouldn't be either.

Thoughts?

skiz2 · Post #2 » by **skiz2** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:15 pm

I haven't seen much of Christmas at all. But I can attest to the fact taht Ellington's game has evolved lightyears since his freshman year and even last season. He has figured out he has the athleticism to beat his man off the dribble and has a lethal pull-up jumper. When his shot isn't falling, he isn't a liability anymore because he plays solid defense, rebounds well, and also passes well. He helps his team out more than just being a spot up shooter. I wouldn't peg him into the lottery, but he is a solid pick from 15-20. I compare him to Forte in terms of talent. I think Forte would be in the NBA right now as a solid player if his head was on straight. I see Wayne in the NBA having the same impact as Courtney Lee and eventually being a solid 14 ppg role player.

Sorry I can't comment more on Christmas. I hope that helps with Ellington though.

Cammo101 · Post #3 » by **Cammo101** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Ellington is better at everything.

vincecarter4pres · Post #4 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:46 pm

I find it absurd that people are saying things about Ellington that they are.

What does he do good besides spot up shooting?!!!

One good tourney run and all of a sudden one of the most flawed guards in the entire draft is suddenly a superstar?!

Stop the madness!

Ellington basically does nothing better then Christmas, he just might be able to accept his role better in the NBA as Christmas has always been a 1st option and it maybe hard to break that mindset even though he will be a bench player and possibly a very good rotation player eventually.

Post #5 » by **BigSlam** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:47 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:One good tourney run and all of a sudden one of the most flawed guards in the entire draft is suddenly a superstar?!

This is the only thing I can put it down to as well??

vincecarter4pres · Post #6 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:50 pm

Ellington screams Scotty Thurman to me.

Post #7 » by **Ruzious** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:10 pm

Ellington kinda reminds me of Trajan Langdon - a little taller and a little more athletic - but similar plusses and minuses. In Langdon's senior year, he showed that he improved on skills other than jump-shooting, but these were skills that likely wouldn't translate to the NBA. Ellington belongs in the NBA, but I'd wager a month's pay that he's not a lotto pick. I'd merrily take him over Christmas. Granted, I only saw Christmas play 1 game, but sometimes that's enough. It seems that Temple has had a few guards over the years that are similar to him that didn't make it in the NBA.

Post #8 » by **Ruzious** » Fri May 15, 2009 9:14 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I find it absurd that people are saying things about Ellington that they are.

What does he do good besides spot up shooting?!!!

One good tourney run and all of a sudden one of the most flawed guards in the entire draft is suddenly a superstar?!

Stop the madness!

Ellington basically does nothing better then Christmas, he just might be able to accept his role better in the NBA as Christmas has always been a 1st option and it maybe hard to break that mindset even though he will be a bench player and possibly a very good rotation player eventually.

I respect your opinion, but it's irritating that you go on a rant like that after skiz gave a thoughtful response that already answered the questions you asked.

Eh, on second thought, skiz is still listed as a rookie. We're supposed to abuse him.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri May 15, 2009 10:11 pm

Ruzious wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I find it absurd that people are saying things about Ellington that they are.

What does he do good besides spot up shooting?!!!

One good tourney run and all of a sudden one of the most flawed guards in the entire draft is suddenly a superstar?!

Stop the madness!

Ellington basically does nothing better then Christmas, he just might be able to accept his role better in the NBA as Christmas has always been a 1st option and it maybe hard to break that mindset even though he will be a bench player and possibly a very good rotation player eventually.

I respect your opinion, but it's irritating that you go on a rant like that after skiz gave a thoughtful response that already answered the questions you asked.

Eh, on second thought, skiz is still listed as a rookie. We're supposed to abuse him.

Not for nothing but I didn't ask any question, it was rhetorical, I've seen him play plenty.
But honestly, I apoligize if I sound condenscending, not trying to, it just baffles me when people say things like he has learned to drive the ball and pull up and playmake, etc, when it just isn't true. There are things that are opinion and things that are observed fact.
Sure he is a capable defender when he puts his mind to it, buthe still isn't terrific or anything, and really, he just doesnt dedicate himself to that end consistently.
I agree when people say he will be a solid role player in time, but when you listen to people describe him, you think they're talking about the next Joe Johnson or Eddie Jones and to me, that's just crazy.
I don't see much that seperates a prospect like Ellingotn and Christmas, honestly. Christmas is pretty much better at and more advanced in all t ethings people say Ellington can do and they both have very similar defiecinies.
That's all.

Cammo101 · Post #10 » by **Cammo101** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:16 pm

I do not get the Ellington hate. He put his personal numbers on the back burner to win games and people want to punish him for it. He is a better defender, passer, shooter, and overall scorer than Terrence Williams, who everyone on this board seems to have as the next Brandon Roy.

JocularMango · Post #11 » by **JocularMango** » Sat May 16, 2009 12:47 am

Ellington put up numbers in college, and that doesn't always translate, but one thing that makes me sure that Ellington will have a solid NBA career is his shot. He seems to be able to get his shot off very well, and has NBA range, on top of all moves excellently with the ball which pretty much guarantees a position in hte NBA IMO.

riehldeal · Post #12 » by **riehldeal** » Sat May 16, 2009 1:29 am

sure it MAY ensure a position in the NBA but it does not ensure a selection in the lottery

from a physical standpoint, Wayne leaves a lot to be desired. He lacks size, strength, and explosiveness. may be the same size as courtney lee but lacks courtney's fast twitch, strength, and explosiveness

Cammo101 · Post #13 » by **Cammo101** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:37 am

riehldeal wrote:sure it MAY ensure a position in the NBA but it does not ensure a selection in the lottery

from a physical standpoint, Wayne leaves a lot to be desired. He lacks size, strength, and explosiveness. may be the same size as courtney lee but lacks courtney's fast twitch, strength, and explosiveness

Funny you mention that, because Courtney Lee is the NBA player I always compare him to. They are very similar players IMO.

riehldeal · Post #14 » by **riehldeal** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:58 am

Cammo101 wrote:
riehldeal wrote:sure it MAY ensure a position in the NBA but it does not ensure a selection in the lottery

from a physical standpoint, Wayne leaves a lot to be desired. He lacks size, strength, and explosiveness. may be the same size as courtney lee but lacks courtney's fast twitch, strength, and explosiveness

Funny you mention that, because Courtney Lee is the NBA player I always compare him to. They are very similar players IMO.

I can see how that comparison could be made in terms of impact and role on a team but I see Wayne as slightly more limited in upside as a prospect as compared to Lee; mainly because of the before-mentioned physical differences

riehldeal · Post #15 » by **riehldeal** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:15 am

Cammo101 wrote:I do not get the Ellington hate. He put his personal numbers on the back burner to win games and people want to punish him for it. He is a better defender, passer, shooter, and overall scorer than Terrence Williams, who everyone on this board seems to have as the next Brandon Roy.

I trust you jumped all over these "people" making Williams-Roy comparisons... cause that is just foolish

It_Was_Typed · Post #16 » by **It_Was_Typed** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:57 am

Toss up IMO.

skiz2 · Post #17 » by **skiz2** » Sat May 16, 2009 2:17 pm

Ellington only a spot up shooter? Have you seen him play since his freshman year?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/pr ... erId=31606

And in case some people don't read this link:

Penn 5 assists
Oregon 4 assists
Virginia 8 rebounds, 5 assists
Clemson 25 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists
Maryland 34 points, 9 rebounds
Virginia 20 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists
Miami 15 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists
Gonzaga 19 points, 7 boards, 4 assists
Villanova 20 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists

So to question whether where I am coming from is fact or opinion is WAY off base. Please just look at his numbers before you write off what I say.

Look at his game log. Things that stand out to me is his high rebound rate, and having games where he dished out a ton of assists. In fact in most of his games in his dominant tourney run he would only hit like 2-3 threes. I get the sense that those of you that say Ellington is only a spot up shooter honestly haven't seen him play since his freshman year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YszIA_4kIZA (first play he slashes through the MSU defense and has a nice finish, then hits a tough pull-up mid ranger in some dudes face)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcVYoMDSPZ4&NR=1 (first ellington highlight a beautiful pass to thompson)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_jMqpM9o6k (crosses dude up and buries pulls up and buries 3 in face)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_lKtA2MAd0&NR=1 (first highlight fouled with pull-up mid ranger in face, finishes over 6'11" Austin Daye)

Not to mention the kid can throw it down when he wants too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL4qDcL4tmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_08K2wt-5G0

Much more than a spot up shooter. This isn't JJ Redick we are talking about here. Please VC watch him before you rip him to pieces. I think you are judging a freshman Wayne Ellington, to which point I would completely agree with you, but we aren't. He is a MUCH more complete player than you realize.

sipclip · Post #18 » by **sipclip** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:22 pm

Cammo101 wrote:I do not get the Ellington hate. He put his personal numbers on the back burner to win games and people want to punish him for it. He is a better defender, passer, shooter, and overall scorer than Terrence Williams, who everyone on this board seems to have as the next Brandon Roy.

He is obviously a better shooter and scorer but isn't even remotely close to being a better passer or defender than Williams.

vincecarter4pres · Post #19 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:36 am

Cammo101 wrote:I do not get the Ellington hate. He put his personal numbers on the back burner to win games and people want to punish him for it.

Funny, I clearly remember you being extremely down on him about halfway through the season and I believe you had him as a late 2nd rounder and even at some points not be drafted.

He is a better defender and passerthan Terrence Williams.

This is just absolutely false. Completely and blatantly false.

Dr Positivity · Post #20 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun May 17, 2009 2:28 am

Both look pretty limited. Bench role guys who can come in and can hit a couple shots off the bench types... for where I expect them to be drafted if they're regular rotation guys or 7th or 8th men you'll be happy with them. I'd pick Ellington between the two... he can be a Delfino level player if things go right

I think they're more like 25-30 selection types, I wouldn't touch them with a lottery pick. This draft is bad but it's not THAT bad