Dwyane Wade Appreciation Thread

[contract]

I blame Riley and Wade. They both have regret.

Pat is smoking a Cuban cigar, drinking Champagne, and laughing maniacally as "Bitch better have my money" plays on a loop.

[contract]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

Pat just ran Wade off so he'd have money to go whale hunting. I'm expecting whales.

[Shewasfly]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

What do you think about 2 guards historically dropping off after the age of 34? Both Kobe and MJ (For different reasons) did not have good seasons after the age of 34. In fact they were both awful from there on out.

Here is a list of guards sorted by WS ages 35+: http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

The top 20 are almost entirely PG's other than Ray who was an excellent 3pt shooter. The track record for athletic non shooting 2 guards post 35 is not good.

Post 36? http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

Even worse, Ray and Manu while effective yet essentially turned into bench players playing 22 and 25mpg respectively.

Post 37? http://bkref.com/tiny/JeL6y

Again PG's and bench players. You're a sensible guy gom, $60mill is a lot to commit when the next 3 seasons are likely to play out that way. Personally I think Wade will be decent this season 17 4 and 3 on 50TS% but after this season we'll see a major drop off.

IDK man, whether he stayed or left we still wouldn't have been very good.

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

[Hallstar]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

Pat just ran Wade off so he'd have money to go whale hunting. I'm expecting whales.

Thank you.

If we don't get Westbrook, that's the 4th year of off season failure

[QUIZ]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't really come up with any shooting guards having good seasons post 35. The best example would be Ray Allen and he was a 3pt specialist averaging 16ppg. Last season Wade had the lowest efficiency of his entire career and the lowest PER since his rookie season.

Now you could just look at this and say that it's all just my agenda talking... or you could acknowledge that the decline started in 2012 and has continued without stopping since. Now could Wade defy the odds like Tom Brady and continue performing at a high level? Yeah, but history and his own stats tell us that by the 2017 season he'll be a bench player playing around 26mpg.

Which is where he was heading if he had stayed here anyway. Spo probably would've got him down to 29mpg this season.

[unowen85]

Wade's belief is greater than your doubt.

[Hallstar]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't really come up with any shooting guards having good seasons post 35. The best example would be Ray Allen and he was a 3pt specialist averaging 16ppg. Last season Wade had the lowest efficiency of his entire career and the lowest PER since his rookie season.

Now you could just look at this and say that it's all just my agenda talking... or you could acknowledge that the decline started in 2012 and has continued without stopping since. Now could Wade defy the odds like Tom Brady and continue performing at a high level? Yeah, but history and his own stats tell us that by the 2017 season he'll be a bench player playing around 26mpg.

Which is where he was heading if he had stayed here anyway. Spo probably would've got him down to 29mpg this season.

The lowest per since his rookie season was 3rd among SGs though

Riley owes us a superstar if Wade is who would "hold us back"

[gom]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

What do you think about 2 guards historically dropping off after the age of 34? Both Kobe and MJ (For different reasons) did not have good seasons after the age of 34. In fact they were both awful from there on out.

Here is a list of guards sorted by WS ages 35+: http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

The top 20 are almost entirely PG's other than Ray who was an excellent 3pt shooter. The track record for athletic non shooting 2 guards post 35 is not good.

Post 36? http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

Even worse, Ray and Manu while effective yet essentially turned into bench players playing 22 and 25mpg respectively.

Post 37? http://bkref.com/tiny/JeL6y

Again PG's and bench players. You're a sensible guy gom, $60mill is a lot to commit when the next 3 seasons are likely to play out that way. Personally I think Wade will be decent this season 17 4 and 3 on 50TS% but after this season we'll see a major drop off.

IDK man, whether he stayed or left we still wouldn't have been very good.

I definitely agree his productivity would have likely dived if not this year, then next year. I also believe, however, that we're not winning anything soon anyway, so his production is hardly an issue anyhow.

Riley wants to win now. I understand his motivation. He's at the end of his career too, and he also has the same "special motivation" that Lebron has, right?

Now that the Kobe retirement tour is done I think you're seeing a different take by Laker's fans, a feeling of pride. Also their team has a good future (not saying ours doesn't.)

[contract]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

Pat just ran Wade off so he'd have money to go whale hunting. I'm expecting whales.

Thank you.

If we don't get Westbrook, that's the 4th year of off season failure

Signing Westbrook would mean having to flip Dragic for another star player. Westbrook and Whiteside alone aren't winning anything.

[Hallstar]

Pat just ran Wade off so he'd have money to go whale hunting. I'm expecting whales.

Thank you.

If we don't get Westbrook, that's the 4th year of off season failure

Signing Westbrook would mean having to flip Dragic for another star player. Westbrook and Whiteside alone aren't winning anything.

Oh I know, but it's better than the Dragic, Winslow, picks for Westbrook rental I see coming

[contract]

Thank you.

If we don't get Westbrook, that's the 4th year of off season failure

Signing Westbrook would mean having to flip Dragic for another star player. Westbrook and Whiteside alone aren't winning anything.

Oh I know, but it's better than the Dragic, Winslow, picks for Westbrook rental I see coming

Pat wouldn't make the trade without assurances from Westbrook that he'd re-sign here. Besides, I don't think we have any picks that we can trade anytime soon.

[Hallstar]

Signing Westbrook would mean having to flip Dragic for another star player. Westbrook and Whiteside alone aren't winning anything.

Oh I know, but it's better than the Dragic, Winslow, picks for Westbrook rental I see coming

Pat wouldn't make the trade without assurances from Westbrook that he'd re-sign here.

Well, we know what assurances are worth these days

[KingDavid]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

What do you think about 2 guards historically dropping off after the age of 34? Both Kobe and MJ (For different reasons) did not have good seasons after the age of 34. In fact they were both awful from there on out.

Here is a list of guards sorted by WS ages 35+: http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

The top 20 are almost entirely PG's other than Ray who was an excellent 3pt shooter. The track record for athletic non shooting 2 guards post 35 is not good.

Post 36? http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

Even worse, Ray and Manu while effective yet essentially turned into bench players playing 22 and 25mpg respectively.

Post 37? http://bkref.com/tiny/JeL6y

Again PG's and bench players. You're a sensible guy gom, $60mill is a lot to commit when the next 3 seasons are likely to play out that way. Personally I think Wade will be decent this season 17 4 and 3 on 50TS% but after this season we'll see a major drop off.

IDK man, whether he stayed or left we still wouldn't have been very good.

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

How many of them had their Mcl removed in college? The reason why Wade's minutes are low at this age has a lot to do with injury.

Maybe he gets a great 3pt shot and plays pg down the line? That could extend his career. That could have helped years ago...he's always been a great leader. All the damage comes from landing.

Mj playing sf is a strawman. Kobe played sf one year as well.

I've seen examples of it from players in their 30s. You crash and burn around that age as a professional athlete. Wade's iq is really high though. I think he makes another adjustment in his game.

[KingDavid]

Oh I know, but it's better than the Dragic, Winslow, picks for Westbrook rental I see coming

Pat wouldn't make the trade without assurances from Westbrook that he'd re-sign here.

Well, we know what assurances are worth these days

Different situation.

Dragic comes to mind. He didn't even fool around with other teams.

[KingDavid]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't really come up with any shooting guards having good seasons post 35. The best example would be Ray Allen and he was a 3pt specialist averaging 16ppg. Last season Wade had the lowest efficiency of his entire career and the lowest PER since his rookie season.

Now you could just look at this and say that it's all just my agenda talking... or you could acknowledge that the decline started in 2012 and has continued without stopping since. Now could Wade defy the odds like Tom Brady and continue performing at a high level? Yeah, but history and his own stats tell us that by the 2017 season he'll be a bench player playing around 26mpg.

Which is where he was heading if he had stayed here anyway. Spo probably would've got him down to 29mpg this season.

Yep.

Sad realities. Happens in the NFL too. If you're not an elite qb, making it beyond 32 and productive is a miracle.

[BBallFreak]

Oh I know, but it's better than the Dragic, Winslow, picks for Westbrook rental I see coming

Pat wouldn't make the trade without assurances from Westbrook that he'd re-sign here.

Well, we know what assurances are worth these days

See Harden, James

[Shewasfly]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't really come up with any shooting guards having good seasons post 35. The best example would be Ray Allen and he was a 3pt specialist averaging 16ppg. Last season Wade had the lowest efficiency of his entire career and the lowest PER since his rookie season.

Now you could just look at this and say that it's all just my agenda talking... or you could acknowledge that the decline started in 2012 and has continued without stopping since. Now could Wade defy the odds like Tom Brady and continue performing at a high level? Yeah, but history and his own stats tell us that by the 2017 season he'll be a bench player playing around 26mpg.

Which is where he was heading if he had stayed here anyway. Spo probably would've got him down to 29mpg this season.

I'm just telling you that you're using premises that do not seem to me to tell the whole story. And you continue to do so. I could get into a debate with you about putting some context to that "lowest efficiency of his entire career" number but I don't really see the point.

I don't see anything in his stats that say he's going to be a bench player other than your age and no other factors comparisons. But if he is, hey he'll be one of many whom Riley has committed to paying huge amounts of money for the next 3+ years. And as its been said a bunch of times already, paying Wade did nothing to stop us from winning now or in the near future. It just ensured we will lose.

[Shewasfly]

3/60 would have closed the deal. We could have matched what the Bulls offered too if we would have waived McRoberts and then stretched him (assuming no team picked him up.)

I agree pretty much with everything Albert has to say here:

http://heathoops.com/2016/07/pat-riley-addresses-the-miami-heat-summer/#more-29278

In my opinion, however, our faith is misplaced in entertaining the 2017 Summer free agency market. I prefer to build the team internally. My fear is that we will dump assets for rentals (like one year of Westbrook) and try to win now, rather than have the patience to collect ourselves and work from a position of strength.

What do you think about 2 guards historically dropping off after the age of 34? Both Kobe and MJ (For different reasons) did not have good seasons after the age of 34. In fact they were both awful from there on out.

Here is a list of guards sorted by WS ages 35+: http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

The top 20 are almost entirely PG's other than Ray who was an excellent 3pt shooter. The track record for athletic non shooting 2 guards post 35 is not good.

Post 36? http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

Even worse, Ray and Manu while effective yet essentially turned into bench players playing 22 and 25mpg respectively.

Post 37? http://bkref.com/tiny/JeL6y

Again PG's and bench players. You're a sensible guy gom, $60mill is a lot to commit when the next 3 seasons are likely to play out that way. Personally I think Wade will be decent this season 17 4 and 3 on 50TS% but after this season we'll see a major drop off.

IDK man, whether he stayed or left we still wouldn't have been very good.

I definitely agree his productivity would have likely dived if not this year, then next year. I also believe, however, that we're not winning anything soon anyway, so his production is hardly an issue anyhow.

Riley wants to win now. I understand his motivation. He's at the end of his career too, and he also has the same "special motivation" that Lebron has, right?

Now that the Kobe retirement tour is done I think you're seeing a different take by Laker's fans, a feeling of pride. Also their team has a good future (not saying ours doesn't.)

If Pat let Wade leave because he wants to win now then his moves are even dumber than I initially thought.

I don't think the next few off seasons bode any better than the last 3 poor ones did, but I'm curious to see the excuses he will get.

[Shewasfly]

What do you think about 2 guards historically dropping off after the age of 34? Both Kobe and MJ (For different reasons) did not have good seasons after the age of 34. In fact they were both awful from there on out.

Here is a list of guards sorted by WS ages 35+: http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

The top 20 are almost entirely PG's other than Ray who was an excellent 3pt shooter. The track record for athletic non shooting 2 guards post 35 is not good.

Post 36? http://bkref.com/tiny/scPFe

Even worse, Ray and Manu while effective yet essentially turned into bench players playing 22 and 25mpg respectively.

Post 37? http://bkref.com/tiny/JeL6y

Again PG's and bench players. You're a sensible guy gom, $60mill is a lot to commit when the next 3 seasons are likely to play out that way. Personally I think Wade will be decent this season 17 4 and 3 on 50TS% but after this season we'll see a major drop off.

IDK man, whether he stayed or left we still wouldn't have been very good.

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

How many of them had their Mcl removed in college?

This has zero to do with the argument that was presented which was essentially "age age age age age". Injury history is actually a valid theory. Questions around how Wade's knee will hold up would be the real issue. If it wasn't for that and he still had the same minutes played, I'd be much more sure to say he'll be reasonably efficient for the next 2 season. I think the closest situation in which a star player has played so few minutes is Grant Hill, and he surged for a couple of years (in regards to his own production) after 35.

The rest of your post also doesn't seem to address what was originally being talked about so I skipped it.

[KingDavid]

Lots of information on that website. I see that by 35, Kobe had played over 45,000 minutes. Next year, Wade will have played barely over 30,000. All the other guys on the lists that you shared have considerably lower minutes played as well. I'm not saying this is definitely why the drop offs happen, but I find it interesting that with all the analytics people want to use these days for their own agendas, they have issues actually being analytical.

Also MJ shouldn't be in the conversation since he was 38 when he played again, but either way he was classified as SF when he came back so he wouldn't have made it to your list no matter what.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't really come up with any shooting guards having good seasons post 35. The best example would be Ray Allen and he was a 3pt specialist averaging 16ppg. Last season Wade had the lowest efficiency of his entire career and the lowest PER since his rookie season.

Now you could just look at this and say that it's all just my agenda talking... or you could acknowledge that the decline started in 2012 and has continued without stopping since. Now could Wade defy the odds like Tom Brady and continue performing at a high level? Yeah, but history and his own stats tell us that by the 2017 season he'll be a bench player playing around 26mpg.

Which is where he was heading if he had stayed here anyway. Spo probably would've got him down to 29mpg this season.

The lowest per since his rookie season was 3rd among SGs though

Riley owes us a superstar if Wade is who would "hold us back"

I don't agree with losing Wade.

But if you want to make sense of it for the sake of discussion; we lost Deng and JJ. We're not picking up a player of Luol's caliber off the waiver wire. Having Wade seemingly without Bosh for another half season would likely mean we make the playoffs just to be first round fodder. So now we're not bad enough to be in the lottery AND we're not good enough to contend. Rinse, repeat for either 2/50 or 3/60.