2024 Preseason Preview

[MartinToVaught]

I found a feed via CLIPPERVISION. No commentary, but the Clips brought the starters back.

BEARD
ZU
MANN
POWELL
DERRICK JONES

They are ASS

gave away the lead to a crap Nets team and Zu has 4 fouls before halftime. Down 57-54. This shtt will not work. Without Kawhi, this is a 30-win team. I'm APPALLED. Take the under.

It's a work in progress, but we won and got some promising signs from the young players. Hardly the catstrophe you were making it out to be.

[esqtvd]

I found a feed via CLIPPERVISION. No commentary, but the Clips brought the starters back.

BEARD
ZU
MANN
POWELL
DERRICK JONES

They are ASS

gave away the lead to a crap Nets team and Zu has 4 fouls before halftime. Down 57-54. This shtt will not work. Without Kawhi, this is a 30-win team. I'm APPALLED. Take the under.

It's a work in progress, but we won and got some promising signs from the young players. Hardly the catstrophe you were making it out to be.

Oh good. Positivity at last.

[og15]

Also ASS

Read on Twitter

I mean it's pre-season, the whole point is to try out random lineups and see what you have, not sure there's much reason to be taking blame at this point.

Even during the season with so many new players, he's going to still be doing tinkering for up to around 30 games, so there will be some useless lineups thrown out while trying to figure out which guys play together well, etc

[Bobbymcgee]

My main concern is that I don't think this team can finish with a better record than Houston, thus swaying OKC to swap draft picks with the Rockets instead.

[MartinToVaught]

Oh good. Positivity at last.

I'm always positive about things that actually warrant positivity. It's hard to complain about what we saw from Miller and Williams. Now we just need Lue to get over himself and actually play these guys in the regular season so they can develop.

[esqtvd]

Yes, we've given up on actually contending, where every win counts for seeding. Vegas has us at 40.5 wins.

Enjoy.

[MartinToVaught]

Yes, we've given up on actually contending, where every win counts for seeding. Vegas has us at 40.5 wins.

Enjoy.

We already weren't contending. The disgrace of a product we were putting out on the court the last two years didn't even qualify as a pretender, let alone a contender. This year's team isn't a contender either, but they might end up being watchable, which would still be better than the last couple seasons.

If you think the same team from last year was going to magically figure it out this year when they're another year older and slower, you're nuts. Even Ballmer and Frank had to concede to reality on that one.

[esqtvd]

Yes, we've given up on actually contending, where every win counts for seeding. Vegas has us at 40.5 wins.

Enjoy.

We already weren't contending. The disgrace of a product we were putting out on the court the last two years didn't even qualify as a pretender, let alone a contender. This year's team isn't a contender either, but they might end up being watchable, which would still be better than the last couple seasons.

If you think the same team from last year was going to magically figure it out this year when they're another year older and slower, you're nuts. Even Ballmer and Frank had to concede to reality on that one.

Yes and no. Any team that wins 50 games is a contender. But running it back with a max contract for PG is a different topic.

Enjoy your 40-win team, with our 25-year old G-League "kids." We'll still be one of the oldest teams in the league. Shoe's on the other foot now, and I promise I won't sour every game thread. I've been a Clips fan since they moved here and I'll be happy enough to keep the win streak going.

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[og15]

If the Clippers roll out a low 40's win team, then it's just jumping on a different treadmill if that's the new expectation while Harden and Kawhi remain here, lol

It's a "better" treadmill initially (first season) because as sports fans we love the unknown and potential, and people are much less whiny when there's no expectations. There are a lot of new mid 20-ish guys who maybe could be winning players, maybe not, but they are there.

This current team isn't expected to do much, but it has old stars, which generally isn't the type of team you have for no expectations, but it isn't expected to do much. On the other hand, it has potential to be better than expected. As fans in general we are much more receptive to that than a team with high expectations who doesn't meet them. It's just a psychological thing.

Kawhi is what made (makes) the Clippers a potential contender, Kawhi only being healthy for ONE playoffs with a 4.5 month break before it started (we can count 20-21 as a half) meant that contending was only a fantasy, but not actually because of any of the other things we like to complain about, which, yes, they are important, but it's because:

Denver isn't a contender without Jokic
Warriors weren't a contebde without Steph
Mavs weren't a contender without Luka
Bucks weren't a contender without Giannis
..etc, etc, etc.

Denver isn't even a contender without Murray and Mavs without Kyrie who were the second best guys.

All those surrounding things don't matter when your best player or even second best depending on the team and opponents can't play. They can be nice to complain about, the coach, the GM, the owner, the supporting cast, but in the end, the main guy goes out and what difference does it make if those other things are great, you'll still not meet expectations.

Low expectation seasons are always more fun, they get less fun when they go past one season, because most fans still want something like tanking for superstar type guy or having a contender. Clippers do have a location bonus that many teams don't have, so that helps mitigate some issues but only if cap allows, which these days, a little more difficult.

[MartinToVaught]

Any team that wins 50 games is a contender.

That's not true. Lob City won more than that almost every year and you yourself have acknowledged that they weren't contenders.

Contending implies that you have a realistic chance of winning a championship. Winning a lot of regular season games does not mean you have a realistic chance because you can feasibly do that without a championship-level roster or coach. You could maybe make the case that the first couple years of 213 were contenders, but whatever window existed for that team slammed shut when Ingles took out Kawhi. We've been treadmilling ever since.

[og15]

Any team that wins 50 games is a contender.

That's not true. Lob City won more than that almost every year and you yourself have acknowledged that they weren't contenders.

Contending implies that you have a realistic chance of winning a championship. Winning a lot of regular season games does not mean you have a realistic chance because you can feasibly do that without a championship-level roster or coach. You could maybe make the case that the first couple years of 213 were contenders, but whatever window existed for that team slammed shut when Ingles took out Kawhi. We've been treadmilling ever since.

There was a season or seasons where the 8th seed in the West was a 50 win team, no way they were contenders. So yea, simply winning 50 games means very little in terms of being a contender.

Lob City were second tier contenders and for only 2 seasons, everything would have to go right for them and wrong for opponents for them to have, for example, get to a finals. They had enough for at least 1 WCF in them, but everything went right for Houston and wrong for them. It's like if Karl Malone and Stockton had just 89-90 and 90-91

You can't be a true contender in the West at the time they played with the lack of wing talent/defense/versatility and lack of big man bench depth in any of their Doc seasons. If you just had one of those problems, and your wings were big two way guys who can defend, but your big man depth is weak, okay. Or if your wings were weak, but your big man depth (especially with one who you couldn't keep on the court late in games) is excellent, okay, but you can't have both weaknesses with a small roster (small PG, small SG, small PF).

Did they try? Sure, it's not like they didn't know the problem, but Dudley,.Hedo, Granger, Stephenson on the wings, and Big Baby and Hawes as bigs were not it and/or didn't pan out.

19-20 Clippers were a contender, but their minds were not in that playoffs as they should have been, sadly, and the two stars failed in game 7 of round 2. The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

Since then it has just been Kawhi out over and over, so...

[MartinToVaught]

19-20 Clippers were a contender, but their minds were not in that playoffs as they should have been, sadly, and the two stars failed in game 7 of round 2. The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

Since then it has just been Kawhi out over and over, so...

Honestly, 19-20 never passed the eye test for me and I was already bracing for a first/second round exit before COVID. We simply did not have the coaching or roster capable of winning a title. We had too many regular-season-only players.

20-21 was our only legit contending year and we all saw how that ended.

It's not even worth dwelling on those seasons anymore because the team had only gotten older, slower and worse since then. By the time Ballmer and Frank finally changed it up, this team had become incapable of winning a playoff series anymore. We weren't going to be running back the 20-21 team, it would have been last year's team that was already unwatchable and mediocre at best for all but one fluke month of the season despite Kawhi playing more games than usual. It boggles the mind that anyone would want to sit through another year of that.

[esqtvd]

Any team that wins 50 games is a contender.

There was a season or seasons where the 8th seed in the West was a 50 win team, no way they were contenders. So yea, simply winning 50 games means very little in terms of being a contender.

Lob City were second tier contenders and for only 2 seasons, everything would have to go right for them and wrong for opponents for them to have, for example, get to a finals. They had enough for at least 1 WCF in them, but everything went right for Houston and wrong for them. It's like if Karl Malone and Stockton had just 89-90 and 90-91

You can't be a true contender in the West at the time they played with the lack of wing talent/defense/versatility and lack of big man bench depth in any of their Doc seasons. If you just had one of those problems, and your wings were big two way guys who can defend, but your big man depth is weak, okay. Or if your wings were weak, but your big man depth (especially with one who you couldn't keep on the court late in games) is excellent, okay, but you can't have both weaknesses with a small roster (small PG, small SG, small PF).

Did they try? Sure, it's not like they didn't know the problem, but Dudley,.Hedo, Granger, Stephenson on the wings, and Big Baby and Hawes as bigs were not it and/or didn't pan out.

19-20 Clippers were a contender, but their minds were not in that playoffs as they should have been, sadly, and the two stars failed in game 7 of round 2. The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

Since then it has just been Kawhi out over and over, so...

Then let's turn it around and just say that if you DON'T win 50 games you're not a contender. The principle is the same. I'd still have liked to see what they could have done last year with a healthy Kawhi.

The O/U on this year's team is 40.5. People have been pleading to give NBA minutes to these "kids" [who are like 24+ years old now] who haven't earned them, and now they'll get their wish. If they can win 42, I'll be happy enough, I suppose.

[KL2]

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Still hasn’t practiced with the team yet. Wearing the sleeve again.

[Clemenza]

Kawhi probably misses at least the first couple of weeks of the season so lets toss out the contender talk and lets see what we have as a roster toward those 40 wins. The West is tough but to be honest, I'm not sure how healthy some of those other aging stars are going to be either. We could still be in the mix is Lue finds a rotation and 2-3 young guys or newcomers who can contribute.

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[og15]

Kawhi probably misses at least the first couple of weeks of the season so lets toss out the contender talk and lets see what we have as a roster toward those 40 wins. The West is tough but to be honest, I'm not sure how healthy some of those other aging stars are going to be either. We could still be in the mix is Lue finds a rotation and 2-3 young guys or newcomers who can contribute.

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The contenders in the West currently are generally pretty young, either early or mid-prime lead players, OKC, Denver, Dallas, Minnesota, so I definitely wouldn't bet on the Clippers health over any of those teams.

The ageing star teams are actually now more expected to be the bottom half of the playoffs, that is GS, Phoenix, LAL. Times have changed.

Clippers are looking for some diamonds in the rough for the future (assuming you can keep guys if they turn out to be good and want a new contract), and then seeing what they can do with their asset management to build something. That's a good plan, obviously not for the long term to hover in the 40's, but short term.

Also, let's see if Harden's whole best shape stuff is real and we get a resurgence. Other guys have had great seasons at his age, let's see what comes of that too with, "the system".

[esqtvd]

Kawhi probably misses at least the first couple of weeks of the season so lets toss out the contender talk and lets see what we have as a roster toward those 40 wins. The West is tough but to be honest, I'm not sure how healthy some of those other aging stars are going to be either. We could still be in the mix is Lue finds a rotation and 2-3 young guys or newcomers who can contribute.

Read on Twitter

The contenders in the West currently are generally pretty young, either early or mid-prime lead players, OKC, Denver, Dallas, Minnesota, so I definitely wouldn't bet on the Clippers health over any of those teams.

The ageing star teams are actually now more expected to be the bottom half of the playoffs, that is GS, Phoenix, LAL. Times have changed.

Clippers are looking for some diamonds in the rough for the future (assuming you can keep guys if they turn out to be good and want a new contract), and then seeing what they can do with their asset management to build something. That's a good plan, obviously not for the long term to hover in the 40's, but short term.

Also, let's see if Harden's whole best shape stuff is real and we get a resurgence. Other guys have had great seasons at his age, let's see what comes of that too with, "the system".

Plus we have no choice. Ballmer had no choice either with re-signing Harden. That's a 20-win team without Beard [and Kawhi whenever he shows up].

[Wammy Giveaway]

The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

I'm going to disagree. Clippers were more pretenders than contenders just because of their history. After the greatest 3-1 collapse in NBA history, the entire league was gunning on the Clippers to blow it up. When they rematched with Mavericks, they were thirsty for blood and took a 2-0 lead. One more win by Dallas, and the Clippers would have automatically lost because of the whole "no team has ever come back from down 3-0 in a playoff series." It was the fear of going down 3-0 that actually woke up Clippers, and Lue used that as a psychological edge against his opponents, basically trolling teams to defeat us in Game 3. The allure of a 3-0 lead and automatic series win blinded the Mavericks and Jazz, and that's how we get things like Terance Mann becoming a future face because of a legendary career high 39-point game that saved the franchise from what could have been a devastating series loss (Remember, Jazz were up 25-points in Game 6 off of an emergency Mike Conley sighting). But it didn't work on Suns in the conference finals because they had a former Clipper in Chris Paul who wanted revenge on his old team for staining his Hall Of Fame legacy; the fact that his only Finals appearance coincided with winning the series at the expense of the Clippers should be evidence enough.

If you want Clippers to behave like a contender, put some kind of fear in them. Make some wild decree that going down 3-0 means we're instantly rebuilding. If I were a general advisor, I'd say such a thing to get the team motivated. Because of their desire to be loved, respected and worshiped more than anything, I'd argue they play extremely better when they're scared straight.

[og15]

19-20 Clippers were a contender, but their minds were not in that playoffs as they should have been, sadly, and the two stars failed in game 7 of round 2. The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

Since then it has just been Kawhi out over and over, so...

Honestly, 19-20 never passed the eye test for me and I was already bracing for a first/second round exit before COVID. We simply did not have the coaching or roster capable of winning a title. We had too many regular-season-only players.

20-21 was our only legit contending year and we all saw how that ended.

It's not even worth dwelling on those seasons anymore because the team had only gotten older, slower and worse since then. By the time Ballmer and Frank finally changed it up, this team had become incapable of winning a playoff series anymore. We weren't going to be running back the 20-21 team, it would have been last year's team that was already unwatchable and mediocre at best for all but one fluke month of the season despite Kawhi playing more games than usual. It boggles the mind that anyone would want to sit through another year of that.

That's fair, but they still had a chance even with that, sometimes it's about opportunity and right moment, right time.

Any team that wins 50 games is a contender.

There was a season or seasons where the 8th seed in the West was a 50 win team, no way they were contenders. So yea, simply winning 50 games means very little in terms of being a contender.

Lob City were second tier contenders and for only 2 seasons, everything would have to go right for them and wrong for opponents for them to have, for example, get to a finals. They had enough for at least 1 WCF in them, but everything went right for Houston and wrong for them. It's like if Karl Malone and Stockton had just 89-90 and 90-91

You can't be a true contender in the West at the time they played with the lack of wing talent/defense/versatility and lack of big man bench depth in any of their Doc seasons. If you just had one of those problems, and your wings were big two way guys who can defend, but your big man depth is weak, okay. Or if your wings were weak, but your big man depth (especially with one who you couldn't keep on the court late in games) is excellent, okay, but you can't have both weaknesses with a small roster (small PG, small SG, small PF).

Did they try? Sure, it's not like they didn't know the problem, but Dudley,.Hedo, Granger, Stephenson on the wings, and Big Baby and Hawes as bigs were not it and/or didn't pan out.

19-20 Clippers were a contender, but their minds were not in that playoffs as they should have been, sadly, and the two stars failed in game 7 of round 2. The 20-21 Clippers were contenders, they beat the Suns with healthy Kawhi, and they would match up better defensively against the Bucks than the Suns could even dream of. Giannis after getting his legs back coming from injury just totally dominated the Suns and they didn't have the size or individual defense to do anything, Clippers actually did.

Since then it has just been Kawhi out over and over, so...

Then let's turn it around and just say that if you DON'T win 50 games you're not a contender. The principle is the same. I'd still have liked to see what they could have done last year with a healthy Kawhi.

The O/U on this year's team is 40.5. People have been pleading to give NBA minutes to these "kids" [who are like 24+ years old now] who haven't earned them, and now they'll get their wish. If they can win 42, I'll be happy enough, I suppose.

Certainly you aren't a contender under 50 wins unless it's some special circumstance like making some mid-season trade which totally changes your team, or injuries derailing your record and then the injured guy(s) coming back strong.

For example, people who weren't watching closely think Dallas was just a regular 50 win team and a regular 5th seed who just exceeded expectations. Those who watched closely saw a team go from a 118.8 Drtg the first 51 games, get a whole new starting lineup and go to 111.8 Drtg the last 30 games of the season. A 7 pts/100 change in defense is INSANE!

That is, they went from 25-27th in defense the first 51 games, made trades and became the 4th best defense, right after Boston.

I know many people didn't know that based on even how our fellow Clippers fans were thinking the stars being locked up by Dallas was just their lack of ability as players. Dallas was locking teams up since after they got Washington and Gafford. They got 48 minutes of rim protection and size at the 5 with Gafford/Lively and then they upgraded from one to two atheltic, versatile and long POA defenders by adding Washington to DJJ, so now they had two guys to mix and match against anyone from the 1-4 based on the matchup.

They were 28-23, jumped 20 spots in defense basically overnight and went 22-9 to end the season. The 22-9 was the actual representation of their strength as a team, which is a 58 win pace. But if we don't go more than surface, we don't see that.

Even GS in 21-22, that was not a 53 win team. They won 53 with 64 games of Curry, 46 games of Draymond and 32 games of Klay. If you had 65+ games of those three guys that year, you would have had closer to a 60 win team. But people not thinking more than surface won't take that into account. They were 34-12 when Draymond played, 61 win pace, lol.

So yes, generally you do have to cross the 50 win barrier, but crossing it is not indicative in itself if contender status also.

[esqtvd]

And the Clippers tore off that 26-7 streak right before the trading deadline, including 6 of 7 on the Grammy road trip, the only loss coming with Zubac out.

That convinced Ballmer that maybe that was the "real" 213 he dreamed of all these years. They still won 51 games. Anyway, we're arguing exceptions against the rule at this point. Clearly, the "real" 213 was never going to show up intact for the playoffs. The plug was pulled.

What's relevant [and frightening] now is this 2024-25 team without both Beard and Kawhi, which is probably gonna happen at least sometimes. It's looking ugly.