RealGM

He was never a starting PG or a true key piece, and he FINALLY got exposed but should we bring him back? He can defend 1-3, would provide another person who can make a play off of the bench, and would allow KCP to play more at the 3 and not be forced into ball-handling situations. He made pretty much the minimum last year but I think he could be a steal as a tertiary facilitator and defender off the bench with his minutes fluctuating depending on matchups. Somewhere in between what Livingston, David Lee, & Iguodala provided for the Warriors. DNP-25 minutes. I'd be willing to slightly overpay too because his value is not high. Scorers and playmakers who can defend on the floor are key despite their other weaknesses like the 3 mentioned above. No contender is going to pay him big money.

I don't know about throwing $14 million at a guy like Tobias Harris...

PG: Jennings (31) / Jackson (11) / Dinwiddie (6) / Stuckey (Extreme Foul Trouble)
SG: Jackson (20) / Stuckey (14) / Meeks (10) / Dinwiddie (4)
SF: KCP (30) / Johnson (18) / Stuckey (Need handling)
PF: Illyasova (25) / Tolliver (15) / Johnson (8)
C: Drummond (32) / Somebody / Tolliver (?)

We could throw out small ball lineups of:

Jackson/Stuckey/KCP/Johnson/Drummond for defense
Jennings/Jackson/Stuckey/Illyasova/Drummond for 3 playmakers who can run P&R
Jennings/Jackson/Stuckey/KCP/Drummond for SUPER SMALL
Jennings/Dinwiddie/KCP/Johnson/Illyasova for we need a 3
Or just give Stuckey the David Lee DNP treatment letting the young guys develop until a matchup needs him in the playoffs

EDIT: By the way I'm thinking playoffs not the pie regular season where guys like Meeks and KCP can consistently get open looks. In the playoffs you need guys who can dribble and attack space. We don't have an elite playmaker so the more the merrier. You seen what happened to the Hawks and Rockets with all those 3's. TP wasn't healthy for the Spurs but... yea

No thanks.

I'm a Stuckey fan... but he doesn't fit SVG's system.

Hell no

LOL is this real life? Absolutely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H07zYvkNYL8[/youtube]

lmao cmon man

detroitKG wrote:LOL is this real life? Absolutely NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H07zYvkNYL8[/youtube]

Trust me... NOBODY on here probably despised Stuckey more than me, but that was primarily because of the role he was put in and the expectations. That veteran's minimum contract he got last year, and the numbers probably not being friendly to him this offseason may have humbled him. He's not terrible though for the points I mentioned in the 1st post, and could be good value for a playoff matchup especially. FT line, P&R, defense, scoring.... why not throw him on the bench for the low for versatility? If Cleveland had Stuckey buried on their bench until Kyrie got hurt they might have a championship.

i love stuckey, but theres no role for him in detroit.

Still a Stuckey fan but he doesn't fit. With Jackson, Jennings, Pope, Meeks and Dinwiddie there isn't really a spot for a non shooting combo guard.

Yea,just no room for him and meeks is pretty much stuckey with better shooting and alittle less defense,but they would cancell themselfs out and I would rather have meeks at this point than stuck.Iam sure some contending team will pick him up for backup pg-sg,like you said could see the cavs,lac,

I'd rather give Meeks or a different free agent all those minutes, we need shooting for space to go with the system. He'll be good for someone, just not us.

Cowology wrote:Still a Stuckey fan but he doesn't fit. With Jackson, Jennings, Pope, Meeks and Dinwiddie there isn't really a spot for a non shooting combo guard.

I agree there but I just don't see Meeks as a long-term piece or anything more than a solid knockdown shooter with hustle. Shorter James Jones with a slightly better motor. He can score a little bit but ideally he's like a 4th option ball-handler and a hit an open shot at a high clip guy. Without playmakers he doesn't get those open looks often. Having Jennings and Jackson both here is a luxury that likely won't end up with both of them getting rich extensions from us either. There's a chance they may not both be on the roster to start this season. A guy with Stuckey's versatility off the bench might knock Meeks out of the rotation but who cares.... it's Jodie Meeks! He can come in when we just need a 3...

GS gave Andrew Bogut and David Lee who combined to make $28 million this year DNP's in the finals. Meeks hasn't done anything to deserve a role and fit around him. We know what he is!

*mini rant mode* This takes me back to the Josh Smith situation. Just because Josh makes $14 million doesn't mean he has to start. CLEARLY he's better off of the bench, and doesn't fit in with the best players. I don't understand why we couldn't use him as a 6th man type. That's all Houston did. Why release talent while still paying him instead of putting him on the bench? Look how that worked in GS with Iggy. Similar contracts too. Jodie Meeks can take his 6.5 million, and eat a DNP until we need him!! With his one-dimensional streaky game... No GM should ever say.... "Dang, I should pick him up but...... we already have Jodie Meeks there." SO ******* WHATTTTT!?!?!!

I posted about this last year around this time, and it's amazingly disappointing what ended up happening:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1335230

Anyways, as I look at our roster and the moves that we've made and players we have it all boils down to lineups. A lot of players end up starting in the NBA based off of name, but as we've seen with players like Crawford, J.R. Smith, Nick Young, Ginobili a little, certain players just need to come off of the bench to have a higher usage rate and not take away touches from the better players. Brandon Jennings is one of those players, except he can only play the point because of his defense. Unfortunately, Josh Smith is another one of those guys. One of them must come off of the bench.

Let Jennings run with shooters 2-4 (could be Meeks, KCP, Jerebko) and a big that can defend the paint for his lack of lateral strength on D (Drummond)
Let Josh run with shooters 1-3, two of which are solid ball handlers and pick and roll guys to create more space for him in the halfcourt (could be Augstin & Dindwiddie)

Basically, if Josh Smith and Jennings are on the same team next year they should almost NEVER be on the floor together for offensive efficiency reasons.

Gotta wait and see on Monroe and what happens but don't underrate the value of the shooting that we have. I wouldn't mind keeping him as long as Josh never plays the 3, and as long as one of Smith or Jennings comes off the bench. That is VERY necessary.

Now we have no Josh and are likely losing Monroe as well

I understand your argument... I just think it's flawed.

If playmaking is your concern I suggest you turn your attention towards a player capable of doing that from an actual position of need as opposed to crowding an already full backcourt. Either forward position to be more specific.

Keep in mind it doesn't necessarily help us to address one problem if all we do is create another, which is essentially what you are suggesting. For my part I love versatility and would love to add a guy who can create at the 3 or 4 spot, but I'm comfortable putting the ball in RJ/Jennings hands and allowing them to be ball dominant as most great PG's are. Your top assist guys always have high usage rates and neither of our points are the type of combo guards who typically demand a secondary ball handler in a 2-guard front style Offense.

If healthy I wouldn't be shocked to see them play stretches together as well, or with Dinwiddie.

Stan seems to want our PGs to act like PG's and they have both responded positively. i don't think this is nearly the issue you perceive it to be. Putting non shooting quasi-playmakers who are ball dominant seems like the wrong way to go here.

I'd place more emphasis on good ball movement. Spacing and execution will get us farther than Stuckey driving into traffic to "create".

Cowology wrote:I understand your argument... I just think it's flawed.

If playmaking is your concern I suggest you turn your attention towards a player capable of doing that from an actual position of need as opposed to crowding an already full backcourt. Either forward position to be more specific.

Keep in mind it doesn't necessarily help us to address one problem if all we do is create another, which is essentially what you are suggesting. For my part I love versatility and would love to add a guy who can create at the 3 or 4 spot, but I'm comfortable putting the ball in RJ/Jennings hands and allowing them to be ball dominant as most great PG's are. Your top assist guys always have high usage rates and neither of our points are the type of combo guards who typically demand a secondary ball handler in a 2-guard front style Offense.

If healthy I wouldn't be shocked to see them play stretches together as well, or with Dinwiddie.

Stan seems to want our PGs to act like PG's and they have both responded positively. i don't think this is nearly the issue you perceive it to be. Putting non shooting quasi-playmakers who are ball dominant seems like the wrong way to go here.

I'd place more emphasis on good ball movement. Spacing and execution will get us farther than Stuckey driving into traffic to "create".

I agree 100% about preferring to add a playmaker at the 3/4 and actually mentioned that in the Drummond max deal thread...

> Efficient winning teams have playmakers on the frontline
Right now we have spacing with Tolliver and Illyasova which is good. But, guys like Aldridge, Duncan, Draymond Green, Blake Griffin, Gasol, KG, Shaq, Rasheed, LeBron, Webber, Noah, Iguodala, Boris Diaw, Dirk, etc are all very good at making the right basketball play when given space to operate. Obviously these are rare players, but these type players are consistently a part of winning teams. They won't always have high assist numbers, but if you watch the games you see a comfort from these bigs in space or when doubled making the right play that makes the offense work.

The part I underlined though is why I'd be all for adding a guy like Stuckey, or anybody that can make a play in space. Those playmaking 3's and 4's are so rare and hard to get and I haven't seen any available. Tobias Harris is the only unique one semi-available I've seen, but he's more of a "get him the ball in a good position and he'll make a athletic scoring play" guy than a playmaker. Plus, Stuckey has the size and strength to defend and rebound the 3 spot.

If you think about it Stuckey is just like Draymond Green game-wise. He isn't as good of a defender obviously but he can defend multiple positions, rebounds like a taller player, hits the open 3 at a respectable clip, and can attack space and make a play scoring or passing off of good ball movement like you mentioned. Good ball movement ends when certain players get the ball in space and can't really do anything with it but dribble themselves into low percentage shots and predictable passes that usually end up with turnovers.

On offense picture a guy like Illyasova/Tolliver playing a traditional 3 role for spacing, and Stuckey playing more of a playmaking 4 role (like a Draymond) than a traditional guard role and that's where you get the fit. You see a 1-4 of Jennings/Jackson/Stuckey/Stretch 4 and a lot of people say you need shooting. Put it on the floor though and if you're getting your 5, Stuckey, and even Jackson involved in P&R as the guy setting the pick you get an interesting dynamic there with playmakers in space. If they're not involved in the P&R, if you swing weakside you have a guy that can hit the 3, run another P&R, or if there is space they can also drive and create efficient offense from there as well.

KCP, Meeks, Illyasova, Tolliver, etc are all guys that can only hit the open shot. When there is a good closeout and no space to shoot the 3 and they have to dribble..? <25FG% & turnover probability 45%. Picture how worthless the Cavs specialists were in the Finals and ours aren't any better (Delly, JR, Shump, Miller, Jones). They had LeBron running PG and were still worthless. Meanwhile with GS, the Cavs doubled Steph to get the ball out of his hands but still had Iggy, Barbosa, Klay, Livingston, Draymond, etc who could DRIBBLE. None are super consistent 3 point shooters for stereotypical space except Klay, but they made plays. Specifically Iggy and Draymond.

The backcourt is already crowded.

Laimbeer wrote:The backcourt is already crowded.

KCP and Meeks can get flipped for a 4/5

No. This is like getting back with an ex. You just don't.

313 Professor wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:The backcourt is already crowded.

KCP and Meeks can get flipped for a 4/5

You are right, lets flip KCP and Meeks for a 4/5 that we don't need so we can bring back a guy who is a terrible fit on this team.I was a Stuckey fan but the guy is probably the worst possible player to be signed by this team.

Navas wrote:No. This is like getting back with an ex. You just don't.

That veteran's minimum guy she was with made her appreciate me more. Humbled her. I'll give her a chance

If Rockin' Rodney's finally figured out a 3P shot, I doubt we can lowball him.