Brewers 2024 Discussion - Dunn Called up, Wiemer Sent Down

[coolhandluke121]

After tonight, Joey Ortiz will have more WAR than Corbin Burnes. William Contreras has A LOT more WAR than Hader the last two years, and I wouldn't be surprised if even Gasser already has more WAR than Hader. So, the notion that a good team can't also manage assets when they're in first place falls really flat IMO. A ridiculously high percentage of their trades end up paying off significantly sooner than expected, dating all the way back to Lucroy, Gomez, and others who were traded around the end of the Melvin era.

Also, just to get the Rosenthal story straight, the Brewers learned their lesson from seeing the effects of the Hader trade... and the lesson is that they should NOT have done it? Cool story bruh.

[MVP2110]

After tonight, Joey Ortiz will have more WAR than Corbin Burnes. William Contreras has A LOT more WAR than Hader the last two years, and I wouldn't be surprised if even Gasser already has more WAR than Hader. So, the notion that a good team can't also manage assets when they're in first place falls really flat IMO. A ridiculously high percentage of their trades end up paying off significantly sooner than expected, dating all the way back to Lucroy, Gomez, and others who were traded around the end of the Melvin era.

Also, just to get the Rosenthal story straight, the Brewers learned their lesson from seeing the effects of the Hader trade... and the lesson is that they should NOT have done it? Cool story bruh.

Yea this is what I don't get. That trade has turned out to be a complete win for the Brewers. It seems like they've learned the wrong lesson

[WeekapaugGroove]

With Adames, let's see where they are in the standings closer to the deadline. If they are in 1st then I would get holding onto him. If they are just in the wildcard hunt then trading him should be far more of an option regardless if it pisses off his teammates. Basically they need to ask themselves 'would we trade for a rental in our current situation'.

Now if some team was willing to offer a Gasser level starting pitching prospect who was ready now I could see that making sense right now.

Like most trades it really depends what you can get back.

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[coolhandluke121]

With Adames, let's see where they are in the standings closer to the deadline. If they are in 1st then I would get holding onto him. If they are just in the wildcard hunt then trading him should be far more of an option regardless if it pisses off his teammates. Basically they need to ask themselves 'would we trade for a rental in our current situation'.

Now if some team was willing to offer a Gasser level starting pitching prospect who was ready now I could see that making sense right now.

Like most trades it really depends what you can get back.

That last part is obviously the most salient. In any case, I'd say that I trust them either way, but it does really concern me that we're seeing reports that they recognize that trading Hader was a mistake. I mean, wt actual f? And I also just want to point out that being in first place is not what it used to be if you're not one of the top 2 division leaders. That's the real threshold because you can avoid the fluke 3-game series in round 1. Being the #3 division winner, which is probably the realistic best-case scenario, is hardly better than being a wild-card team at this stage.

ETA: Unless winning the division means you can lock up a playoff spot sooner and realign your pitching staff for the playoffs, but there are plenty of scenarios where wild-card teams can lock up a playoff spot before mediocre division winners can.

[Kerb Hohl]

So Hall only threw 11 pitches yesterday in his rehab stint. Sat at 94-95, though.

Sounds like they're going to keep his rehab outings short for a while and then decide whether to stretch him out or not. Seems like the betting odds right now is he comes back as a reliever/middle innings guy. Maybe they try the starting thing out again next year.

[Ron Swanson]

After tonight, Joey Ortiz will have more WAR than Corbin Burnes. William Contreras has A LOT more WAR than Hader the last two years, and I wouldn't be surprised if even Gasser already has more WAR than Hader. So, the notion that a good team can't also manage assets when they're in first place falls really flat IMO. A ridiculously high percentage of their trades end up paying off significantly sooner than expected, dating all the way back to Lucroy, Gomez, and others who were traded around the end of the Melvin era.

Also, just to get the Rosenthal story straight, the Brewers learned their lesson from seeing the effects of the Hader trade... and the lesson is that they should NOT have done it? Cool story bruh.

Yea this is what I don't get. That trade has turned out to be a complete win for the Brewers. It seems like they've learned the wrong lesson

Is that what was implied?

Why Adames is unlikely to be the next Hader

Speaking of the Brewers, the return from their controversial Josh Hader trade at the 2022 deadline keeps looking better and better.

Adames, 28, probably can rest easy. If the Brewers traded him, they could slide Brice Turang to shortstop and use Joey Ortiz and others at second base. But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader.

I'm not seeing any regret here. More cautioning that lightning probably won't strike twice here cuz Reliever =/= every day 3-4 tool player. I'd actually agree with that. Again, this entirely depends on how the team looks in July. Positional, on-the-field value changes the calculus.

[MVP2110]

After tonight, Joey Ortiz will have more WAR than Corbin Burnes. William Contreras has A LOT more WAR than Hader the last two years, and I wouldn't be surprised if even Gasser already has more WAR than Hader. So, the notion that a good team can't also manage assets when they're in first place falls really flat IMO. A ridiculously high percentage of their trades end up paying off significantly sooner than expected, dating all the way back to Lucroy, Gomez, and others who were traded around the end of the Melvin era.

Also, just to get the Rosenthal story straight, the Brewers learned their lesson from seeing the effects of the Hader trade... and the lesson is that they should NOT have done it? Cool story bruh.

Yea this is what I don't get. That trade has turned out to be a complete win for the Brewers. It seems like they've learned the wrong lesson

Is that what was implied?

Why Adames is unlikely to be the next Hader

Speaking of the Brewers, the return from their controversial Josh Hader trade at the 2022 deadline keeps looking better and better.

Adames, 28, probably can rest easy. If the Brewers traded him, they could slide Brice Turang to shortstop and use Joey Ortiz and others at second base. But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader.

I'm not seeing any regret here. More cautioning that lightning probably won't strike twice here cuz Reliever =/= every day 3-4 tool player. I'd actually agree with that. Again, this entirely depends on how the team looks in July. Positional, on-the-field value changes the calculus.

It's been mentioned several times since the Hader trade that the Brewers realize that trade was a "mistake".

It's implied in this article with the quote "But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader"

It was also discussed last year around a potential Burnes trade.

Now to be clear I'm not saying they should trade Adames, it obviously depends on the type of offers they receive, and it's possible that the Front office is leaking this as a way to drive up bidding and/or easing players worries, but in no way was the Hader trade a mistake. They've clearly won that deal and I think it's debatable at best that they'd have made the playoffs in 2022 with Hader on the roster.

[Ron Swanson]

No, I seriously doubt there's a single person in the organization that looks at Contreras having an MVP type year, and Gasser/Ortiz being legit pieces already, and legitimately says "yeah, we still made a mistake trading Josh". Acknowledging the one piece of negative fallout from the trade (we know this because players literally admitted as much) doesn't mean everyone involved in the decision-making process can't universally acknowledge that trade as still being a massive win and the right thing to do in hindsight. Cautioning against this idea of "well it worked out that time, let's just keep doing it" isn't the same thing as learning the wrong lessons. Pretty much everyone here was in favor of trading Burnes this past offseason, so kind of a poor example.

[coolhandluke121]

Yea this is what I don't get. That trade has turned out to be a complete win for the Brewers. It seems like they've learned the wrong lesson

Is that what was implied?

Why Adames is unlikely to be the next Hader

Speaking of the Brewers, the return from their controversial Josh Hader trade at the 2022 deadline keeps looking better and better.

Adames, 28, probably can rest easy. If the Brewers traded him, they could slide Brice Turang to shortstop and use Joey Ortiz and others at second base. But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader.

I'm not seeing any regret here. More cautioning that lightning probably won't strike twice here cuz Reliever =/= every day 3-4 tool player. I'd actually agree with that. Again, this entirely depends on how the team looks in July. Positional, on-the-field value changes the calculus.

It's been mentioned several times since the Hader trade that the Brewers realize that trade was a "mistake".

It's implied in this article with the quote "But club officials recognize the internal damage they caused with the Hader deal, and the potential to unsettle the clubhouse again by parting with an everyday player and team leader"

It was also discussed last year around a potential Burnes trade.

Now to be clear I'm not saying they should trade Adames, it obviously depends on the type of offers they receive, and it's possible that the Front office is leaking this as a way to drive up bidding and/or easing players worries, but in no way was the Hader trade a mistake. They've clearly won that deal and I think it's debatable at best that they'd have made the playoffs in 2022 with Hader on the roster.

I might have worded it poorly, but in terms of p.r., I don't know why the organization would be doing anything but pimp the trade. Saying it harmed the locker-room seems like the exact opposite of what they should be doing. The players involved and the short-sighted fans should be the ones acknowledging that they overreacted and should have let management do its job. Some fans seemed to practically boycott the entire 2023 season, if attendance and ratings were any indication, despite the Brewers winning the division and the playoffs being a free-for-all as usual. If the premise is that "small market teams are either cheap or baseball is unfair because they can't/won't pay guys like Hader" and the team proceeds to win the division and lead it again this year, doesn't that make the premise look kind of silly?

ETA: I could have been a little more concise about the main point. Just say that that's the kind of trade you have to do in order to stay competitive on a regular basis. Don't act like you're scared to make trades like that because of reactionary fans and players.

[MVP2110]

No, I seriously doubt there's a single person in the organization that looks at Contreras having an MVP type year, and Gasser/Ortiz being legit pieces already, and legitimately says "yeah, we still made a mistake trading Josh". Acknowledging the one piece of negative fallout from the trade (we know this because players literally admitted as much) doesn't mean everyone involved in the decision-making process can't universally acknowledge that trade as still being a massive win and the right thing to do in hindsight. Cautioning against this idea of "well it worked out that time, let's just keep doing it" isn't the same thing as learning the wrong lessons. Pretty much everyone here was in favor of trading Burnes this past offseason, so kind of a poor example.

I mean last year Arnold said this about a possible Burnes trade at the deadline

“Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that we'll get phone calls on these guys, because they're very good. But that's not something we're considering.”

It's certainly possible he was lying, but it certainly gives out the vibe that the Brewers weren't considering even the possibility of trading Burnes at the deadline last year because of what happened with the Hader trade

[MVP2110]

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[ReasonablySober]

Holy **** Blalock straight from AA.

[ReasonablySober]

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I wonder what the role is going to be. I have to think relief. He's started all season but he's thrown fewer than 40 innings.

[M-C-G]

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I wonder what the role is going to be. I have to think relief. He's started all season but he's thrown fewer than 40 innings.

So much fun having a young team. As much as I love the Bucks, the Brewers feel like the opposite this year and maybe more like if you were a Minnesota or OKC fan


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[ReasonablySober]

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[rayallenscalves]

Don't look now, but Willy is mired in his annual massive slump. Now hitting .176 in May with a .208 OBP and a 17:3 K:BB ratio. This is why you trade Willy. I get that he's great for chemistry, but he's nowhere near the $100 million contract he's likely to get.

[coolhandluke121]

Don't look now, but Willy is mired in his annual massive slump. Now hitting .176 in May with a .208 OBP and a 17:3 K:BB ratio. This is why you trade Willy. I get that he's great for chemistry, but he's nowhere near the $100 million contract he's likely to get.

Yeah, he's pretty wild at the plate and I can't ever see consistent hitting from him. Some of his swings are downright embarrassing. I get that everyone looks foolish at the plate sometimes, but it's the way he's trying to be the hero and hit it 400 feet when they just need a good ball in play that drives me nuts. I've been saying this for about a year now, but he reminds me of Carlos Gomez towards the end of his time in Milwaukee. Defense will decline with athleticism as well.

[MickeyDavis]

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[trwi7]

Don't look now, but Willy is mired in his annual massive slump. Now hitting .176 in May with a .208 OBP and a 17:3 K:BB ratio. This is why you trade Willy. I get that he's great for chemistry, but he's nowhere near the $100 million contract he's likely to get.

Wouldn't be shocked if the comp pick and associated bonus money we get for him would exceed the value we would currently get for him in a trade.

[Ayt]

Don't look now, but Willy is mired in his annual massive slump. Now hitting .176 in May with a .208 OBP and a 17:3 K:BB ratio. This is why you trade Willy. I get that he's great for chemistry, but he's nowhere near the $100 million contract he's likely to get.

Wouldn't be shocked if the comp pick and associated bonus money we get for him would exceed the value we would currently get for him in a trade.

I hope you are wrong, but that might be the case. Hopefully, there is some stupid team out there willing to give up some pitching for him.