Wall blasting off who wants him ?

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#181 » by the_process » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:47 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Wall plus 4 FRP for Simmons..


Wall, Wood, Gordon, and two 1sts for Simmons and Harris?
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#182 » by Pointgod » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:59 pm

Here’s the trade:

Houston Trades: Wall, 1st round pick from Milwaukee or Brooklyn
Houston Receives: Andrew Wiggins, Jalen Brunson, Willy Cauley Stein - subsequently waived.

Golden State Trades: Andrew Wiggins
Golden State Receives: Kristaps Porzingis

Dallas Trades: Porzingis, WCS, Jalen Brunson
Dallas Recieves: 1st round pick, John Wall

Why for Houston: They break John Wall’s massive contract into an expiring contract WCS, Andrew Wiggins and a young point guard which is a position of need for them. They get immediate savings and can waive Cauley Stein. They can trade Wiggins or buy him out for less money than they would have paid Wall. The first round pick they give up is meh considering it’s from Milwaukee or Brooklyn.

Why for Golden State: Golden State wants to win now and Porzingis brings an interesting dynamic as a stretch Center. He can play with Green and form a 3 headed monster with Looney and Wiseman. They make a trade for immediate help without giving up any of their young players at the cost of taking an extra year of salary of Porzingis.

Why for Dallas: Dallas gets off of an extra year of Porzingis and avoids having to pay Jalen Brunson next year and it opens up minutes for Moses Brown. John Wall like Porzingis is an injury risk, but at least Wall relieves ball handling duties from Luka and adds another guy that can create for himself and others. It also clears up a roster spot to bring in Dragic if he gets bought out and the 1st round pick gives Dallas more flexibility in a trade since they owe a pick to the Knicks.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#183 » by gswhoops » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:26 pm

Pointgod wrote:Here’s the trade:

Houston Trades: Wall, 1st round pick from Milwaukee or Brooklyn
Houston Receives: Andrew Wiggins, Jalen Brunson, Willy Cauley Stein - subsequently waived.

Golden State Trades: Andrew Wiggins
Golden State Receives: Kristaps Porzingis

Dallas Trades: Porzingis, WCS, Jalen Brunson
Dallas Recieves: 1st round pick, John Wall

Why for Houston: They break John Wall’s massive contract into an expiring contract WCS, Andrew Wiggins and a young point guard which is a position of need for them. They get immediate savings and can waive Cauley Stein. They can trade Wiggins or buy him out for less money than they would have paid Wall. The first round pick they give up is meh considering it’s from Milwaukee or Brooklyn.

Why for Golden State: Golden State wants to win now and Porzingis brings an interesting dynamic as a stretch Center. He can play with Green and form a 3 headed monster with Looney and Wiseman. They make a trade for immediate help without giving up any of their young players at the cost of taking an extra year of salary of Porzingis.

Why for Dallas: Dallas gets off of an extra year of Porzingis and avoids having to pay Jalen Brunson next year and it opens up minutes for Moses Brown. John Wall like Porzingis is an injury risk, but at least Wall relieves ball handling duties from Luka and adds another guy that can create for himself and others. It also clears up a roster spot to bring in Dragic if he gets bought out and the 1st round pick gives Dallas more flexibility in a trade since they owe a pick to the Knicks.

KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#184 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:22 pm

gswhoops wrote:KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big


And Dallas needs the opposite now that we hope we have added a couple of competent vet wings.

But I'd much rather flip KP for Wiggins than flip KP/Brunson for Wall and the 23 Bucks 1st. Unprotected picks always have some intrigue but unless something happens to Giannis that pick is unlikely to have a chance to land in the top 4 and it would need to in order to justify this for Dallas.

Wall seems like a nut low pairing with Luka even if he somewhat returned to form. But that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. So Brunson for that pick is probably pretty fair, but Dallas should prefer the player but KP for Wall feels like a big on court loss.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#185 » by Godaddycurse » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:05 pm

Philadelphia trades: Simmons, Joe, Reed, Milton
Philadelphia receives: Wall, Bolmaro (into TPE?, MINN 2022/2024/2026 1sts, MINN 2023/2025 swap, SAC 2022 top 8 protected 1st, SAC 2024 lotto protected (x3 years) 1st

Houston trades: Wall, Wood
Houston receives: Thompson, Beverley, Prince, Joe, Reed

Sacramento trades: Thompson, SAC 2022 top 8 protected (becomes 2 seconds) 1st, SAC 2024 lotto protected (x3 years) 1st
Sacramento receives: Wood

Minnesota trades: Prince, Beverley, Bolmaro, 2022/2024/2026 1sts, 2023/2025 swap
Minnesota receives: Simmons, Milton

Why for Philly: get a stopgap PG (use as expiring next year), prospect, 5 picks and 2 swaps for simmons. Load up on ammo for next available star
Why for Houston: use wood to dump wall
Why for Sacramento: playoff push
Why for Minny: fulfill simmons dream
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#186 » by LAL1947 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:33 pm

Pointgod wrote:Here’s the trade:

Houston Trades: Wall, 1st round pick from Milwaukee or Brooklyn
Houston Receives: Andrew Wiggins, Jalen Brunson, Willy Cauley Stein - subsequently waived.

Golden State Trades: Andrew Wiggins
Golden State Receives: Kristaps Porzingis

Dallas Trades: Porzingis, WCS, Jalen Brunson
Dallas Recieves: 1st round pick, John Wall

gswhoops wrote:KP for Wiggins has been discussed to death; neither side likes it. From our perspective we definitely need a reliable wing more than a higher ceiling/lower floor big

I feel like we can't just say that KP is "higher ceiling/lower floor" than Wiggins... but must also take into account that KP is more likely to show that higher ceiling playing next to Curry, Klay, Dray, being an ideal stretch-5 next to them... while it's more likely Wiggins shows his lower floor in Dallas since he's the opposite of the guys who have thrived next to Luka, i.e., guys who are ready to shoot without hesitation. Also, rehabbing in GSW under the tutelage of Steph/Dray with no pressure to win is one thing, trying to be the #2 behind a Luka who is wanting to get past the 1st round and actually contend is another. I don't think Wiggins has that in him. KP has also been putting in work this off-season, so I'd much rather just keep him. The positive that stands out for Wiggins vs Porzingis, is that Wiggins' contract ends at the same time Jokic does... rather than a year later.

TBH, I think I'd prefer Kuzma @ 13m for Dallas than Wiggins @ 31m... since Kuzma fits better at PF and still have Porzingis. Who knows, if Kuz doesn't cement a starting SF spot (since Rui will be their PF), the Wiz might even be willing to trade him for as little as Dwight Powell + Josh Green closer to the deadline. They have Rui, Harrell, Bertans to play PF, so Kuz may become expendable.

Anyway, if Dallas isn't even getting Wiggins but is only getting Wall + an FRP that will likely be #25-30... then perhaps, both GSW and Houston need to add a pick. GSW absolutely looted Minnesota with the D'lo for Wiggins + FRP trade, lol. I don't think Dallas wants to add to that haul by giving them another better player for a lesser one... and then pay for the privilege (like Minny did) through adding Brunson + WCS. :tooth
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#187 » by gambitx777 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:46 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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You can keep saying it but it’s still wrong. Selling 33m in space for picks is better than taking on 90m for minor assets. It’s just nonsensical.


Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#188 » by gswhoops » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:49 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
You can keep saying it but it’s still wrong. Selling 33m in space for picks is better than taking on 90m for minor assets. It’s just nonsensical.


Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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It’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely, but I’ve been wrong before.

My quibble is really over the idea that this is a gamble worth taking for “minor assets.” OKC got the 16th pick to take on ~$20 million in the Kemba/Horford deal. To take on $90 million they would ask for a lot more.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#189 » by gambitx777 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:01 pm

gswhoops wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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It’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely, but I’ve been wrong before.

My quibble is really over the idea that this is a gamble worth taking for “minor assets.” OKC got the 16th pick to take on ~$20 million in the Kemba/Horford deal. To take on $90 million they would ask for a lot more.
Well walker had 74 mill owe to him he reportedly gave up 20 that's 54 mill so they basically wrote a check for 54 mill for him to go home and to take the 16 pick. That's a lot of money for a first.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#190 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:03 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
gswhoops wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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It’s possible. I don’t think it’s likely, but I’ve been wrong before.

My quibble is really over the idea that this is a gamble worth taking for “minor assets.” OKC got the 16th pick to take on ~$20 million in the Kemba/Horford deal. To take on $90 million they would ask for a lot more.
Well walker had 74 mill owe to him he reportedly gave up 20 that's 54 mill so they basically wrote a check for 54 mill for him to go home and to take the 16 pick. That's a lot of money for a first.

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They also dumped Horford’s guaranteed salary for this year and next in the process, so they paid a LOT less than $54m for that 1st.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#191 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:04 pm

sure if you disregard the over $40M due Al Horford. But of course you can't disregard it so....
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#192 » by Xman » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:09 pm

Houston is still at ground zero on a rebuild (worst record last year - added some prospects but have to see them play). I do not see them sending out any asset of value to move Wall. I guess Wood could be in a package but I think if they were willing to move Wood they would rather add picks and sit on Wall's contract (and Gordon expires in two season also).

I think they want Wall to realize he is is not wanted anywhere at his current price and take a cheaper buyout. But, they will be thrilled if he actually finds a deal where they do not take on longer term salary.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#193 » by zimpy27 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:21 pm

the_process wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Wall plus 4 FRP for Simmons..


Wall, Wood, Gordon, and two 1sts for Simmons and Harris?


I could see that. Rockets have a few stretch bigs. They don't need to keep Wood.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#194 » by gambitx777 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:11 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:sure if you disregard the over $40M due Al Horford. But of course you can't disregard it so....
Kemba had the same amount of years and more money owed.
They probably would have bought out Horford if he was as damaged as kemba but he had value, that they rehabbed by him playing well. Kembas deal was garunteed but he gave up money to make the buy out happen. They would have saved money by not doing that trade but they wouldn't have had the picks.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#195 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:16 pm

gambitx777 wrote: They would have saved money by not doing that trade but they wouldn't have had the picks.


Isn't this exactly what everyone is telling you? They would have saved ~15m by not doing the trade. Not 90m. Not 60m.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#196 » by gambitx777 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
gambitx777 wrote: They would have saved money by not doing that trade but they wouldn't have had the picks.


Isn't this exactly what everyone is telling you? They would have saved ~15m by not doing the trade. Not 90m. Not 60m.
They were more than likely never going to buy out Horford because he had value. They had no other options with kemba. He didn't wanna play there, his value was at an all time low, they had to buy him out or let him sit at home, the second they traded for him they said this money is worth taking on for that pick. That's how that worked.


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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#197 » by jbk1234 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
You can keep saying it but it’s still wrong. Selling 33m in space for picks is better than taking on 90m for minor assets. It’s just nonsensical.


Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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Was he traded for positive value? I might give you neutral value.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#198 » by HartfordWhalers » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:37 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:
Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
That what how many people here said about Westbrook? I said for months that Westbrook would get traded for positive value and he was. So I'll hold onto the idea that it would be an gamble for taking for OKC. Not only because I think it is but they've shown willingness to both A) rehab player value and B) take on large amounts of buy out money for picks. Which if you're taking on wall are you're two options. That's the game, and OKC has shown that's how they think.

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Was he traded for positive value? I might give you neutral value.

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I had every player in the trade for Westbrook as negative value; although they did get a first. Altogether, I had it negative; although if you have Kuzma as more valuable than Simmons I guess It was massive value?
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#199 » by Devilanche » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:45 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
gambitx777 wrote: They would have saved money by not doing that trade but they wouldn't have had the picks.


Isn't this exactly what everyone is telling you? They would have saved ~15m by not doing the trade. Not 90m. Not 60m.

He’s just ignoring the fact that OKC got 1 first round pick for Kemba salary - Horford salary .

And somehow if we were willing to take on that incremental Kemba salary over Horford that means we are now willing to take on Wall FULL 90m salary
(Less favors 20m salary) for minor assets.

I would have still asked for one first if I was giving up Kemba guaranteed salary for Wall’s

Edit: for interest of completeness included favors 20m inside as it is the only way a trade will work . Favors salary however is MLE level. Easily move for neutral value or a second as an expiring
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#200 » by NYG » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:30 am

What pick(s) gets Wall and House for KP, Burke and Powell done for Houston?

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