Vucevic Trade Watch 2025

[dougthonus]

It should be noted that for all his deficiencies as a player Vuc is one of the veteran leaders on the team and a consummate professional. There's value in that.

Not saying you don't take a good deal for him but to just give him away in a lateral move would be counterproductive.

I don't think he's a bad locker room guy or anything, but he pouts on the court when he doesn't get shots and doesn't hustle consistently on either side of the ball. Definitely not a great lead by example guy in terms of instilling good habits on the court. That said, he did seem better 2nd half of the year.

[pipfan]

I'd LOVE to start Collins and bring Vuc off the bench for 20 minutes. He's an awesome backup.
Do my Port pick for Dieng/#24 (OKC saves $, roster spots and gets a future pick)
Use #12 on Newell, let's say

Ball/Ayo
White/Huerter
Giddey/PWill
Matas/Dieng
Collins/Vuc
Terry, Newell, Phillips, Jsmith, #24 deep bench
Buyout JCarter

See where that goes

[League Circles]

Given we have few roster spots, my guess is we are more likely to keep Vooch till the trade deadline.

Then basically waive him if we cant trade him.

I wonder how much of a discount Vuc might take in a buyout? I think there would be a ton of takers at tax-payer MLE $, which is around $6M. I doubt anyone would offer him a full MLE deal.

So if he took a buyout at $15M. That may be our best option.

I'd rather have him as an option for on-court value, little as it is, and trade filler, than buy him out to save a little money. If I'm buying someone out for the purpose of creating a roster spot, I'd buy out Phillips first.

[sco]

Given we have few roster spots, my guess is we are more likely to keep Vooch till the trade deadline.

Then basically waive him if we cant trade him.

I wonder how much of a discount Vuc might take in a buyout? I think there would be a ton of takers at tax-payer MLE $, which is around $6M. I doubt anyone would offer him a full MLE deal.

So if he took a buyout at $15M. That may be our best option.

I'd rather have him as an option for on-court value, little as it is, and trade filler, than buy him out to save a little money. If I'm buying someone out for the purpose of creating a roster spot, I'd buy out Phillips first.

I see Vuc as maybe the #1 addition through subtraction to this particular team possible. He is exactly the wrong C for the way that the Bulls are constructed to play. My point is that I'd rather just let Vuc go and get $6M than take back equal salary with some other middling overpaid player.

More to your point, if there was a guy to buyout, it would be Carter...he could likely get a vet min deal somewhere and cut his deal in half in the buyout.

[League Circles]

I wonder how much of a discount Vuc might take in a buyout? I think there would be a ton of takers at tax-payer MLE $, which is around $6M. I doubt anyone would offer him a full MLE deal.

So if he took a buyout at $15M. That may be our best option.

I'd rather have him as an option for on-court value, little as it is, and trade filler, than buy him out to save a little money. If I'm buying someone out for the purpose of creating a roster spot, I'd buy out Phillips first.

I see Vuc as maybe the #1 addition through subtraction to this particular team possible. He is exactly the wrong C for the way that the Bulls are constructed to play. My point is that I'd rather just let Vuc go and get $6M than take back equal salary with some other middling overpaid player.

More to your point, if there was a guy to buyout, it would be Carter...he could likely get a vet min deal somewhere and cut his deal in half in the buyout.

Yeah Vuc could be addition by subtraction, but depends on how Billy might use him.

Given our lack of 3 point shooting, I'd actually prefer to keep Carter over Phillips. Depends on who we draft though. If we draft a C at 12 and can't trade anyone for whatever reason, and Billy doesn't think he'll give Smith a long look backing up Matas at the 4, then I'd definitely be OK buying out Vuc.

[Michael Jackson]

A GS trade makes too much sense.

Maybe Kuminga would take a one year inflated deal to prove himself in our high pace offense.

Kuminga is going to want to cash in more than a one year deal likely. Being RFA GS has some say but a team that offers the most logical trade and Kuminga is willing to sign with is the key, will the Bulls commit? They make sense but it won't be a one year deal

[Michael Jackson]

It should be noted that for all his deficiencies as a player Vuc is one of the veteran leaders on the team and a consummate professional. There's value in that.

Not saying you don't take a good deal for him but to just give him away in a lateral move would be counterproductive.

I don't think he's a bad locker room guy or anything, but he pouts on the court when he doesn't get shots and doesn't hustle consistently on either side of the ball. Definitely not a great lead by example guy in terms of instilling good habits on the court. That said, he did seem better 2nd half of the year.

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

[Tetlak]

I'd rather have him as an option for on-court value, little as it is, and trade filler, than buy him out to save a little money. If I'm buying someone out for the purpose of creating a roster spot, I'd buy out Phillips first.

I see Vuc as maybe the #1 addition through subtraction to this particular team possible. He is exactly the wrong C for the way that the Bulls are constructed to play. My point is that I'd rather just let Vuc go and get $6M than take back equal salary with some other middling overpaid player.

More to your point, if there was a guy to buyout, it would be Carter...he could likely get a vet min deal somewhere and cut his deal in half in the buyout.

Yeah Vuc could be addition by subtraction, but depends on how Billy might use him.

Given our lack of 3 point shooting, I'd actually prefer to keep Carter over Phillips. Depends on who we draft though. If we draft a C at 12 and can't trade anyone for whatever reason, and Billy doesn't think he'll give Smith a long look backing up Matas at the 4, then I'd definitely be OK buying out Vuc.

This is absolutely wild to me. We're in a rebuild and you'd rather keep a 5th string career journeyman PG than a developmental wing who is athletic and has a ceiling as a 2 way player?

[League Circles]

I see Vuc as maybe the #1 addition through subtraction to this particular team possible. He is exactly the wrong C for the way that the Bulls are constructed to play. My point is that I'd rather just let Vuc go and get $6M than take back equal salary with some other middling overpaid player.

More to your point, if there was a guy to buyout, it would be Carter...he could likely get a vet min deal somewhere and cut his deal in half in the buyout.

Yeah Vuc could be addition by subtraction, but depends on how Billy might use him.

Given our lack of 3 point shooting, I'd actually prefer to keep Carter over Phillips. Depends on who we draft though. If we draft a C at 12 and can't trade anyone for whatever reason, and Billy doesn't think he'll give Smith a long look backing up Matas at the 4, then I'd definitely be OK buying out Vuc.

This is absolutely wild to me. We're in a rebuild and you'd rather keep a 5th string career journeyman PG than a developmental wing who is athletic and has a ceiling as a 2 way player?

From my perspective, Carter is currently our 3rd string "1" behind Coby and Ayo. I think for insurance purposes you can't count guys as playing multiple positions in this context (even though obviously a guy like Ball can play the 1).

I'm not high in Phillips, partly because of how high I am on Matas. I don't call them wings, I call them "4s".

If Carter is the 5th string "1", then Phillips is at very best the 5th string "4" behind Matas, Smith, Giddey and Patrick.

Also factoring into this preference is that I think there is a higher chance of drafting frontcourt guy who does a lot of what Phillips does, but better, than there is that the Bulls draft a shooter type, so I actually see Carter as more likely to help us win this year, and I don't want either on our team beyond next season.

[Chi town]

It should be noted that for all his deficiencies as a player Vuc is one of the veteran leaders on the team and a consummate professional. There's value in that.

Not saying you don't take a good deal for him but to just give him away in a lateral move would be counterproductive.

I don't think he's a bad locker room guy or anything, but he pouts on the court when he doesn't get shots and doesn't hustle consistently on either side of the ball. Definitely not a great lead by example guy in terms of instilling good habits on the court. That said, he did seem better 2nd half of the year.

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

[WindyCityBorn]

The reason to trade Vuc is because he hinders development of younger players. With Vuc gone Buzelis gets to be the second or third. We all get play two younger centers more that might actually have a future with the team.

I don’t want him helping us win and I don’t want him taking 15 shots away from other players.

Seems to me to be a pretty dicey argument that Vuc and Buzelis are competing for the same minutes. Huerter played 30 minutes a game and Collins played 20, so those guys also are taking minutes from other players and probably aren't here for the long term.

And don't worry, Vuc isn't helping us win games.

Again, I don't care if we trade him, but we're not getting any value back and he's gone next year. Just shouldn't be viewed as a huge factor IMO.

They aren’t competing for minutes. They are competing for shots. Vuc will remain an offensive priority until he is gone.

[League Circles]

Could Vuc and Ayo be packaged to return any of these guys?

DeAndre Ayton
John Collins
Khris Middleton
CJ McCollum
Anfernee Simmons
Terry Rozier

If so I'd probably do it.

[TheJordanRule]

Yeah Vuc could be addition by subtraction, but depends on how Billy might use him.

Given our lack of 3 point shooting, I'd actually prefer to keep Carter over Phillips. Depends on who we draft though. If we draft a C at 12 and can't trade anyone for whatever reason, and Billy doesn't think he'll give Smith a long look backing up Matas at the 4, then I'd definitely be OK buying out Vuc.

This is absolutely wild to me. We're in a rebuild and you'd rather keep a 5th string career journeyman PG than a developmental wing who is athletic and has a ceiling as a 2 way player?

From my perspective, Carter is currently our 3rd string "1" behind Coby and Ayo. I think for insurance purposes you can't count guys as playing multiple positions in this context (even though obviously a guy like Ball can play the 1).

I'm not high in Phillips, partly because of how high I am on Matas. I don't call them wings, I call them "4s".

If Carter is the 5th string "1", then Phillips is at very best the 5th string "4" behind Matas, Smith, Giddey and Patrick.

Also factoring into this preference is that I think there is a higher chance of drafting frontcourt guy who does a lot of what Phillips does, but better, than there is that the Bulls draft a shooter type, so I actually see Carter as more likely to help us win this year, and I don't want either on our team beyond next season.

I remember previous discussions with you, in which you were right and I was wrong, brother (about Zach and his contractual value). That said, including Giddey at 4 doesn't seem accurate to me, although I'll buy Smith as a 4. I view Phillips as a 3. IK his shooting doesn't scream 3, but everything else about his game does.

[sco]

Could Vuc and Ayo be packaged to return any of these guys?

DeAndre Ayton
John Collins
Khris Middleton
CJ McCollum
Anfernee Simmons
Terry Rozier

If so I'd probably do it.

What's the appeal of Ayton or Rozier? Unless we are getting draft capital back too. Ayton is Vuc without a 3. Rozier is a chucker.

[MGB8]

Yeah Vuc could be addition by subtraction, but depends on how Billy might use him.

Given our lack of 3 point shooting, I'd actually prefer to keep Carter over Phillips. Depends on who we draft though. If we draft a C at 12 and can't trade anyone for whatever reason, and Billy doesn't think he'll give Smith a long look backing up Matas at the 4, then I'd definitely be OK buying out Vuc.

This is absolutely wild to me. We're in a rebuild and you'd rather keep a 5th string career journeyman PG than a developmental wing who is athletic and has a ceiling as a 2 way player?

From my perspective, Carter is currently our 3rd string "1" behind Coby and Ayo. I think for insurance purposes you can't count guys as playing multiple positions in this context (even though obviously a guy like Ball can play the 1).

I'm not high in Phillips, partly because of how high I am on Matas. I don't call them wings, I call them "4s".

If Carter is the 5th string "1", then Phillips is at very best the 5th string "4" behind Matas, Smith, Giddey and Patrick.

Also factoring into this preference is that I think there is a higher chance of drafting frontcourt guy who does a lot of what Phillips does, but better, than there is that the Bulls draft a shooter type, so I actually see Carter as more likely to help us win this year, and I don't want either on our team beyond next season.

Is Carter a “1” in any real sense other than being short for an NBA player? He doesn’t create or pass well, and his POA defense was never as advertised.

I also don’t get downplaying multi-positional players for depth purposes, or, for that matter, calling Giddey and Matas both 4s when they are starting next to each other - if using a strict 1-5 listing, one has to be a 3.

I think it helps thinking of 4 position groups - guards (1-2), wings (2-3), forwards (3-4) and bigs (4-5). Ball is arguable re G v W.

Guards: Coby, Ayo, (Ball), Carter
Wings: Ball, Huerter, Terry
Forwards: Giddey, Matas, Pat, Phillips
Bigs: Vuc, Collins, Smith

It’s true that we have more depth a forward than any other spot - but Bulls also generally play with 2 forwards - one at the 3 and one at the 4 - and only 1 guard and 1 wing (though sometimes will go two forwards with 2 guards or even two wings). Anyway, given minutes at the 3 and 4 generally go to forwards- need twice the number of forwards as compared to either guards or wings. Also, if hope to ship off Pat…

Anyway, Carter is kind of useless and should never play. Phillips is useful as a Pat Williams injury and/or suckage hedge (not to mention risk of injury to Matas, etc.). Phillips is also still 21 years old, and has development potential (albeit it being slow); he is less than a year older than Matas. Carter, who is about to turn 30…. not so much.

[MGB8]

Could Vuc and Ayo be packaged to return any of these guys?

DeAndre Ayton
John Collins
Khris Middleton
CJ McCollum
Anfernee Simmons
Terry Rozier

If so I'd probably do it.

What's the appeal of Ayton or Rozier? Unless we are getting draft capital back too. Ayton is Vuc without a 3. Rozier is a chucker.

At one point Ayton played good D. So there is upside there, maybe.

[Michael Jackson]

I don't think he's a bad locker room guy or anything, but he pouts on the court when he doesn't get shots and doesn't hustle consistently on either side of the ball. Definitely not a great lead by example guy in terms of instilling good habits on the court. That said, he did seem better 2nd half of the year.

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

Well Luka exists but I get your meaning.

[League Circles]

Could Vuc and Ayo be packaged to return any of these guys?

DeAndre Ayton
John Collins
Khris Middleton
CJ McCollum
Anfernee Simmons
Terry Rozier

If so I'd probably do it.

What's the appeal of Ayton or Rozier? Unless we are getting draft capital back too. Ayton is Vuc without a 3. Rozier is a chucker.

Tbh it's really just to get Vuc out of the way. I probably don't know enough about Ayton to suggest this, but I have to think he'd have more upside for us than Vuc. Rozier I know sucks but I'm more confident that Billy would bench him.

I suppose in order to include Ayo I agree we'd probably have to get some draft pick back. I'm also kind of concerned that Ayo will be our best option at the 2 to start the season and will play well enough to keep a prospect glued to the bench (somebody we take at 12, 45, or Terry tbh), but not well enough to justify keeping long term. I don't think Ball and Ayo can both have long term meaningful roles with us, and Ball's superior talent and contract situation makes me more interested in keeping him.

McCollum and Simmons on the other hand are almost too good for us, as I'd want to either to play a 6th man role for us.

Middleton or John Collins might make the most sense.

These 6 guys were entirely identified by me due to the specific size and length of their contracts.

[League Circles]

This is absolutely wild to me. We're in a rebuild and you'd rather keep a 5th string career journeyman PG than a developmental wing who is athletic and has a ceiling as a 2 way player?

From my perspective, Carter is currently our 3rd string "1" behind Coby and Ayo. I think for insurance purposes you can't count guys as playing multiple positions in this context (even though obviously a guy like Ball can play the 1).

I'm not high in Phillips, partly because of how high I am on Matas. I don't call them wings, I call them "4s".

If Carter is the 5th string "1", then Phillips is at very best the 5th string "4" behind Matas, Smith, Giddey and Patrick.

Also factoring into this preference is that I think there is a higher chance of drafting frontcourt guy who does a lot of what Phillips does, but better, than there is that the Bulls draft a shooter type, so I actually see Carter as more likely to help us win this year, and I don't want either on our team beyond next season.

Is Carter a “1” in any real sense other than being short for an NBA player? He doesn’t create or pass well, and his POA defense was never as advertised.

I also don’t get downplaying multi-positional players for depth purposes, or, for that matter, calling Giddey and Matas both 4s when they are starting next to each other - if using a strict 1-5 listing, one has to be a 3.

I think it helps thinking of 4 position groups - guards (1-2), wings (2-3), forwards (3-4) and bigs (4-5). Ball is arguable re G v W.

Guards: Coby, Ayo, (Ball), Carter
Wings: Ball, Huerter, Terry
Forwards: Giddey, Matas, Pat, Phillips
Bigs: Vuc, Collins, Smith

It’s true that we have more depth a forward than any other spot - but Bulls also generally play with 2 forwards - one at the 3 and one at the 4 - and only 1 guard and 1 wing (though sometimes will go two forwards with 2 guards or even two wings). Anyway, given minutes at the 3 and 4 generally go to forwards- need twice the number of forwards as compared to either guards or wings. Also, if hope to ship off Pat…

Anyway, Carter is kind of useless and should never play. Phillips is useful as a Pat Williams injury and/or suckage hedge (not to mention risk of injury to Matas, etc.). Phillips is also still 21 years old, and has development potential (albeit it being slow); he is less than a year older than Matas. Carter, who is about to turn 30…. not so much.

To me, position has no meaning other than who you guard on average, or rather who you should be guarding on average with generic teammates against generic opponents. Carter would guard opposing 1s much more often than he'd guard bigger 2s in generic situations.

My point was that if you can call Carter our 5th string "PG" (by calling Ball and Giddey "PGs" even though they'll almost entirely be guarding the 2 and 3 spots), you then also have to call Patrick, Smith and Giddey 4s, even though they'll mostly be guarding the 3 and 5 spots (if Smith even gets to play), making Phillips the "5th string PF".

I generally agree that Carter shouldn't play. He's at very best our 3rd string "1", and IMO 3rd string guys should basically never play in the NBA.

[Stratmaster]

Moving Vuc is addition by subtraction. Don't expect 82 games out of Collins or Smith, but let's say they give you half... It'll be about the same as the 82 games Vuc gives you with good offense and terrible defense. Easy to scheme. Any solid team can scheme and blow a Vuc team out the building. It's an insurmountable handicap to play with.

Extending Vuc would be asinine.

Whether AK gives him up for nothing, is another story. I'd gladly take Nurkic and 33 (who is possibly/probably worse... but at least Billy is forced to play different Cs).

At this point, Vuc's contract is basically that of a quality first big off the bench. The only reason to extend him is if you can lock him in for 2 more years is if you believe that locking him in at that salary for 2 additional seasons would make him more tradeable. That extension would still allow them to immediately trade him. I'm not saying that WOULD make him more tradeable. Smarter people than me would have to assess that. I am just saying it COULD possibly be done.