Is Rondo the TRUE Assists leader?

[Captain_Caveman]

As you know, Rajon is now 3rd in the NBA in assists per game, behind only Nash and Paul. Assists are obviously sort of a dubious stat, as John Stockton's home scorekeeper surely knows deep down in his Jazz fan heart.

But humor me for a moment regardless...

Chris Paul has 11.2 game, Nash has 11.1, Rondo has 9.8. So to start, he is only 1.5 assists behind the leaders. While Rondo does play alongside some great talent, this is a double-edged sword. Not like Nash doesn't play with scorers, after all... and while Rondo has the ball a lot, he doesn't dominate it in the same way that Nash or Paul do. Much of our offense is still run through Pierce, KG or even Allen.

But the real difference to me is in tempo. New Orleans is tied for 6th in the league with 84.1 Attempted Field Goals per game, Phoenix is tied for 11th with 83.6, and Boston is deadass last with only 75.8 attempts a night. That is a huuuuuge disparity.

Further, this tempo forces Rondo into a halfcourt offense far more frequently, where assists can be harder to come by. Note the Attempted Free Throws per game as well, with Boston 10th at 25.9 per game, Phoenix 11th at 25.1 and New Orleans last with 20.5.

Anyhow, long story short, Rondo may very well be the "true" assists leader in this context, and despite the oft-repeated and only half-true claims that he is living off of 3 HOFers (some are now living off him, IMO), I think Rondo would absolutely blow up on a half-decent running team to the tune of 12-13 assists per game.

Whatever. We are not about stats. We are the Boston Celtics. Just worth a mention.

[GuyClinch]

1) Nash is no more a dominator then Rondo, IMHO. Nash might benefit from the uptempo offense (in terms of shot attempts) but Rondo has better finishers then Nash. Paul OTOH does inflate his assist average with ball hogging..

2) Not sure uptempo offenses really up your assist numbers (per posession) - sometimes on the break your better off keeping it yourself and finishing - other times you give it up and that person makes another pass to a finisher. And still other times Rondo is not leading the break.

I am not saying your wrong - just that its not that clear cut without some kind of study. A guy like Chris Paul who plays alot of half court ball can up his assist numbers by pounding the ball till the last minute and then throwing it to someone for a bailout shot. Unlike the fast break situation that person has no choice but to shoot with the shot clock in effect.

FWIW I think Nash is the much better passer but Rondo's quickness gives him a ton of easy opportunties that Nash can't get.. Still Nash makes passes that come out of the blue and just wow you. Rondo racks up assists with "normal" looking passes but at the end of the night he has a ton of assists. Not sure which is really more impressive and like I said its because of Rondo's huge quickness advantage..

From Rondo's standpoint he will denied true greatness status till he does it with either a new team or a new cast, IMHO. All those arguments you make for him can be turned around against him..

[GreenDreamer]

The OP is correct in saying that Rondo's assists are harder to come by than many point guards. He simply doesn't have the ball in his hands enough, and so his standing as third in the league is all the more impressive. The system isn't exactly doing him a ton of favors, and he is missing many of the key components which help a player tally up assists

1. Alley oop finishers - Perk is ground bound and KG is hurting. Paul and Ray aren't going to be throwing them down either. The idea of pairing a young KG with Rajon is just downright scary. The alley oop is a bang bang play, which leads to many assists for a point guard who has the guys to do it.

2. An uptempo attack. It isn't just that it would be easier to get assists in the open court (which for Rondo it would be), but it is also the increased number of possessions. More possessions would lead to more assist opportunities.

3. A system built around the pick and roll in the half court - We run SOME pick and roll, but not nearly as many as team like the Suns and Hornets do. It isn't even close. For some reason Doc seems to think that pick and roll is only valuable if the ball handler or the pick setter is taking the shot. Watch a team like teh Suns. In most cases Nash is actually using the pick and roll to set up the other three for shots, with the pick and roll serving to suck defenders in.

The fact that Rondo averages as many as he does is simply amazing when you think about it. I thought that he would never manage more than 8 per game in this offense with the way it is set up, and that was with him at his peak. He very well could be the best pure passer in the game now.

Regarding the statement that Rondo's passes are "normal" I have to chuickle a bit. He makes it LOOK easy. They aren't, by and large. He will dive into the basket and snap out perfect passes to moving perimeter shooters which lead them into their shots with his LEFT hand. Not only are they on target, but they are usually laser beams. The pace he puts on off hand passes is just incredible. His fakes are first rate, and he knows how to use those huge mitts of his to put all kinds of crazy spin on the ball on his bounce passes. Some guys make basic passes look fancy, with unnecessary look aways. Then they are the guys like Rondo (and the list is teeny tiny) who make exteremely difficult passes look routine.

[UGA Hayes]

Actually you are partially right. Rondo does get a higher ratio of assist than Nash and Paul. But he is still not #1. In fact the leader by a country mile is interestingly Jason Kidd. Its an interesting phenomnon and in the past wouldn't necessarily speak that highly of Rondo b/c it would mean he is passing too much and not scoring enough. In my mind being a leader in assist is less important if its not accompanied by pretty efficient and voluminous scoring numbers.

[captain green]

Actually you are partially right. Rondo does get a higher ratio of assist than Nash and Paul. But he is still not #1. In fact the leader by a country mile is interestingly Jason Kidd. Its an interesting phenomnon and in the past wouldn't necessarily speak that highly of Rondo b/c it would mean he is passing too much and not scoring enough. In my mind being a leader in assist is less important if its not accompanied by pretty efficient and voluminous scoring numbers.

uh kidd is scoring 8.9 ppg and has 9.3 apg and shooting .422 compared to 14.3 ppg 9.8 and .529 shooting.

rondo 22 double doubles(DD) kidd 14

points and percentage = voluminous scoring numbers
so no kidd isn't #1 at all.
nor is rondo though its chris paul he has nash and rondo beat in every stat except steals he is .1 behind rondo, however due to him prolly not playing anymore it would in turn go to nash, but rondo could win it at end of season 4 points ahead in scoring and 2 in assists and 9 more (DD) everything else is rondo's

[Banks2Pierce]

Damn you Caveman. I want to dislike you after the Lakers slurping, but you make intelligent posts.

I've heard that CP3 and Rondo get inflated home assists numbers compared to other places. The Boston and NO guys are a lot more lenient with the assists they give out.

But to your point, statistics are being looked at differently all over the league. There's no use in listening if someone just says "the Celtics are the worst rebounding team in the league. they average 30 rebounds a game" That doesn't mean anything anymore. You have to go to the rebounding % to get any real use. And I wonder what Rondo is doing in terms of assists per possession. That has to be out there somewhere.

[Hemingway]

Idk that there can be a ""True Assist Leader" I mean its just a stat, your kind of bound the the rules of record keeping on it. You could make a claim with your data that he is the best passer however.

if that makes anysense and it probably does not.