Bulls vs Raptors 7pm CT Feb. 28 2025

[WindyCityBorn]

I wouldn't call what Toronto has assembled talent . It's Scottie Barnes and that's about it .

So you're really saying Brandon Ingram, Quickley, and RJ Barrett don't count as talented? Their draft status, contracts and stats would disagree.

This season:
Barrett 21, 6, and 6 33 minutes 35% 3pt
Ingram 22, 6, and 5 33 minutes 37% 3pt
Quickley 17, 3 and 5 in 28 minutes 38% 3pt

Barnes 20, 8 and 6 in 35 minutes on 27% 3pt

How is Barnes a tier above the other guys?

We would LOVE to have 3 guys 25 and under, and one 27 year old, putting up those numbers. And they all have good size and athleticism.

I wouldn’t. Not on those contracts. That team is cooked.

[sco]

A moral loss. I was comfortable thinking we'd be losing all game. Ugh. That said, good to see Ayo and Smith back, both looked rusty.

Finally showed you Giddey lovers that he's been a mirage. That fraud failed to score 20 or get a trip dub.

Collins, who is a middling player on both ends, showed what a difference being rid of Vuc will mean.

Ball was invisibly awesome on both ends. I really like his pairing with Giddey.

Huerter is also competent...with his 3pt shooting is back on track, he is a real weapon, and not a bad ball handler or defender.

If Matas wasn't having a rookie game, we probably would have won big. His defense has fallen off of late.

[Infinity2152]

I wouldn't call what Toronto has assembled talent . It's Scottie Barnes and that's about it .

So you're really saying Brandon Ingram, Quickley, and RJ Barrett don't count as talented? Their draft status, contracts and stats would disagree.

This season:
Barrett 21, 6, and 6 33 minutes 35% 3pt
Ingram 22, 6, and 5 33 minutes 37% 3pt
Quickley 17, 3 and 5 in 28 minutes 38% 3pt

Barnes 20, 8 and 6 in 35 minutes on 27% 3pt

How is Barnes a tier above the other guys?

We would LOVE to have 3 guys 25 and under, and one 27 year old, putting up those numbers. And they all have good size and athleticism.

I wouldn’t. Not on those contracts. That team is cooked.

Not talking about contract. Would you say Barnes, Ingram and Quickley are not considered talented NBA players? Do you think any one of them is a negative trade asset at that contract? Salary just shows what the market says their value is. He said they have no talent besides Barnes. Their problems are deeper than not enough talent or bad contracts.

And it's cool if you wouldn't on those contracts. I would. Then trade Ingram/filler for Giddey and Vuc or Collins. Add a young center and have a great young team. Giddey, Quickley, Barrett, Barnes, Vuc. FA/Draft pick/Trade Center. Why would you worry about contracts when most of the guys are 25 and under?

[Red8911]

I wouldn't call what Toronto has assembled talent . It's Scottie Barnes and that's about it .

They actually have a pretty solid team on paper. Not sure why they are in the position they are currently in. Should have easily been 7-8 seed, maybe they’ll be better with Ingram next year.

[Red8911]

Another fake win under out belt. Two games you need to lose this year was 76ers and Raptors and ofcourse you win both.

I beg you Bulls fans, stop going to games and stop watching this franchise on tv. If you really wanna watch it because for some reason you like this, you watch streams from you know what sites. You can do it.

Bulls are obviously trying to tank. At least the front office wants to.Zach is out of here.Vuc has been out over a minor injury that he can most definitely play through. They held Ayo out longer.

You hear Stacey and Adam talk about a high draft pick, playing young guys and losing all the time.They are clearly instructed to say these things to fans during games. It’s not a coincidence that they keep bringing it up all game long.

Now when playing against terrible teams like Toronto or 76ers what are you going to do rest the whole team? You can’t do that. Players and coaches will always try to win, besides they don’t give a sht where the Bulls draft in the off season.

[DKB333]

I wouldn't call what Toronto has assembled talent . It's Scottie Barnes and that's about it .

They actually have a pretty solid team on paper. Not sure why they are in the position they are currently in. Should have easily been 7-8 seed, maybe they’ll be better with Ingram next year.

Clutch losss by the Raptors, not sure how they pulled that off. To answer your question regarding the Raptors they have had quite a few injuries to key players and played a very hard schedule to start the season. They did plan on tanking this season anyway, so the injuries and tough schedule were probably a blessing in disguise. Next year with Quickley/Barrett/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl and hopefully a high lottery pick and young bench with upside the goal should be to finish top 6. I was pretty impressed with Giddey. What do you think his new contract looks like? Does he get 30M a year or is that too steep?

[cocktailswith_2short]

I just don't think highly of Toronto in general they don't seem to be in a position greater than our own which is dreadful.

[Infinity2152]

As Bulls fans, you'd think Toronto's biggest problems would be clear, lol. How much better did our team play when Ball started when we had Lavine, Debo, and Vuc? Replace Ball with Giddey in that same lineup, playoff team. No playmaker, our talent looks bad. We have Vuc as paint protection, they have Poetl. Young, unbalanced teams usually don't win much in the NBA, especially with no floor leader. Lot of second and third options, no first option.

Barnes, Barrett, Quickley, Ingram all have good value, but nobody's a number 1. They use one or two in a superstar trade, they're instantly much better. Say you swap Jalen Brunson for one (I know never happen . Knicks are losing a LOT more and Raptors are winning a lot more.

[Red8911]

I wouldn't call what Toronto has assembled talent . It's Scottie Barnes and that's about it .

They actually have a pretty solid team on paper. Not sure why they are in the position they are currently in. Should have easily been 7-8 seed, maybe they’ll be better with Ingram next year.

Clutch losss by the Raptors, not sure how they pulled that off. To answer your question regarding the Raptors they have had quite a few injuries to key players and played a very hard schedule to start the season. They did plan on tanking this season anyway, so the injuries and tough schedule were probably a blessing in disguise. Next year with Quickley/Barrett/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl and hopefully a high lottery pick and young bench with upside the goal should be to finish top 6. I was pretty impressed with Giddey. What do you think his new contract looks like? Does he get 30M a year or is that too steep?

Yeah Raptors should be a lot better next seasons. On Giddey there’s a whole thread discussing his next contact. He reportedly wanted 30 originally but bulls will wait for the market to dictate his price since he’s a RFA.

No one really wants to over pay for him and hope its in the 20s range but personally I think the Bulls will match as long as it’s not a crazy number.

[DKB333]

They actually have a pretty solid team on paper. Not sure why they are in the position they are currently in. Should have easily been 7-8 seed, maybe they’ll be better with Ingram next year.

Clutch losss by the Raptors, not sure how they pulled that off. To answer your question regarding the Raptors they have had quite a few injuries to key players and played a very hard schedule to start the season. They did plan on tanking this season anyway, so the injuries and tough schedule were probably a blessing in disguise. Next year with Quickley/Barrett/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl and hopefully a high lottery pick and young bench with upside the goal should be to finish top 6. I was pretty impressed with Giddey. What do you think his new contract looks like? Does he get 30M a year or is that too steep?

Yeah Raptors should be a lot better next seasons. On Giddey there’s a whole thread discussing his next contact. He reportedly wanted 30 originally but bulls will wait for the market to dictate his price since he’s a RFA.

No one really wants to over pay for him and hope its in the 20s range but personally I think the Bulls will match as long as it’s not a crazy number.

I do not see a team offering him anything too crazy or anything. At least the Bulls are in full control if they want him and at what price considering he is a RFA. Happy to see Ball out there hoopin again.

[Stratmaster]

I said on here. Not the general fan base.

I would be pumped about the play-in if we had any good players and a head coach that knew what he was doing. But the 3 best players the team had are all gone with nothing in return other than Giddey, and Billy is still here.

You think Heat fans were pumped about the play-in?

That's a pretty pessimistic look at our current squad. Would argue Vuc and Lonzo Ball could either/both slot in as 2 of our best 3 players, and they're still here. We got Giddey for trading a bench player. We got a likely lottery first round pick back plus our future picks unlocked for Lavine, plus Collins and Huerter, that's not nothing. Collins is looking good and Huerter's picking it up. As for no good players, Matas, Coby, Smith, Ball, Vucevic are good players depending on what metric you're using. Ayo's been a good player, and could recover. We have probably one contract that could be considered bad, and that's only $18 mill. Huerter and Colins TBD.

Billy should be here. Purpose of a coach is to get the team wins, and not a lot of coaches getting many more wins out of this team with the injuries and poor defensive lineups the last few years and your best playmaker is Debo. You try starting White, Lavine, Debo and Vuc and trying to get your team to stay in games defensively, lmao! Every coach gets their decisions micromanaged by fans, wins are what counts. A team being at/near .500 with maybe the worst defensive starting lineup in the league has to be tough.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Raptors have nobody with creativity on their roster. I'm glad we have Giddey and Lonzo.

[Stratmaster]

I said on here. Not the general fan base.

I would be pumped about the play-in if we had any good players and a head coach that knew what he was doing. But the 3 best players the team had are all gone with nothing in return other than Giddey, and Billy is still here.

You think Heat fans were pumped about the play-in?

That's a pretty pessimistic look at our current squad. Would argue Vuc and Lonzo Ball could either/both slot in as 2 of our best 3 players, and they're still here. We got Giddey for trading a bench player. We got a likely lottery first round pick back plus our future picks unlocked for Lavine, plus Collins and Huerter, that's not nothing. Collins is looking good and Huerter's picking it up. As for no good players, Matas, Coby, Smith, Ball, Vucevic are good players depending on what metric you're using. Ayo's been a good player, and could recover. We have probably one contract that could be considered bad, and that's only $18 mill. Huerter and Colins TBD.

Billy should be here. Purpose of a coach is to get the team wins, and not a lot of coaches getting many more wins out of this team with the injuries and poor defensive lineups the last few years and your best playmaker is Debo. You try starting White, Lavine, Debo and Vuc and trying to get your team to stay in games defensively, lmao! Every coach gets their decisions micromanaged by fans, wins are what counts. A team being at/near .500 with maybe the worst defensive starting lineup in the league has to be tough.

There is no universe where Lavine, Demar and Caruso weren't the 3 best players on this team. I would agree that Ball might fall in there but he hasn't been available.

Matas may evolve into a quality starter. I think he will. But he isn't now. Coby never has been. Ayo never has been although you might get away with starting him in a lineup that has 4 great players around him. Vuc is done here.

This team has underperformed expectations the entire time Billy has been here. He has mismanaged players. He has mismanaged lineups and rotations. He has mismanaged game situations. The team has never had a functioning offensive system compared to other teams coaching.

I have asked this question multiple times and never get an answer. Name one thing that has shown progress as Billy's tenure here has passed. One facet of the game. Hell, even one player who has blossomed under Billy's coaching.

Billy's solution is "we need to try harder". I guess every player on the team just is apathetic and doesn't give effort. If that is true, who is responsible for that from a high level, holistic perspective?

The Bulls have underperformed every season Billy has been at the helm.

[WindyCityBorn]

So you're really saying Brandon Ingram, Quickley, and RJ Barrett don't count as talented? Their draft status, contracts and stats would disagree.

This season:
Barrett 21, 6, and 6 33 minutes 35% 3pt
Ingram 22, 6, and 5 33 minutes 37% 3pt
Quickley 17, 3 and 5 in 28 minutes 38% 3pt

Barnes 20, 8 and 6 in 35 minutes on 27% 3pt

How is Barnes a tier above the other guys?

We would LOVE to have 3 guys 25 and under, and one 27 year old, putting up those numbers. And they all have good size and athleticism.

I wouldn’t. Not on those contracts. That team is cooked.

Not talking about contract. Would you say Barnes, Ingram and Quickley are not considered talented NBA players? Do you think any one of them is a negative trade asset at that contract? Salary just shows what the market says their value is. He said they have no talent besides Barnes. Their problems are deeper than not enough talent or bad contracts.

And it's cool if you wouldn't on those contracts. I would. Then trade Ingram/filler for Giddey and Vuc or Collins. Add a young center and have a great young team. Giddey, Quickley, Barrett, Barnes, Vuc. FA/Draft pick/Trade Center. Why would you worry about contracts when most of the guys are 25 and under?

I completely disagree about their contracts not being an issue. And I would not trade Giddey for any player ok that roster except maybe Barnes. But he is really overpaid as a tinge all-star talent on max contract. Ingram is Zach but a lesser scorer. Hard pass.

[CROBulls]

Raptors have nobody with creativity on their roster. I'm glad we have Giddey and Lonzo.

By design. They actually want to pick high in draft to get good player. Your level (Bulls level) is Giddey and Lonzo. And this is their maximum. Win against top 7 worst teams, lose rest of games. Honey honey play in spot. And pick infinite number of times between 7th and 10th for next 3000 decades.

[JimmyButler21]

Good news is Bulls should lose next 5

The bad news is it doesn’t matter anymore. The damage has been done. People can pretend that teams don’t tank but we see it every year. There are things you can do to help your team lose more games. The Bulls play their best 5 at the end of the game and sit their rookie.

[Infinity2152]

I would be pumped about the play-in if we had any good players and a head coach that knew what he was doing. But the 3 best players the team had are all gone with nothing in return other than Giddey, and Billy is still here.

You think Heat fans were pumped about the play-in?

That's a pretty pessimistic look at our current squad. Would argue Vuc and Lonzo Ball could either/both slot in as 2 of our best 3 players, and they're still here. We got Giddey for trading a bench player. We got a likely lottery first round pick back plus our future picks unlocked for Lavine, plus Collins and Huerter, that's not nothing. Collins is looking good and Huerter's picking it up. As for no good players, Matas, Coby, Smith, Ball, Vucevic are good players depending on what metric you're using. Ayo's been a good player, and could recover. We have probably one contract that could be considered bad, and that's only $18 mill. Huerter and Colins TBD.

Billy should be here. Purpose of a coach is to get the team wins, and not a lot of coaches getting many more wins out of this team with the injuries and poor defensive lineups the last few years and your best playmaker is Debo. You try starting White, Lavine, Debo and Vuc and trying to get your team to stay in games defensively, lmao! Every coach gets their decisions micromanaged by fans, wins are what counts. A team being at/near .500 with maybe the worst defensive starting lineup in the league has to be tough.

There is no universe where Lavine, Demar and Caruso weren't the 3 best players on this team. I would agree that Ball might fall in there but he hasn't been available.

Matas may evolve into a quality starter. I think he will. But he isn't now. Coby never has been. Ayo never has been although you might get away with starting him in a lineup that has 4 great players around him. Vuc is done here.

This team has underperformed expectations the entire time Billy has been here. He has mismanaged players. He has mismanaged lineups and rotations. He has mismanaged game situations. The team has never had a functioning offensive system compared to other teams coaching.

I have asked this question multiple times and never get an answer. Name one thing that has shown progress as Billy's tenure here has passed. One facet of the game. Hell, even one player who has blossomed under Billy's coaching.

Billy's solution is "we need to try harder". I guess every player on the team just is apathetic and doesn't give effort. If that is true, who is responsible for that from a high level, holistic perspective?

The Bulls have underperformed every season Billy has been at the helm.

Caruso and Vuc stats with the Bull same three seasons:
Season 1: 7pts, 4 rbs, 4 assists, 18/41 starts Vuc 17.6 pts, 11 rebounds, 3.2 assists 73/73 starts
Season 2: 5.6 pts, 2.9 rbs, 2.9 assists 36/67 starts Vuc 17.6 pts, 11 rebounds, 3.2 assists 82/82 starts
Season 3: 10pts, 3.8 rbs, 3.5 assists 57/71 starts Vuc 18 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 3.3 assists 74/76 starts

In no way, shape, form or fashion has Caruso been a better player than Vuc. Vuc is a perennial starter, Caruso is a perennial bench player. In no universe has Caruso been considered better than Vuc, or even in All-Star consideration. Caruso's at 6pts, 2.7 rbs, 2.7 assists this season. He's a 6'5 PG/SG who doesn't score, pass or rebound, just defend.

Coby has blossomed under Billy. Much better than he was. The only young player besides Pat and Ayo to get real minutes, and Ayo has performed very well at multiple times, especially for a second round draft pick. Coby: 13, 3.5 rbs, 2.7 assists rookie year to 19.1 pts, 4.5 rbs, 4.6 assists on better shooting last year. Was there some way he could give Coby longer arms, make him more consistent shooting? Or be a PG in the first place? Can't start at SG with Zach here.

Giddey looks better this year.
Matas is looking better.
Zach, Debo and Vucevic were too old to be "blossoming", but Zach and Vuc shooting career highs this season.

Pat Will is the only young player drafted in the top 10 that hasn't really developed. Likelihood of success for guys at Terry and Phillips draft position is low, anyway. And we had a team full of vets, no room to play them. Is that Billy's fault?

Bulls have arguably overperformed every year Billy has been at the helm.
Starting PG still getting paid, out for three years.
Starting PF played 17, 82, and 43 games last three years. And that guy is Pat Will. No real starting PF for 3 years.
Starting SG played 67, 77, 25 games last three years
Super valuable Caruso played 41, 67, 71

Bulls record last three years: 46, 40, 39. Are you saying these were 50+ win teams, and Billy under coached them?

[Dan Z]

Good news is Bulls should lose next 5

The bad news is it doesn’t matter anymore. The damage has been done. People can pretend that teams don’t tank but we see it every year. There are things you can do to help your team lose more games. The Bulls play their best 5 at the end of the game and sit their rookie.

I agree. We're probably going to end up right where we are: the 8th pick. I don't see anyone below the Bulls in the standings catching up (Toronto...maybe but that's a long shot).

The tanking teams understand that they need to find elite talent and are doing what they can to try and get one. Does AK not see that the Bulls need to find that too? Or does he think it's not necessary (due to his 9-11 solid players comment)?

When we look back on this season will we remember anything about it? IMata's rookie year and Giddey's improvement? It's good that he improved, but the team still needs more talent (plus his improvement means a bigger contract this off season).

[Infinity2152]

Good news is Bulls should lose next 5

The bad news is it doesn’t matter anymore. The damage has been done. People can pretend that teams don’t tank but we see it every year. There are things you can do to help your team lose more games. The Bulls play their best 5 at the end of the game and sit their rookie.

I agree. We're probably going to end up right where we are: the 8th pick. I don't see anyone below the Bulls in the standings catching up (Toronto...maybe but that's a long shot).

The tanking teams understand that they need to find elite talent and are doing what they can to try and get one. Does AK not see that the Bulls need to find that too? Or does he think it's not necessary (due to his 9-11 solid players comment)?

When we look back on this season will we remember anything about it? IMata's rookie year and Giddey's improvement? It's good that he improved, but the team still needs more talent (plus his improvement means a bigger contract this off season).

What exactly was he supposed to do, other than let Derozan leave and put Vuc and Lavine on the block, ending up with a Lavine trade? The only thing I could see blaming AK for this year is failing to trade Vuc, and he tried. Traded our best defensive player before the season. We all know how hard it was to move Lavine, and he put him on the block last season. Trade Ball for scraps? Screw that.

White, Lavine, Giddey, Pat (when he plays), Vucevic already looks like the worst starting defensive lineup in the league, lmao! This team should be lower in the standings right now, just way too many crappy teams. Like no way we're supposed to be ahead of Philly and Toronto with this roster, barring major injuries on their rosters. Hornets, Spurs, Pelicans and Jazz have more talent on paper.

Ironic the biggest complaints for him this season is not getting rid of Zach and Vucevic fast enough because they're contributing too much to winning! Two contracts thought to be unmovable in the first place with negative value considered wildly overpriced. Not sure how much a Vuc trade would have even helped, considering how Collins is looking. Who saw that coming?

Our team cap situation looks a ton better going into the off season. Lavine's contract gone, cap space if we don't re-sign Tre Jones, and Vuc is expiring/soon to be gone. We have to pay Giddey, but the older guy we traded to get him just got 4yrs/$81 mill. Thank God we didn't do that.

[Dan Z]

The bad news is it doesn’t matter anymore. The damage has been done. People can pretend that teams don’t tank but we see it every year. There are things you can do to help your team lose more games. The Bulls play their best 5 at the end of the game and sit their rookie.

I agree. We're probably going to end up right where we are: the 8th pick. I don't see anyone below the Bulls in the standings catching up (Toronto...maybe but that's a long shot).

The tanking teams understand that they need to find elite talent and are doing what they can to try and get one. Does AK not see that the Bulls need to find that too? Or does he think it's not necessary (due to his 9-11 solid players comment)?

When we look back on this season will we remember anything about it? IMata's rookie year and Giddey's improvement? It's good that he improved, but the team still needs more talent (plus his improvement means a bigger contract this off season).

What exactly was he supposed to do, other than let Derozan leave and put Vuc and Lavine on the block, ending up with a Lavine trade? The only thing I could see blaming AK for this year is failing to trade Vuc, and he tried. Traded our best defensive player before the season. We all know how hard it was to move Lavine, and he put him on the block last season. Trade Ball for scraps? Screw that.

White, Lavine, Giddey, Pat (when he plays), Vucevic already looks like the worst starting defensive lineup in the league, lmao! This team should be lower in the standings right now, just way too many crappy teams. Like no way we're supposed to be ahead of Philly and Toronto with this roster, barring major injuries on their rosters. Hornets, Spurs, Pelicans and Jazz have more talent on paper.

Ironic the biggest complaints for him this season is not getting rid of Zach and Vucevic fast enough because they're contributing too much to winning! Two contracts thought to be unmovable in the first place with negative value considered wildly overpriced. Not sure how much a Vuc trade would have even helped, considering how Collins is looking. Who saw that coming?

Our team cap situation looks a ton better going into the off season. Lavine's contract gone, cap space if we don't re-sign Tre Jones, and Vuc is expiring/soon to be gone. We have to pay Giddey, but the older guy we traded to get him just got 4yrs/$81 mill. Thank God we didn't do that.

What are they going to do with that cap space?

What AK should have done is trade players earlier than he did. He often waits until a player either has no value or has little value at all.

I bet he could've got more for Caruso had he traded him a half season sooner (which is something many people here suggested at that time). Had he traded Zach sooner (meaning before last year, which is when they first put him on the trade block) then maybe something decent could've been worked out.

is he going to do the same thing with Coby and Ayo? Just wait it out and then their value goes down.

It's been obvious for 2 and a half seasons that this team is going nowhere. You could say even longer, but I'm willing to give him some leeway because I can understand waiting to see the status on Lonzo's injury (meaning mid-season the year after he got hurt...making it a full year).