How Bad Will They Be?

Lateral Quicks · Post #1 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Am I the only one who isn't predicting bottom-dwelling status for next year and beyond?

The team will be losing one starting pitcher from its rotation last year. Granted he is the best in baseball, but he's still only one in five. Moreover, the rotation could be bolstered considerably by the return of a healthy Marcum (let's not forget the tremendous season he had before the injury) and Litsch (very good end of rotation guy from what he showed when healthy) and the improvement of its other young pitchers. The starting pitching was pretty bad last year. Call me crazy, but I don't see it getting any worse. Also, assuming they're healthier, the bullpen should have much more quality depth this year too.

Offensively the two best hitters on the team from last year are sitll here. If Wells has a bounce back year and at least one of Snider, Wallace, or Ruiz have a good year, there shoudl be some decent run support out there.

Sure I don't see them winning the championship any time soon, but I could see this team win 70-75 games next year, which hardly classifies them as the worst team in the majors. Maybe nothing to get too excited about, but hardly deplorable.

I hate to see Halladay go, but I think I'll enjoy watching this team more going forward now that we have the development of some good young players to look forward to.

LieCheatSteal · Post #2 » by **LieCheatSteal** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:59 pm

59-103

Probably as bad as the Nationals last year.

Post #3 » by **Schad** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:04 pm

Very...not 'worst team in all of baseball' bad, but we'll be in the AL East basement and have an outside shot at the worst record in the AL (chasing down Pittsburgh and Washington ain't easy). No worries there; we'll get a top-5 pick in all likelihood, and sucking provides more incentive to cash in some of our veterans, though I doubt AA is hesitating in that regard as is.

Post #4 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Toronto wins 40 or less games next year book that new GM of ours gets fired in the season. I can see Aaron Hill wanting out as well and us being stuck with Vernon Wells till his contract runs out which is painfull looks like I will be avoiding the Jays this year and watching more Mariners games as they are my favourite team again even without Ken Griffey Jr.

Hoopstarr · Post #5 » by **Hoopstarr** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:41 pm

xbl_sucks wrote:Toronto wins 40 or less games next year book that new GM of ours gets fired in the season. I can see Aaron Hill wanting out as well and us being stuck with Vernon Wells till his contract runs out which is painfull looks like I will be avoiding the Jays this year and watching more Mariners games as they are my favourite team again even without Ken Griffey Jr.

Yea...that's just stupid. Even the worst teams win 55+ games without even trying. That's how baseball works. The only team in the last 40 years to come even close to 40 wins is the Tigers in 2003. These are not the 2003 Detroit Tigers.

I think they'll win between 65-70 games.

Post #6 » by **Schad** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Heh, and Anthopolous ain't going to get fired less than a year into a rebuild after doing exactly what the organization expected him to do.

Avenger · Post #7 » by **Avenger** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:39 pm

i don't think they're gonna be all that bad to honest. I expect Vernon to bounce back, E5 should finally be free of any wrist problems, he might put up a good offensive season and hopefully Snider begins to fulfill his talent.

The Flying Gent · Post #8 » by **The Flying Gent** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:21 am

Oh man i hope they suck bad as i'm sure they will and i'm actually looking forward to it. Youth development! Draft picks! No stress from the losing!

RINSE · Post #9 » by **RINSE** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:28 am

xbl_sucks wrote:Toronto wins 40 or less games next year book that new GM of ours gets fired in the season. I can see Aaron Hill wanting out as well and us being stuck with Vernon Wells till his contract runs out which is painfull looks like I will be avoiding the Jays this year and watching more Mariners games as they are my favourite team again even without Ken Griffey Jr.

Did you start watching baseball yesterday or something?

Post #10 » by **Schad** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:41 am

I just noticed the 'even without Ken Griffey Jr.' bit. You are in for a pleasant surprise when you turn on the Mariners season opener, though one you could have experienced about eight months ago.

Test of Wills · Post #11 » by **Test of Wills** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:52 am

xbl_sucks wrote:Toronto wins 40 or less games next year book that new GM of ours gets fired in the season. I can see Aaron Hill wanting out as well and us being stuck with Vernon Wells till his contract runs out which is painfull looks like I will be avoiding the Jays this year and watching more Mariners games as they are my favourite team again even without Ken Griffey Jr.

Come on, man.

Post #12 » by **OldNo7** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:27 am

The Raptors board is slowly coming in...

s e n s i · Post #13 » by **s e n s i** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:32 am

Robinson Cano over Chase Utley and now this? Bahaha. RealGM Jays board always comes through when I'm jonesin' for a chuckle.

Raps in 4 · Post #14 » by **Raps in 4** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:55 am

Avenger wrote:i don't think they're gonna be all that bad to honest. I expect Vernon to bounce back, E5 should finally be free of any wrist problems, he might put up a good offensive season and hopefully Snider begins to fulfill his talent.

If Vernon hits over .250 with more than 15 HRs it'll be considered a success. The guy is a loser, no way he puts in any effort to improve his game, he's not that kind of guy.

Anyway, I expect we win about 65-70 games. We're rebuilding, so no one should have their hopes set high.

Modern_epic · Post #15 » by **Modern_epic** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:21 am

UssjTrunks wrote:
Avenger wrote:i don't think they're gonna be all that bad to honest. I expect Vernon to bounce back, E5 should finally be free of any wrist problems, he might put up a good offensive season and hopefully Snider begins to fulfill his talent.

If Vernon hits over .250 with more than 15 HRs it'll be considered a success. The guy is a loser, no way he puts in any effort to improve his game, he's not that kind of guy.

Anyway, I expect we win about 65-70 games. We're rebuilding, so no one should have their hopes set high.

Knock Vernon's results all you want. I know I do. But yes, he is that kind of guy.

Vernon's failures have little to do with effort and a lot to do with declining athleticism due to age. By all accounts he trained as hard as he ever had going into last season, and it was his worst. He's hardly the first player at a premium defensive position to fall of drastically in his early thirties.

Post #16 » by **OldNo7** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:52 am

69-93. Book it.

MGD24 · Post #17 » by **MGD24** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:47 pm

I think these guys are gonna bond together and I see them winning 70 games...I know...a little high...but I wouldn't be a huge Jays fan if I didn't think that way.

71-91 - 4th in the East

youngLion · Post #18 » by **youngLion** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:03 pm

Well look it's going to be ugly, but xbl is waaay off the deep end. Anthopoulos has Beeston behind him 100% and there's no way he gets canned this early on. I'd say 65-70 games.

LieCheatSteal · Post #19 » by **LieCheatSteal** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:52 pm

1) AA will not be fired for at least 4 years. He has the "previous GM was so terrible" card to play for the next 4 years or so. This is the same card BC (b/c of Babcock) and Burke (b/c of JFJ) is playing right now. A "real life" example would be Jean Chretien (b/c of Mulroney).

2) I agree that Marcum can come right into be the ace. From what I remember, he was already throwing at a pretty good clip at last year's Spring Training. However, I still see the Jays babying him more because of the history of arm troubles the Jays have endured over the last couple of years. That could change now that Arnsberg is gone.

3) Putting Wells in 4th is a big mistake. He's going to be under EMMENSE pressure because his contract is clicking in right now. Putting him under the scope as the key #4 hitter would really make things worse. Move him to a less pressure like the 6 spot would allow him to get into the rhythm and maybe contribute higher up if he does well.

Post #20 » by **Schad** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:14 pm

If we want Marcum to be a long-term asset, we have to treat him like one. Giving him 200 innings straight off TJ surgery is a really bad idea; part of the problem is that pitchers tend to alter their mechanics slightly to 'protect' their elbow, and what often ends up happening is that they load stress on their shoulders, which leads to much worse problems...like frayed labrums/rotator cuffs, which can kill a career.

We're not playing for this season; there is absolutely no reason to ride Marcum hard and potentially ruin his career.