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Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million

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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#41 » by Harper4Ferry? » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:06 pm

JonFromVA wrote:What I wonder is what was Markkanen and/or the Bulls going to do if Lauri's best offer was the MLE?


He was going to take the QO I’m assuming. I don’t think they pulled it.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#42 » by mg » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:12 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I don't think he's great, but he had the best advanced stats on the team over the last two years and was clearly missed when he was out (which was admittedly too often). Due to his versatility, he balanced an imbalanced roster in a way that I don't see Lauri doing.

I wish I liked this trade more, but I would've taken DJJ and the first.


Larry made us better, no doubt about that, but there's also little doubt one of the imbalances on the roster is shooting and drafting Mobley has not likely helped that - at least in the short term.

I was looking forward to Larry helping Evan develop his skills because they have a lot of the same all-around skills, but in that same sense they're kind of redundant.

What happens with Kevin is certainly a big question and as one of the big proponents of dumping him ASAP, surely you see the shooting hole that creates sooner if not later.


Just because this roster needs shooting doesn't mean you have to go get another PF to do so which creates another disaster of a lineup.

The Cavs could have traded Nance for Ross, Reddish, either or both of the Utah veterans, ECT. All of which would have been a better fit than Lauri. This is just flat out embarrassing


According to Fedor the only wings available were rentals who would've been UFA's next offseason which tells me Ingles and Kyle Anderson may have been the ones offered for Nance?

With that said I believe they are 100% on board with developing Mobley as their future franchise player. They obviously feel Lauri is a guy that helps in the development by taking some of the offensive pressure off Mobley while Allen will be the defender in the paint. Whether or not Lauri or Allen or Sexton and/or Okoro is part of the final core in a few years is still up for debate.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#43 » by LivingLegend » Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:21 am

JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Larry made us better, no doubt about that, but there's also little doubt one of the imbalances on the roster is shooting and drafting Mobley has not likely helped that - at least in the short term.

I was looking forward to Larry helping Evan develop his skills because they have a lot of the same all-around skills, but in that same sense they're kind of redundant.

What happens with Kevin is certainly a big question and as one of the big proponents of dumping him ASAP, surely you see the shooting hole that creates sooner if not later.


Just because this roster needs shooting doesn't mean you have to go get another PF to do so which creates another disaster of a lineup.

The Cavs could have traded Nance for Ross, Reddish, either or both of the Utah veterans, ECT. All of which would have been a better fit than Lauri. This is just flat out embarrassing


In a swamp of bad choices we picked shooting, talent, length, and youth.

We could have done worse.

We also could have just kept Larry.

But the fit of this team is going to continue to be a big question mark until we decide what to do with Sexland/Okoro.

Until that happens, at least we have another shooter.


So we are just going to continue to triple down on terrible roster construction in the meantime just for the sake of making a move? That's not even to mention the contract we gave him in the process
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#44 » by jbk1234 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:04 am

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Just because this roster needs shooting doesn't mean you have to go get another PF to do so which creates another disaster of a lineup.

The Cavs could have traded Nance for Ross, Reddish, either or both of the Utah veterans, ECT. All of which would have been a better fit than Lauri. This is just flat out embarrassing


In a swamp of bad choices we picked shooting, talent, length, and youth.

We could have done worse.

We also could have just kept Larry.

But the fit of this team is going to continue to be a big question mark until we decide what to do with Sexland/Okoro.

Until that happens, at least we have another shooter.


So we are just going to continue to triple down on terrible roster construction in the meantime just for the sake of making a move? That's not even to mention the contract we gave him in the process
I'm having a difficult time disagreeing with Legend here. We're basically making an all-in bet on big men, before we buyout the last big we overpaid.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#45 » by Wisedude » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:27 am

With the story that the Cavs are making progress on a buyout with Love, this trade makes great sense with or without a Love buyout.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#46 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:32 am

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Just because this roster needs shooting doesn't mean you have to go get another PF to do so which creates another disaster of a lineup.

The Cavs could have traded Nance for Ross, Reddish, either or both of the Utah veterans, ECT. All of which would have been a better fit than Lauri. This is just flat out embarrassing


In a swamp of bad choices we picked shooting, talent, length, and youth.

We could have done worse.

We also could have just kept Larry.

But the fit of this team is going to continue to be a big question mark until we decide what to do with Sexland/Okoro.

Until that happens, at least we have another shooter.


So we are just going to continue to triple down on terrible roster construction in the meantime just for the sake of making a move? That's not even to mention the contract we gave him in the process


We have 32 mpg for 3 bigs, we can play any 2 together, they compliment each other, they're long, and are balanced.

If Sexland is going to work we need the complimentary shooting. Lauri now, Windler and Cedi hopefully, Mobley, Allen, and Okoro sooner or never.

If you were hoping for the wings and guards to get reworked ... well ... not this week. This is what we could do.

Basically we had to do something about Love. We need a big with that kind of shooting gravity, but even if we kept Kevin. how can we count on him? Not to mention how bad his defense has been. At least Laurri will try and run the floor.

And yeah Altman needs to try to keep his job, so he'd better try to make his draft picks look like players rather than have to dump them for a lottery protected first and a second.

If you didn't want to lose Nance for a deal like this ... I get it ... I'm just trying to make sense of it.

If the Cavs can help Laurri turn the clock back and get him playing at a 20 & 10 level again, we will have either a great bargain or a player actually worth a good wing.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#47 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:43 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
In a swamp of bad choices we picked shooting, talent, length, and youth.

We could have done worse.

We also could have just kept Larry.

But the fit of this team is going to continue to be a big question mark until we decide what to do with Sexland/Okoro.

Until that happens, at least we have another shooter.


So we are just going to continue to triple down on terrible roster construction in the meantime just for the sake of making a move? That's not even to mention the contract we gave him in the process
I'm having a difficult time disagreeing with Legend here. We're basically making an all-in bet on big men, before we buyout the last big we overpaid.


Sounds like the right order to me, might even be connected in that they may not have been willing to buy Love out without a viable replacement. Larry can knock down an open 3, but he has 0 gravity.

Once Love is off the books our frontcourt payroll will be similar to Atlanta's with Capella, Collins, and Gallanari.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#48 » by LivingLegend » Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:56 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
So we are just going to continue to triple down on terrible roster construction in the meantime just for the sake of making a move? That's not even to mention the contract we gave him in the process
I'm having a difficult time disagreeing with Legend here. We're basically making an all-in bet on big men, before we buyout the last big we overpaid.


Sounds like the right order to me, might even be connected in that they may not have been willing to buy Love out without a viable replacement. Larry can knock down an open 3, but he has 0 gravity.

Once Love is off the books our frontcourt payroll will be similar to Atlanta's with Capella, Collins, and Gallanari.


I think the part thats missing here is that we took our biggest trade asset and DIDNT use it to address the biggest weakness of the team (SF). How TF does that even happen.

They wasted a Willy Wonka golden ticket on a 3rd helping of pie instead of their 1st helping of steak.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#49 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:00 am

LivingLegend wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm having a difficult time disagreeing with Legend here. We're basically making an all-in bet on big men, before we buyout the last big we overpaid.


Sounds like the right order to me, might even be connected in that they may not have been willing to buy Love out without a viable replacement. Larry can knock down an open 3, but he has 0 gravity.

Once Love is off the books our frontcourt payroll will be similar to Atlanta's with Capella, Collins, and Gallanari.


I think the part thats missing here is that we took our biggest trade asset and DIDNT use it to address the biggest weakness of the team (SF). How TF does that even happen.

They wasted a Willy Wonka golden ticket on a 3rd helping of pie instead of their 1st helping of steak.


Maybe the steak was usda select ...

Nance wasn't our biggest trade asset and if your goal in trading him is to replace a core player in the starting lineup ... shouldn't we just trade that player rather than piss him off?

Until injuries happen the only unallocated minutes we have right now are 12 to 16 minutes at backup SF.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#50 » by Louri » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:47 am

You got a good one. It's much easier to teach average D than elite O. Lauri has made already lot's of progress in D if you compare him to his first years.

He has been a bit stiff last years as Bulls trainers wanted to add more size/strength than agility. This summer he went back to agility, explosiveness and speed (without Bulls training program). I hope it pays off and he looks more like Lauri from 1st year than 4th.

Anyway, can't wait to see how Markkanen play next year in a new uniform. Potential is there, he just needs to sort his head.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#51 » by LateStar » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:37 am

According to sources, Lauri has flown back to the US last night.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#52 » by Pentele » Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:33 pm

I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised. Lauri's fit with both Allen and Mobley should be, by all accounts, good so tying money on the three bigs is not that catastrofic, even less if Love is bought out. Lauri's defense is not great, but it is actually not that bad either. It is very average, he does not move the needle either way. Especially his help defense was quite bad before, but the last year was a clear improvement on that front, and I do not see why he would not continue developing while watching much better defensive players Allen and, I presume, Mobley. That was missing in the Bulls the last couple of years, I think Lauri already picked some things from Daniel Theis after the trade deadline.

On the offense Lauri is easy to fit to any scheme because he stretches the floor being a constant catch-and-shoot threat. If Sexton and Garland are willing to lend the ball some, Lauri can certainly be more than that, but I do not see any scenario where he would be completely wasted in the offense. For instance, Lauri's efficiency in P&R was, if I recall correctly, the best of all Bulls players, but the "problem" was that it made too much sense for him to constantly strectch the floor. The situation could be similar in the Cavs, as Allen may easily clog the area around the basket, but with right timings there are lots of variations besides Lauri's cup of tea, i.e., pick and pop, that the Cavs can play with Lauri. His finishing touch around the basket was tremendously good before the trade deadline last year (like he converted more difficult finishes than pretty much anyone in NBA), but things of course changed with the Bulls going to very different direction with Vucevic. Still, Lauri had the second best +/- of the Bulls players after the trade deadline (and the guy with the best +/- played only like four games).
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#53 » by KuruptedCav » Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:06 pm

Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#54 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:31 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


We still need Okoro to shoot better, but I'm more confident in him doing that and improving his defense against taller players, then turning in to a shooting guard.

He shot 40% on his 3's at home, and his defense will improve as he learns the habits of the guys he's asked to defend (aka the best opposing wing/guard).

In Cavs fashion, Lauri's contact is only partially guaranteed in the last season granting us the ability to use his contract to in the worst case absorb salary in a trade as early as 2.5 years in to his deal.

There's a tale of caution for the Cavs and how they deal with Sexton in this. Lauri may have eventually ended up with a number the Bulls might had been willing to pay him for his rookie extension, but it's not with them. No, it's not exactly the same, but the RFA process can sour a relationship and make a player not want to return and visa-versa.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#55 » by jbk1234 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:10 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


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Or if we end up sliding Okoro to the 2 one day, it will help. But currently, we're still undersized 1-3, we got worse defensively at the 4, and the ability of Nance to switch out on smaller players is gone.

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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#56 » by jbk1234 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:28 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#57 » by kapo » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:55 pm

My wishlist as a Markkanen fan:
1. Let Lauri use and develop his mid range game
2. Let Lauri run the floor and even push the ball himself to fast breaks
Markkanen is loyal to the system, so these are coaching decisions.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#58 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:28 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
KuruptedCav wrote:Moving on, at least his offensive gravity will allow Okoro to run at SF without destroying spacing.


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Or if we end up sliding Okoro to the 2 one day, it will help. But currently, we're still undersized 1-3, we got worse defensively at the 4, and the ability of Nance to switch out on smaller players is gone.


Nance didn't really like guarding wings on the perimeter, though.

We have options at SF with Okoro, Windler, Osman, ... and Mobley.

And while we lost defense at PF by trading Nance, we gained a ton (sooner or later) by adding Mobley.

If we buy-out Love, that'll be addition by subtraction on the defensive side even taking in to account his rebounding.

How the salaries all fit together is no less of a concern, but I would have slotted Nance in on a ~ $15M/yr extension when his current contract is up.

To me it all comes down to whether Markkanen is an NBA dinosaur ... a shooting specialist in the post-Ryan Anderson era ... or if a change of place, a new attitude, other bigs to protect him defensively, and PGs to run the show elevate him back on the development track he was on in his second season.

And even so, in a league where Doug McDermott just got paid $14M/yr ... shooting is apparently still in high demand.
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#59 » by JonFromVA » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:35 pm

kapo wrote:My wishlist as a Markkanen fan:
1. Let Lauri use and develop his mid range game
2. Let Lauri run the floor and even push the ball himself to fast breaks
Markkanen is loyal to the system, so these are coaching decisions.


Not exactly a big ask ... even if he's hanging out beyond the 3pt line, if defenders close out hard he should have space to create something in the mid-range, drive to the hoop, or pass to the other big. The Cavs aren't too picky who brings up the ball if there's a chance to push the pace.

Does Lauri have any experience running plays from the elbow?

If the Cavs try that with Mobley, they may give Lauri a chance to so so as well.

One thing the Cavs seem to lack is a strong forward to set killer screens. I get the impression Evan and Lauri both prefer to slip them.

How is Lauri with dribble handoffs?
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Re: Cavs aquire Lauri Markkanen via S&T - 4 years/ 67 million 

Post#60 » by Taikuri » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:24 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I don't think the Cavs are good enough defensively to prioritize spacing above all else this way.

Also, our softness just increased to Charmin levels.

I think we just traded our best win-now player for another we'll-see young guy. I suspect the second best offer for Lauri wasn't anywhere near this good, in terms of dollars or trade compensation.

I'm not sure Lauri is better than Hartenstein.
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Sounds like tanking for a draft pick is Cavaliers' plan then for the upcoming season. I'll be watching some games for both The Bulls and Cleveland next season and minimum will be the 10 min highlights for both teams.

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