MINNY/NYK

[bringinhinkie]

2 guys on the trade forum claim i am "raping" minny with this deal.. anyway let me know

knicks send:

8th pick
eddy curry (due ~11mill in 2010)
mobley (expiring, ~7million is insured)

t'wolves send

mark madsen (expiring)
brian cardinal (expiring)
mike miller (expiring)

tried a similar trade like this with washington but with them being in lux it was completely unrealistic.. that doesn't apply for minny so essentially the trade would be taking on currys extra year which will count as 11.2 mill against the cap, but with mobleys insurance they only actually pay 4-5 extra million dollars which i believe (?) is worth paying for the 8th pick in the draft.. theyd then have the 6th and 8th overall picks..

i mean the only way id see minny declining is if they really though they could get someone in 2010 (Joe johnson? idk), which they may and if so i understand that is why i am asking your opinion..

essentially the owner is paying 4-5mill for the 8th pick.. eddys contract DOES count against 2010, but when looking at the bigger picture (mobleys insurance), minny is only paying 4-5mill of it

i can understand why minny may decline, but am i really "raping" you guys in this?

[Foye]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 2&t=910731

Look at the responses from this thread and you know why we will refuse your trade, too, because it is very similar to the trade posted a few days ago.

Unless your adding some more talent other than the #8 pick there is no way we would ever accept this.

[bringinhinkie]

my man this is totally different.. JJ has negative value.. that trade has you guys paying about 20million dollars for our 8th pick..

my trade has you guys paying 4.7 million dollars for the 8th pick, due to mobleys 75% insured contract..


madsen is owed 2.8mill in 2009
miller is owed 9.8mill in 2009
cardinal is owed 6.8mill in 2009
total outgoing: 19.4 mill

mobley is owed 9.5mill in 2009
curry is owed 10.5mill in 2009
curry is owed 11.2 mill in 2010
mobleys contract is 75% insured, 75% of 9.5 = 7.1mill
total outgoing: 24.1mill

24.1-19.4= 4.7mill

[bringinhinkie]

and again i understand why minny would decline, but my trade is far diff from that other one

[shrink]

Its not unfair (so you're instantly starting in front of 95% of trade posters, but the problem for the Wolves is that Curry's $11.2 mil next year is going to cost us straight cap space.

I think your package may be fair, but you need to find a team that:

1. Needs off-the-books cash

2. Has no special need for the 2010 money, like free agency or avoiding the lux.

[bringinhinkie]

Its not unfair (so you're instantly starting in front of 95% of trade posters, but the problem for the Wolves is that Curry's $11.2 mil next year is going to cost us straight cap space.

I think your package may be fair, but you need to find a team that:

1. Needs off-the-books cash

2. Has no special need for the 2010 money, like free agency or avoiding the lux.

gotcha.. i was looking at it as an alternative for you guys if you felt 2010 didn't have someone you either wanted/felt you had a legit shot at

i figured (looking from minny perspective), that unless you guys had a specific target in 2010 (which you may like i said idk), i felt an alternative would be buy this pick on the cheap, draft whoever, then in 2011 go for the melo+ FA class (which may fit minny better as 2 of the top 2010 free agents are bosh/amare and minny has a solid young frontline and as i dont see lebron or wade going to minny- i mean its not impossible just an honest opinion, and i also personally am not that high on joe johnson, least not on a max contract)

thank you though just figured id post it here for a minny fans opinion.. the people in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=911685) attacked me as if i offered eddy curry for foye, love, and al jeff.. calling me an arrogant homer

[4ho5ive]

Agreed that this is much different than the Curry + JJ trade. THAT was pure rapeage. This on the other hand is exactly what you called it from the start, an alternative. Its not plan a, nor was it intended to be, its just a last ditch effort if we dont think we can get a shot at any big time FA in 2010.

I still decline seeing as I have always thought that our 2010 cap space was far more likely to be used in a big time trade than just throwing money at a big name. If this was last years draft class but with these same contracts I probably do it, since that draft was loaded, this one is weaker and i dont think paying Curry to be a fat cancer is good idea, even considering Mobley's insurance.

That said, i read the thread on your board about the ridiculous trade and it seemed you and one or two other posters were the only ones that were sane. Kudos.

[the_bruce]

Id give this serious consideration.

[Esohny]

If Curry were a little more Tyson Chandler, and a little less...Curry...I'd be more excited about this trade.

[the_bruce]

A few things people take for granted. In 2010 Curry will be an expiring contract. MN gets the #8 here. MN could be in a solid position to work a s&t with curry and one of its young core parts. This deal leaves MN with capspace to sign FA's.

I'm to lazy to work out the numbers, but MN probably close to ~15m in capspace after this deal as long as gomes isnt picked up? That's plenty to wheel and deal with a solid young core.

al
love
Brewer
Foye
#6
#8
#18
#utah
#2010 mn first
#pekovic rights

If MN could get harden @6(or move up w\ pek rights to get him) & curry @8 I'd pull the trigger so fast you'd never hear BANG. Get clark @18, Beabouis @ 28 and run with it.

Al/fat Curry
Love/Clark/Smith
GOMES/Clark/Brewer
Harden/Brewer/Foye
Curry/Foye/Beabouis

Curry can work the pnr with love, spot up with al. harden can get to the rack. clark is uber long and can be mixed with al/love effectively. Foye becomes lighting off the bench. Beabouis has high upside. Brewer should mix well as defensive wing. Octopus arms lineup: al\clark\brewer\Harden\Beabouis???

The fat lazy curry will get some minutes and a chance to play with al out. He might be able to raise his value. Probably not enough to get an expiring, but maybe enough to be tradable for a better fitting part. Maybe the bobcats need to get out of some long term money so they dangle crash Crash for fat curry + young asset(brewer or foye). Or the obvious s&t route in 2010 with fat curry's contract + asset.

Al/#Utah pick
Love/Clark/Smith
Crash/clark/#2010 1st
Harden/Brewer/Foye??
Curry/Foye???/Beabouis

That's one hell of a lineup. Plus enough cap space to sign whomever we please.

[john2jer]

I pass pretty easily on this. To say this is paying 4-5mil for the 8th pick isn't entirely false, but it's mis-representing the facts. We' be paying $11mil in 2010 which would kill our cap space.

Wolves pass, and pretty easily. The Wolves have done a great job of clearing bad contracts to the point where we have NONE. No chance in hell we give up 11mil in cap space in 2010 for the 8th pick.

As I've stated many times before, "If your justification for a trade is that 'LeBron, Amare, and Wade aren't going to Minnesota so you have to accept my trash' then you have a bad trade."

Not only is that stupid logic, it shows that you don't understand how trades, the CBA, the economy, and the NBA as a whole works. That $11mil we give up for Curry not only could be used straight up to sign a FA, but it can be used in sign and trades, or regular trades where we either get talent or get future assets.

It's funny that pretty much everyone on these forums scream how bad this draft is, especially when it's them defending against a trade, but somehow Minnesota is able to grab a "stud" at #8. Now, in my opinion, this draft is much better than believed, but the hypocrisy is legendary.

I do like how the OP add Mobley in with Curry, which makes the deal more attractive, but it's still an emphatic "no."

[the_bruce]

It may be misleading about the cost of the pick, but even still mobleys deal is extremely movable. Who wants to save 7m right now! In fact MN could probably get a pick out of the savings if they wanted to trade it for that.

[wolves_fan_82au]

doesnt curry contract last tothe end of 2011/2012 season not the 2010/2011 season ?

[Danimals]

Jared Jeffries and the 8th pick for Brian Cardinal and the 28th pick sounds good to me, for both teams.

[skorff26]

The only problem if we get Curry is that we would be kind of committing to rebuilding for another 2 years. Minnesota has already lost enough fans, that is why in the 2010 offseason we need our cap space to go sign someone for a lot of money (hopefully someone like JJ) or trade that cap space for a player or two to help out right away but Minnesota will make a move to signal to their fans that they are committed to winning not continuously rebuilding.

As for the trade itself, I think that the cap space will end up being worth more if we hold onto it.

But I guess I wouldn't mind us doing this:
NY Out: Curry, Mobley, #8, 3 million cash; NY In: Telfair, Cardinal, Miller, Daniels
Why? save a ton of cap space in 2010, could find someone to take telfair for more cap room
MN Out: Gomes, Telfair, Cardinal, Miller; MN In: Curry, Mobley, #8, #21, 3 million cash
Why? add 2 picks, and gain additional 2009 cap space
New Orleans Out: Daniels, #21; NO In: Gomes
Why? Save money and get a player in Gomes that would be useful

Then trade Foye to Philly: Foye/Madsen for Speights/Green

With 2009 cap space, do the cap space for amir/#15 trade idea

Then trade Mobley, C. Smith to Washington for E. Thomas, M. James, #5, 3 million cash to put towards buying out James right away. (Washington gets under luxury tax since Mobley counts against salary cap but not against luxury tax since he has an injury exemption; I think that's how it works, and it would decrease their salary by around 10 million (20 million with luxury tax))
Draft
#5 Harden
#6 Holliday
#8 DeRozan
#15 E. Clark
#18 Mullens
#21 Casspi
#28 Mills

Then next year our depth would be
Holliday/Mills/B. Brown
Harden/Brewer/Green
Miller/DeRozan/Clark
Love/Amir/Clark
Jefferson/Speights/E.Thomas/Mullens/Curry

[karch34]

I don't really have a problem with expirings for Curry or Jeffries if it got us the #8 pick. With a Jefferies and #8 for Cardinal, I might even include #18(Danimal's plus #28 sounds more accurate though). I think #6 and #8 gives us a great shot for drafting Evans and S. Curry or some similar combination that would make me very happy.

What I don't like is Miller as an expiring as I think he has more value than that. Curry and/or Jefferies is a cap dump where the reward for helping is the #8. Adding Miller requires more value coming back, IMO.

Skorff, I love the idea. However, I don't think we'll see that many rookies as that would dwarf even the most active Portland draft.

[younggunsmn]

Not a bad trade, I can tell you tried to be fair. Where it falls apart is that Miller is worth more than an expiring contract. #8 (depending on the player) for 11 million in 2010 cap room can be justified.
Curry will then be an expiring contract to dangle. No star player will want our money in 2010 unless we draft an absolute stud this summer and turn things around this year. If we use that money to get a guy like derozan, earl clark, or jrue holiday, and they blow up, it could be worth far more than whatever 2nd-rate cadaver we throw money at.

In the end I think we can get more for miller.

You could add telfair, which would save us 2 million in '09 cap room (plus 7 mil or so in insurance from mobley contract, which doesn't count as cap room). in exchange for a possible 8.6 million hit in 2010 (counting telfair's player option for that year). Still doesn't solve the miller value problem.

A problem not mentioned yet is that Curry has an early termination option for '09, which if my CBA logic is correct, means he can't be traded until after the deadline for him to excercise his option passes, which I believe is june 30th. So a trade involving curry and the draft would have the knicks picking for us.

Jefferies/Cardinal swap sounds good, but the knicks can dump him on several teams with straight cap room to offer for #8, which is more enticing for them. Plus I think moving jeffries for 8 is not enough for them, but curry for 8 should be.

BA is right, mobley's deal might be extremely valuable, especially to a team like the wizards, bobcats or hornets. I still try to work a deal without involving miller, or one sending him to a 3rd team for more assets.

[shrink]

The only problem if we get Curry is that we would be kind of committing to rebuilding for another 2 years.

Good. This is a point I made on the board. Its not a horrible price (well, maybe with Miller), if it didn't cost us raw cap space.

I might consider this if we were willing to wait a year, and mortgage out 2010 cap space for 2011 expirings plus stuff. We could get stuff from CHA (Nazr + VladRad + stuff). MIL (Gadzuric + stuff), IND (tinsley + stuff) ... etc. If we did these deals together, no specific deal would be eating our 2010 cap space, and we'd get it all back in a 2011 move.

I agree though -- MIN fans would have a long time being patient past 2010, so I think even this is unlikely.

[john2jer]

But hey, we're Minnesota. It's like a billion degrees below 0 here every day of the year. So we should just load on up crappy contracts of guys that can't even play because there's no chance that a free agent like Kenny Thomas would want to come to Minnesota.