Now that some time has passed. Do we miss Brewer?

Post #1 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:12 pm

I think enough games have gone by to get some idea how much we lost with the departure of Brewer.

If anyone wants to do some stastics that'd be great. I'd love to see how the change has affected the team. Point differential would probably be the easiest thing to measure, but, there are a ton of more advanced stats to look at as well.

But, for lazy folks like me, there is the eyeball test.

I think we missed Brewer when AK was injured. As we could have used the extra depth. But, with AK playing it seems that we miss him not at all. In fact, I think our offense is running better. Not sure about defense, but, I sure like what Matthews brings on that end.

Hikari · Post #2 » by **Hikari** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:01 pm

I miss his intensity at the begining of games. most of his plays where in the first and third Q's. Other than that not really. But I didn't expect to miss him.

markusj · Post #3 » by **markusj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:06 pm

We're 7-3 since the Brewer trade. We don't miss him.

DFO · Post #4 » by **DFO** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:09 pm

I think we all assumed that Brewer's minutes would be divided between Korver, Miles and Matthews, and that is exactly what happened. Since the trade Korver is averaging 11.7 more minutes per game, Matthews 6.6 more and CJ 5.5 more.

The following is a comparison between pre-trade and post-trade numbers for Korver, Miles and Matthews:

Category Pre-Trade Post Trade
Minutes 52.9 76.7 23.8 more/game
FG% 45.8% 47.2% 1.5% higher
3PT% 39.2% 48.4% 9.2% higher
FT% 77.7% 75.4% 2.3% lower
Points 21.9 31.1 9.2 more/game
Rebounds 5.0 8.6 3.6 more/game
Assists 3.6 5.7 2.1 more/game
Steals 1.43 3.20 1.77 more/game
Blocks 0.53 0.60 0.07 more/game
Turnovers 2.6 2.8 0.2 more/game

Other than the slight drop in free throw percentage for the trio, every other number is positive (I know that they are committing 0.2 more turnovers per game, but in 23.8 more minutes of playing time).

Brewer was a horrible shooter and despite his athleticism, a mediocre rebounder. The extra minutes for Korver/Miles/Matthews ensures that we have better spacing as they can all knock down the three point shot.

Not only do we not miss Brewer on the floor, but we also saved $5 million AND picked up a 1st Round Pick. Kudos KOC.

Post #5 » by **jazzfan1971** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:12 pm

Well, those numbers are misleading as you would expect more production with 23 more minutes.

What would be more interesting would be production per 48 from the swing spots.

Post #6 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:20 pm

If we add up the increase in productivity and subtract Brewers numbers what do we get?

BarneyGumble · Post #7 » by **BarneyGumble** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:20 pm

markusj · Post #8 » by **markusj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:24 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:Well, those numbers are misleading as you would expect more production with 23 more minutes.

What would be more interesting would be production per 48 from the swing spots.

That's a good point. However, the percentages (FG, FT, and 3 point) are all relevant stats. The trio's 3 point % is 9% higher. That's crazy! If the trio continues to shoot in the 40%+ range, we are in fantastic shape. It will spread the floor and open up the inside for Boozer, Millsap, and Williams.

Post #9 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:31 pm

The thing that was especially damning about Brewer's offense was that in addition to not having a jumpshot from 15 ft and out, he rarely attacked the basket. Both Matthews and Miles are showing the ability to get into the paint as well as hit jumpers. If they keep that up we won't miss Brewer at all. Brewer was great at getting open along the baseline, but that only worked against some teams. On the whole the Jazz appear much better offensively without him.

DFO · Post #10 » by **DFO** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:30 pm

In the first 53 games of the year Brewer/Korver/Miles and Matthews had played 3733 minutes. In the ten games since Brewer was traded Korver/Miles and Matthews have played a total of 767 minutes.

On a per 48 game basis the comparison for the wings are as follows (Before refers to Brewer/Miles/Korver/Matthews before trade):

Category Before After
Scoring 17.2 19.5
FGA 14.2 14.7
FG% 47% 47.2%
3PT 36% 48.4%
FT% 71.4% 75.4%
Rebounds 4.8 5.4
Assists 3.6 3.6
Steals 1.8 2.0
Blocks 0.4 0.4
Turnovers 1.9 1.8

The only real difference statistically can be traced to three point shooting, where our wings are knocking down 1.7 more threes per 48 minutes played since the trade. The wings shot 36% from 3 before the trade and 48.4% since the trade. All other numbers for all intents and purposes are the same.

We do not miss Brewer.

Post #11 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:40 pm

Yes, Brewer clearly was an offensive liability. Shooting guards must shoot. I feel guilty saying we don't miss him since he's a likable guy and individually talented, but the team is working better with the defenders having to respect the SGs shot.

Reckless · Post #12 » by **Reckless** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:30 pm

I miss his athleticism, you can't teach that

Post #13 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:44 pm

ut_jazz wrote:I miss his athleticism, you can't teach that

Well, you can... the problem is some guys will never learn it.

"No, not like that at all. Jump HIGHER."

Post #14 » by **FJS** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:53 pm

We are shooting a lot of 3 and making at least 50% of them.... I think the problem is if one of our 3 guy who can play sg are injuried.

outerspacefella · Post #15 » by **outerspacefella** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:26 am

If our wings continue to shoot the basketball like this the Jazz are dangerous, very dangerous. Now we need a little bit of nastiness and our young big fella logging some minutes.

dr0welf · Post #16 » by **dr0welf** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:44 am

FJS wrote:We are shooting a lot of 3 and making at least 50% of them.... I think the problem is if one of our 3 guy who can play sg are injuried.

I don't think this is an issue because we have multiple players that can play the SG if needed. You can run a 2 PG system or AK can play the 2 spot. So I really think we are still covered even with injury to one of those 3 SG's.

Hopefully injury is not a problem for the rest of the year.

Racer X · Post #17 » by **Racer X** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:49 am

I think we have found our offense the last few games, but dont forget how TERRIBLE our offense was the first handful of games without Brewer. Say what you will about the guy's shooting, but he had a talent for finding holes in the defense for layups. I think it was a bigger part of our offense than people realized. However, the 3 other guys have stepped up and have found their places and the offense has been phenomenal.

Come playoff time I worry about Wes though. I think teams will dare him to shoot and he does not have my trust yet.

Deron has had more room to operate it seems like though, because defenses are not sagging as much.

ColdBlue · Post #18 » by **ColdBlue** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:32 am

I miss Brew's style of play and his defense. We were really rolling there at the trade deadline and we lost a lot of that mojo... granted AK's injury was the primary factor. We were really picking teams apart there... good teams. I haven't really seen the same ball movement since the trade, but there were glimpses of it against the Pistons (speaking of which... what the hell happened to the Pistons... I didn't realize how far they have fallen)

Defensively I think Wes is playing pretty solid but CJ and to a lesser extent Korver are getting burned pretty regularly off the dribble. The good thing is that they are all making up for it offensively. If CJ can become a little more consistent and Wes keeps hitting those open treys and finishing around the basket, then we will be fine. Korver is lighting it up too... we can't expect this kind of production night in and night out, but if it stays somewhat consistent we can contend.

I still hate the trade and what it represents about how this FO conducts business. Most of you guys don't quite grasp the underlying aspects of it, but whatever... keep waving your Jazz flag... it's time for a playoff push.

Neon Black · Post #19 » by **Neon Black** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:11 am

DFO wrote:In the first 53 games of the year Brewer/Korver/Miles and Matthews had played 3733 minutes. In the ten games since Brewer was traded Korver/Miles and Matthews have played a total of 767 minutes.

On a per 48 game basis the comparison for the wings are as follows (Before refers to Brewer/Miles/Korver/Matthews before trade):

Category Before After
Scoring 17.2 19.5
FGA 14.2 14.7
FG% 47% 47.2%
3PT 36% 48.4%
FT% 71.4% 75.4%
Rebounds 4.8 5.4
Assists 3.6 3.6
Steals 1.8 2.0
Blocks 0.4 0.4
Turnovers 1.9 1.8

The only real difference statistically can be traced to three point shooting, where our wings are knocking down 1.7 more threes per 48 minutes played since the trade. The wings shot 36% from 3 before the trade and 48.4% since the trade. All other numbers for all intents and purposes are the same.

We do not miss Brewer.

The thing I'm surprised by is that their SPG didn't plummet or at least go down. Brewer had such a knack for interrupting passing lanes for fast-break steals.

I think we're moving the ball better on offense as well; Brewer was really 2 dimensional offensively. He made great cuts and...well that's about it. The teams ability to drain the 3 as of late has been killer.

Neon Black · Post #20 » by **Neon Black** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:15 am

ColdBlue wrote:I still hate the trade and what it represents about how this FO conducts business. Most of you guys don't quite grasp the underlying aspects of it, but whatever.

I'd definitely have to agree with this...even if we do end up better w/out Brewer, it's not like the FO did it to get better...and it makes you wonder when they'll make a similar penny-pinching move that ends up hurting us