Sheed and Quis' combine to replace Posey?

[SichtingLives]

As we all know, James Posey filled a number of different needs during the 2008 season. Most important and most general is that he gave us a legitimate 6th man off the bench. He gave us a tough perimeter defender with length, a clutch 3 point shooter and a good decision maker. He gave Doc options to mix and match with the starters. His role was vital to the success of the team.

Last year, there was a void at his spot when he left. We lost that extra 3 point shooter off the bench and we lost his poise with that 2nd unit, but probably more important was our lack of a perimeter defender to guard the bigger swingmen of the league. Between Scal, TA and Billy Walker, nobody off the bench quite did what James did for this team on the defensive end. It ultimately left the honus on PP and Ray Allen to play more minutes, because that flexibility on the bench was gone, and we all saw the toll that took on them at the end of a long season.

Upon watching the first week of this season, I have seen both Marquis and Rasheed filling alot of those specific holes vacated a year ago. I see Marquis showing much of the same defensive ability as well as the heady play to sort out a good decision from a poor one. I see Rasheed being a 2nd guy next to Eddie who can space the floor and knock down threes, although he certainly chucks them up more frequently than Posey did, and maybe not quite as efficiently.

It might seem pretty obvious to think that these two guys were going to come in here and make our bench infinitely more productive. I guess I'm just a little surprised to see such similarities of the little things JP used to do for this team being replicated by these two guys. It's certainly a welcome sight.

Now if only we can get our starters back in the same collective rhythm they've played with for the past 2 seasons, this train will be completely unstoppable.

[GuyClinch]

Hmm? You didn't follow the team during the off-season? Why do you think we were all excited when Ainge got these two guys. <g>

[SichtingLives]

Follow the team, sure. Just didn't think they'd have a combined skillset so similar.

[aboubata]

actually they replace Pose, PJ, Sam and more.

[ParticleMan]

you make Posey sound like an allstar. he wasn't that important in the first place.
quis+sheed fills way more roles than just what posey provided.

[SichtingLives]

you make Posey sound like an allstar. he wasn't that important in the first place.
quis+sheed fills way more roles than just what posey provided.

He wasn't more important than any of the starters, although he did have as much of a positive impact as both Rondo and Perk did over the course of that year, but take him off that team and we're still sittin on 16, no question about it. And for the record, his departure was the biggest reason our bench was a pile of crap a year ago. So no, not an all-star. But to say he wasn't that important? You can say that a billion times but it still won't be true.

And yes, they do fill more roles than just what Posey did. The point was that they both do different things which together fill the role Posey had, and it's nice to see that re-materialize after going a year without any semblance of floor spacing on the 2nd unit or a capable back-up swing defender who can guard players bigger than 6'5" on the perimeter. Sheed's presence alone as a shooter creates more space for Eddie, just like Posey's did two years ago. There's a lot of similarities, and a stark contrast between what made us work in 08, what didn't work last year, and back to what looks right this year (only referring to the bench).

[Dave_From_NB]

Personally I think between them they're a better backup at all 5 positions than Posey. An immense upgrade over Posey IMO.

[SonicYouth34]

actually they replace Pose, PJ, Sam and more.

^ This. Sheed and Quisy could start for most teams in the league and bring more to the table than most players can.

[Bad-Thoma]

you make Posey sound like an allstar. he wasn't that important in the first place.
quis+sheed fills way more roles than just what posey provided.

This.

Sheed alone is an upgrade over Posey, he's a better overall defender and fills a more imporant need by defending the paint rather than the perimeter. Offensively Posey hit his 3 at a better rate but Sheed "can" be more versatile with some post play. Daniels is just gravy on top of this.

[leper-con]

THE good thing is

you may beat this team once,
you may even beat this team twice

but there is no way you are going to beat this team 4 out of 7 times.

[Scalamental]

you make Posey sound like an allstar. he wasn't that important in the first place.
quis+sheed fills way more roles than just what posey provided.

This.

Sheed alone is an upgrade over Posey, he's a better overall defender and fills a more imporant need by defending the paint rather than the perimeter. Offensively Posey hit his 3 at a better rate but Sheed "can" be more versatile with some post play. Daniels is just gravy on top of this.

True that Sheed alone is a better all around player than posey, by a long shot. But... sheed's not a sf, marquis is not a lock down defender, posey would guard kobe or lebron better than either of them. But if the team defense is better now than ever, maybe that doesn't matter. We'll see in january when we play the lakers.

[ParticleMan]

Posey had an opponents PER of 16.8 with us, the worst among anyone who played more than 20% of the minutes. his defense was overrated. when we actually wanted to stop lebron or kobe we had to put pierce on them; posey sucked at defending both. he hit some big 3's, i'll give him that, but basically that was ALL he did on offense, and if his 3 wasn't falling he was useless on O. he didn't create for others, he didn't handle the ball, he didn't drive to the hole.

i'm not saying posey sucked, he was a solid bench player. obviously losing Posey and trying to replace him with a gimpy and inconsistent tony allen failed miserably. but it's not because posey was so vital, it's just because he got replaced by essentially nobody. i'd easily take marquis over posey, let alone sheed. and marquis imo is a better defender too, just because of his versatility; Posey just couldn't defend quicker SGs.

[SichtingLives]

To clarify, at no point am I comparing Rasheed or Daniels to Posey as a player. I'd much rather have either one of them alone over Posey. What I'm comparing is their collective roles in the system and the positive effect it has on the team, and using last year as a contrast between the two.

Posey had an opponents PER of 16.8 with us, the worst among anyone who played more than 20% of the minutes. his defense was overrated. when we actually wanted to stop lebron or kobe we had to put pierce on them; posey sucked at defending both. he hit some big 3's, i'll give him that, but basically that was ALL he did on offense, and if his 3 wasn't falling he was useless on O. he didn't create for others, he didn't handle the ball, he didn't drive to the hole.

i'm not saying posey sucked, he was a solid bench player. obviously losing Posey and trying to replace him with a gimpy and inconsistent tony allen failed miserably. but it's not because posey was so vital, it's just because he got replaced by essentially nobody. i'd easily take marquis over posey, let alone sheed. and marquis imo is a better defender too, just because of his versatility; Posey just couldn't defend quicker SGs.

After the run of a dramatic season and long-awaited championship, his defense certainly has been overrated after the fact. Still at the very least, his D was sufficient for what the team needed from him. And why we would be asking or expecting any bench player to guard Lebron or Kobe? I'd hope one of our all-stars would be up to that task.

I wouldn't say he was useless on offense either when his shot wasn't falling. He wasn't a playmaker but could be counted on to make smart decisions with the ball, something the rest of the bench often had trouble with. It may have been subtle but he provided a good deal of stability for that unit.

Anyway you see him as less of an important piece to that team than I do, but I can see where you're coming from. I wasn't intending for this to be a praise James Posey thread. More like praise for having solid bench players in the general.

[Scalamental]

Posey had an opponents PER of 16.8 with us, the worst among anyone who played more than 20% of the minutes. his defense was overrated. when we actually wanted to stop lebron or kobe we had to put pierce on them; posey sucked at defending both. he hit some big 3's, i'll give him that, but basically that was ALL he did on offense, and if his 3 wasn't falling he was useless on O. he didn't create for others, he didn't handle the ball, he didn't drive to the hole.

i'm not saying posey sucked

I think you are.

[return2glory]

you make Posey sound like an allstar. he wasn't that important in the first place.
quis+sheed fills way more roles than just what posey provided.

Wow, really? Tell that to the players in the playoffs when we came back from 28 behind on the Lakers court. Posey was one of the keys for us winning.

I guess you didn't watch game 1 of the Finals either when Kobe drove down the lane. After the whistle blew, Kobe kept on going to the hoop, and Posey gave him an elbow to the ribs. That set the tone and Kobe was never the same after that.

[GuyClinch]

Posey was incredibly clutch in the playoffs. While Wallace and Quis combined are certainly far superior talent wise they have yet to put their mark on a Celtics championship the way Posey did. Posey was a Dave Roberts for the Celtics..

As for the OP again I think everyone knows these guys are superior to Posey talent wise. Its not a surprise to almost any of the fans on this board.. R. Wallace is as talented as anyone - even superstars and Quis is almost criminally underrated..

[Captain_Caveman]

Sheed and Quis easily replace Posey and PJ.

But who is going to replace the 2007 versions of KG and Ray?

Those guys are both standing on the edge of the cliff.

[canman1971]

Sheed and Quis easily replace Posey and PJ.

But who is going to replace the 2007 versions of KG and Ray?

Those guys are both standing on the edge of the cliff.

I know, they started out 7-1 with 8 games in 12 days or whatever. Man they are done.

But to answer the OP, Daniels alone replaces Posey and then some. Posey, to some, on this board is like a myth. He wasn't that good when he was here, and he still isn't.

[cloverleaf]

Sheed and Quis easily replace Posey and PJ.

But who is going to replace the 2007 versions of KG and Ray?

Those guys are both standing on the edge of the cliff.

I know, they started out 7-1 with 8 games in 12 days or whatever. Man they are done.

But to answer the OP, Daniels alone replaces Posey and then some. Posey, to some, on this board is like a myth. He wasn't that good when he was here, and he still isn't.

Not only is Daniels better, but he plays twice the minutes Posey did.

[ParticleMan]

Posey had an opponents PER of 16.8 with us, the worst among anyone who played more than 20% of the minutes. his defense was overrated. when we actually wanted to stop lebron or kobe we had to put pierce on them; posey sucked at defending both. he hit some big 3's, i'll give him that, but basically that was ALL he did on offense, and if his 3 wasn't falling he was useless on O. he didn't create for others, he didn't handle the ball, he didn't drive to the hole.

i'm not saying posey sucked

I think you are.

haha. seriously tho, i'm really not. i was very happy with him as a $3mil bench player. he was a solid defender, tho not great, and he definitely hit some big shots. i just think there is some kind of grand mythology surrounding posey (as canman said) and people still rag on the C's brass for not resigning him to that ridiculous deal than NO gave him, and even go so far as to blame that for us not repeating last year. sure he had his moments, as did Powe and others off the bench, but he just wasn't that much of a difference maker.