Eastern match-ups - Wizards vs Cavs

[closg00]

Wizards
PG: Gilbert Arenas /Randy Foye/ Mike James/Javaris Crittenton
SG: Mike Miller/ Nick Young/DeShawn Stevenson
SF: Caron Butler/ Dominic McGuire
PF: Antawn Jamison/ Oberto/ Andray Blatche
C: Brendan Haywood/JaVale McGee

Cleveland
PG: Mo Williams/Daniel Gibson
SG: Delonte West/Anthony Parker
SF: LeBron James/Jamario Moon
PF: Anderson Varejao/J.J Hickson/Joe Smith (if re-signs)
C: Shaquille O'Neal/Zydrunas Ilgauskas

PG: Match-ups: Wiz > Cavs
SG: Match-ups: Wiz > Cavs
SF: Match-ups: Cavs > Wiz
PF: Match-ups: = (If Joe Smith is resigned, they are better defensively at this position)
C: Match-ups: Cavs > Wiz

Coaching: Wiz > Cavs
Both coaches have not won the big-one, but I have give the nod to Flip on coaching.

Superstar X-Factor: LeBron > Arenas
LeBron clearly has the advantage here, especially with Gilbert returning after essentially 2-years off from multiple knee surgeries.

Advantage: Cavaliers

[pancakes3]

I would bench Miller for DMac and see if he can keep Lebron in check. Dom has the size, length, and discipline enough to keep Lebron in front of him and forcing jumpers. Hopefully Dom's jumper has improved enough to keep Lebron honest on defense.

[eltacoman]

we beat them at pg, sg pf but they murder us at SF C

i think we can take them out in 6 games

[verbal8]

I would bench Miller for DMac and see if he can keep Lebron in check. Dom has the size, length, and discipline enough to keep Lebron in front of him and forcing jumpers. Hopefully Dom's jumper has improved enough to keep Lebron honest on defense.

I would see DMac playing heavy minutes against the Cavs or other teams with a dominant wing scorer. On defense the Cavs would probably switch and have Lebron guard Caron.

[miller31time]

Joe Smith was able to give Jamison problems 2 years ago but he's regressed since then while Antawn had a near career season last year. I don't think Joe Smith potentially re-signing with Cleveland is enough to warrant calling the position "=". It's decidedly ">" in our favor.

I also don't know I'd give Washington an edge at the 2-guard. Miller and West are comparable offensive players but Delonte is a good defender while Miller is average at best. On the bench, they have Anthony Parker who, even as a starter is solid. I think this matchup deserves an "=" and not a ">" in favor of the Wizards.

All in all, the Cavs are a team that plays both ends of the floor very well. The Wizards have only proven to do so on one end and until I see proof to the contrary, the Cavaliers are on a whole 'nother level.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I see the Cavs have made an offer to Warrick. By my count, that now puts their roster at approximately 47 (the ten returning players plus the 37 free agents they have made offers to).

[closg00]

Joe Smith was able to give Jamison problems 2 years ago but he's regressed since then while Antawn had a near career season last year. I don't think Joe Smith potentially re-signing with Cleveland is enough to warrant calling the position "=". It's decidedly ">" in our favor.

I also don't know I'd give Washington an edge at the 2-guard. Miller and West are comparable offensive players but Delonte is a good defender while Miller is average at best. On the bench, they have Anthony Parker who, even as a starter is solid. I think this matchup deserves an "=" and not a ">" in favor of the Wizards.

All in all, the Cavs are a team that plays both ends of the floor very well. The Wizards have only proven to do so on one end and until I see proof to the contrary, the Cavaliers are on a whole 'nother level.

Re: The 2 -spot, I guess I mentally included Foye in the grouping also since he will probably spend some time with Gilbert in the back-court. So I like Foye, an Improved Young, & Miller as > the Cavs SG.

At PF, that was a tough-one. A Shaq + Sideshow front-court I believe could limit AJ's effectiveness enough to give them the edge on defense with the PF match-up. Perhaps someone has the numbers on this.

Overall, the Cavs I believe are an easy top-3 seed, maybe even tops.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Joe Smith was able to give Jamison problems 2 years ago but he's regressed since then while Antawn had a near career season last year. I don't think Joe Smith potentially re-signing with Cleveland is enough to warrant calling the position "=". It's decidedly ">" in our favor.

I also don't know I'd give Washington an edge at the 2-guard. Miller and West are comparable offensive players but Delonte is a good defender while Miller is average at best. On the bench, they have Anthony Parker who, even as a starter is solid. I think this matchup deserves an "=" and not a ">" in favor of the Wizards.

All in all, the Cavs are a team that plays both ends of the floor very well. The Wizards have only proven to do so on one end and until I see proof to the contrary, the Cavaliers are on a whole 'nother level.

I agree about SG. Cleveland has the advantage there IMO. (Add Danny Green to their deep bench).

Even at PG, Mo Williams hit shots on Gil and so did a healthy Daniel Gibson. The Wizards have the advantage if Gil's about 85% of what he was and can stay healthy.

I just don't see the Wizards being better than Cleveland particularly since they added Shaq, who tears Haywood up when they play. Of all the teams, with NOBODY defending Lebron, this is a bad matchup for the Wizards and it's been that way for years. Shaq just makes it tougher for the Wizards.

The Wizard who matches up best against Lebron is Dominic McGuire. He won't even play much on this team.

[DaRealHibachi]

I dunno...

We always match up well against them, even if we don't on paper... Having Gil back will certainly help us against them, and having credible backups at most (if not all) positions will also be a mayor factor for us... They might beat us in a 7 game series, but I also like our odds...

PS: Let's hope the Cavs fans don't see this thread, this one may end up worse than the Wizards-Magic one...

[FreeBalling]

I dunno...
PS: Let's hope the Cavs fans don't see this thread, this one may end up worse than the Wizards-Magic one...

What? That's the best reading.

[DaRealHibachi]

I dunno...
PS: Let's hope the Cavs fans don't see this thread, this one may end up worse than the Wizards-Magic one...

What? That's the best reading.

There's your invite Cavs fans...

[pancakes3]

no cleveland responses. i guess they don't let the kids use computers in summer school.

[dobrojim]

we've played them tough when healthy

I don't think Shaq helps them that much. C was already
a position of strength for them, Z being a pretty solid
player although I agree with whoever pointed out that
Shaq always played well against Haywood, Z less so.

no predictions, just observations

[JonathanJoseph]

Basketball isn't played on paper, so comparing PGs-to-PGs doesn't matter. Sure the addition of Shaq negates some of the Haywood domination of Big Z, but did Cleveland really get much better with this move?

Shaq is still a great player, but he's not the game changer he once was. Shaq+Lebron isn't going to be much better than Shaq+Amare+Nash and that combination didn't scare too many people.

Big Z wasn't the problem for the Cavs, it was scoring and defending the pick-and-roll and Shaq doesn't help them in either category.

I see the Wizards scoring 106-108 ppg game and the question is can the Cavs score enough to win 4 out of 7? I'm not sure.

[Dat2U]

Basketball isn't played on paper, so comparing PGs-to-PGs doesn't matter. Sure the addition of Shaq negates some of the Haywood domination of Big Z, but did Cleveland really get much better with this move?

Shaq is still a great player, but he's not the game changer he once was. Shaq+Lebron isn't going to be much better than Shaq+Amare+Nash and that combination didn't scare too many people.

Big Z wasn't the problem for the Cavs, it was scoring and defending the pick-and-roll and Shaq doesn't help them in either category.

I see the Wizards scoring 106-108 ppg game and the question is can the Cavs score enough to win 4 out of 7? I'm not sure.

I definitely agree with you about comparing position to position. It's completely irrevelant with teams constantly switching on D or funneling ballhandlers to certain spots on the floor. You have to look at the lineups in totality.

In regards to Cleveland, I don't expect them to improve much in terms of their regular season play. What we do know about them is that they are damn good and almost never lost at home over the course of the season. I don't really expect that to change.

However I think we make too much of Cleveland's shortcomings b/c they ran into a bad matchup against Orlando. Not only could Orlando spread the floor and expose mismatches at the offensive end, they were arugably one of the best defending teams in the league. That's what seperates us from doing what Orlando did. LeBron went off against Orlando, but Orlando basically shut down all the complementary players. MoWill did nothing. West did nothing. Big Z did nothing.

Shaq was brought in to be that legit 2nd option come playoff time. MoWill did fine in that role up until the conference finals but probably played over his head. Put Shaq in the playoff series against Orlando he offensively he probably is enough to push the Cavs over the top and force Dwight Howard into more foul trouble than he already had.

Secondly, we aren't the type of team that shuts down the complimentary players like Orlando did. Mo Williams has lit us up for years, even from his Milwaukee days. Whenever Wood was on the bench or not playing, Big Z has had his way with us as well.

Do we give the Cavs a good run for their money? Sure. Offensively we can put on a show and score with the best of them. But can we get stops when it counts? We have yet to show that we have the mental toughness to do so nor the physical talent either. Right now, the Cavs own the Wizards. I hate to say it but the track record shows that they have our playoff number. The Wizards may make a big deal about what happens in the regular season but until we are able to beat Cleveland in the playoffs, were definitely behind them in the pecking order of contending teams.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I definitely agree with you about comparing position to position. It's completely irrevelant with teams constantly switching on D or funneling ballhandlers to certain spots on the floor. You have to look at the lineups in totality.

In regards to Cleveland, I don't expect them to improve much in terms of their regular season play. What we do know about them is that they are damn good and almost never lost at home over the course of the season. I don't really expect that to change.

However I think we make too much of Cleveland's shortcomings b/c they ran into a bad matchup against Orlando. Not only could Orlando spread the floor and expose mismatches at the offensive end, they were arugably one of the best defending teams in the league. That's what seperates us from doing what Orlando did. LeBron went off against Orlando, but Orlando basically shut down all the complementary players. MoWill did nothing. West did nothing. Big Z did nothing.

Shaq was brought in to be that legit 2nd option come playoff time. MoWill did fine in that role up until the conference finals but probably played over his head. Put Shaq in the playoff series against Orlando he offensively he probably is enough to push the Cavs over the top and force Dwight Howard into more foul trouble than he already had.

Secondly, we aren't the type of team that shuts down the complimentary players like Orlando did. Mo Williams has lit us up for years, even from his Milwaukee days. Whenever Wood was on the bench or not playing, Big Z has had his way with us as well.

Do we give the Cavs a good run for their money? Sure. Offensively we can put on a show and score with the best of them. But can we get stops when it counts? We have yet to show that we have the mental toughness to do so nor the physical talent either. Right now, the Cavs own the Wizards. I hate to say it but the track record shows that they have our playoff number. The Wizards may make a big deal about what happens in the regular season but until we are able to beat Cleveland in the playoffs, were definitely behind them in the pecking order of contending teams.

Great post, Dat. I agree with every point.

Wiz fans shouldn't fault Cleveland for running into Orlando in the playoffs. It was simply a bad matchup. Wiz fans also shouldn't get a few regular season wins against the Cavs confused with the reality of having no playoff success against the Cavs.

The real ineresting thing to me is that the Cavs are going to be different with Shaq. Not sure how the playoffs will go down, but that team's different. Likewise, the Magic are going to be different having upgraded in the backcourt with Carter but having lost the matchup advantage thay had with Turkoglu's height, ball handling, perimeter skills and defense at SF. What's funny is that Cleveland's countermove with Shaq in the middle will meet an entirely different-looking attack from the Magic. That team's got two PF now that can board like a bonafide PF in Bass and Anderson. On the wings they don't just have Pietrus' athleticism. Now they have Carter and Barnes who can both score inside and out. Anderson has a perimeter game that's possibly on a par with Turkoglu's.

I think the Magic defintely added talent, and talent that is in or approaching it's prime.

Likewise, the Cavs added not only Shaq but also pretty good role players in Moon and Parker. Losing Wally helps that team, too.

With al the changes Orlando and Cleveland made I have to say EG revamped Washington from coaching to personnel in a way that leads me to believe this will be the best Wizards' team we've seen in 30 years. Even without ANY defensive peersonnel upgrades. Imagine if improved ball movement, shot selection, field goal perscentage, rebounding with Miller at SG, and improved play from the young guys kicks in. I even love the attitude of a guy who I consider a warrior on the team: DeShawn Stevenson. He's okay with the moves the team has made and knows he has to up his game at SG. That's the way a professional and a competetitor responds. His effort to keep his spot is only going to raise everybody's game. Nick and Randy Foye are going to have to battle for minutes. The team will benefit from improved play at SG one way or another.

So regardless of improvements Cleveland and Orlando have made, we'll see a much-improved Wizards team. I'm looking forward to this season.

[JonathanJoseph]

I definitely agree with you about comparing position to position. It's completely irrevelant with teams constantly switching on D or funneling ballhandlers to certain spots on the floor. You have to look at the lineups in totality.

In regards to Cleveland, I don't expect them to improve much in terms of their regular season play. What we do know about them is that they are damn good and almost never lost at home over the course of the season. I don't really expect that to change.

However I think we make too much of Cleveland's shortcomings b/c they ran into a bad matchup against Orlando. Not only could Orlando spread the floor and expose mismatches at the offensive end, they were arugably one of the best defending teams in the league. That's what seperates us from doing what Orlando did. LeBron went off against Orlando, but Orlando basically shut down all the complementary players. MoWill did nothing. West did nothing. Big Z did nothing.

Shaq was brought in to be that legit 2nd option come playoff time. MoWill did fine in that role up until the conference finals but probably played over his head. Put Shaq in the playoff series against Orlando he offensively he probably is enough to push the Cavs over the top and force Dwight Howard into more foul trouble than he already had.

Secondly, we aren't the type of team that shuts down the complimentary players like Orlando did. Mo Williams has lit us up for years, even from his Milwaukee days. Whenever Wood was on the bench or not playing, Big Z has had his way with us as well.

Do we give the Cavs a good run for their money? Sure. Offensively we can put on a show and score with the best of them. But can we get stops when it counts? We have yet to show that we have the mental toughness to do so nor the physical talent either. Right now, the Cavs own the Wizards. I hate to say it but the track record shows that they have our playoff number. The Wizards may make a big deal about what happens in the regular season but until we are able to beat Cleveland in the playoffs, were definitely behind them in the pecking order of contending teams.

A few points...

You are correct about Orlando spreading Cleveland out and creating mismatches....well Shaq makes that problem worse. And Orlando wasn't using Howard in the low post, but rather in the high post as the screener in the pick and roll. They are still vulnerable to that game, and the Wizards should go from one of the worst to one of the best 3 point shooting teams.

I would like to retire the thinking that we "aren't the kind of team that can get stops". Eddie Jordan teams can't get stops. Flip Saunders teams can get stops, and we are now a Flip Saunders team. Until I see otherwise, I expect a Wizards team that plays pretty good defense. The Summer League squad played really good defense at times.

I would also like to retire the thinking that the Cavs "own" us in the playoffs. Well, it is certainly true that they have won all the series, but they have had the good fortune of health since 2005. It certainly gives them the wins in the history books, but its irrelevant to discussing the upcoming season. As far as talking about prospects for beating the Cavs in 2009, it makes no difference what happened when the Wizards were trotting out Jarvis Hayes and Michael Ruffin with Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas in streetclothes. Yeah, that team was mediocre, I know already that.

The Cavs can only play 2 of Shaq/Z/Varejao at any one time and can only play 1 of Moon/Parker or West/Gibson alongside LeBron and Mo Williams. If they go Moon or Parker they will have problems scoring and if they go West/Gibson they are really small (compared the Wiz/Magic). I don't see how these pieces fit together very well.

I think the Cavs cannot score enough or match up with either the Wiz or the Magic.

[Hoopalotta]

One issue with the Cavs though would seem to be a real lack of depth at the forward slots.

They have:

James
Varejao (who will be a pure '4' unless one of the big boys gets hurt)
Moon
Hickson

That's it thus far, though the wiretap is making it well clear that they're going to grab someone else.
Hoops Hype is headlining with: "Cavs covet from amongst Joe Smith, Leon Powe, Rob Kurz and Steve Novak"

But that is the real weakness of the team right now. Moon can shoot, but he's the only guy who can shoot, and when Shaq is on the floor, there will be the urge for them to swing James to the power slot and go with Moon for spacing reasons. We'll see how it works out, but as of now they are a bit hamstrung as far as what looks they can go with there; they have four good guards and two starting centers, but if even middling roleplayers like Varejao or Moon went down, they would suddenly be riding a mule without the ability to make in game matchup adjustments. I mention those guys because, conversely, the Zards could lose quality players at a number of positions and still have lots of flexibility.

I guess all told, it wouldn't be surprising to see them resign J.Smith; they need guaranteed production this year, so Powe is dicey - and he can't shoot - and Novak can shoot, but I don't know if he fits in their title run so well at this point as he's untested. I have no idea who this 'Kurz' guy is.

No team can stand injuries to their best players, but if you have two positions that you couldn't stand losing your sixth, seventh or even eight best players, that's the definition of a positional weakness right there. You have to wonder that, even with health, are those guys going to be able to give you the looks and floor balance you need to make the offense work?

[Brenice]

The pressure will be on Washington to stop LeBron. The pressure will be on Cleveland to stop Washington. How many points will LeBron HAVE to average for Cleveland to be able to keep up with Washington? Who can get stops? LeBron will have to dominate like he never has before. Remember, LeBron got warn out trying to keep pace with Orlando. Sure he dominated early in the series, but as the series went on, he was not as dominant. Washington will be able to throw DeShawn, McGuire, and Caron at him while still getting minutes for Miller, Foye, and Nick. The offensive depth of the wizards will allow washington to keep the tempo high, which is contrary to how Shaq and Z, but also a factor for LeBron over the long haul. LeBron will not be able to take much rest.

Also consider that yes, Shaq dominated Brendan when Brendan was a bum and Shaq was younger, when he played for Miami, but he has not dominated Brendan recently.

[REDardWIZskin]

The key to beat Cleveland and also they key to our success this yr will depend on the pace of the game we play and if we can set the pace for the game, Cleveland was a team that liked to walk the ball up the floor and establish their offense. Most of their fast break points were one man fast breaks from Lebron (many of which we experienced first hand). But with shaq, now they will emphasize even more of half court game. If we can speed up the tempo of the game, maybe even pressing them full court on D, (or a half court trap because its hard to keep Lebron in front of you, to porovide help). This style of play uses much more energy. We have the depth to do it but they don't and most teams don't. I expect us to be one of the better fast break teams this yr.