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Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#301 » by soxperry » Fri Mar 14, 2025 6:02 pm

emunney wrote:
soxperry wrote:
German Athens wrote:I could see Rollins looking like a young Brogdon here for us as early as next season, and I think the road map longer term could be something like Derrick White.

He has a really solid set of skills - POA defense, off-ball defensive disruptor due to his absurd length and solid bounce, natural looking pull-up game, athleticism/length to finish at the rim.


Yes, Derrick White is the absolute ceiling for him but its extremely unlikely. The players in this league that are very good and contribute to winning are just so rare. even if he had all the physical tools of White which he does not at this time, there is the mental aspect of it. That seems kind of like a "you either have it or you don't" situation. Jrue has it too. Rollins just seems like a guy in that respect.


Not trying to pick on you but this is a pet peeve of mine. The ceiling of every player is dramatically higher than people tend to assume. Rollins is far advanced compared to White at the same age (White was still at Colorado). So if his absolute ceiling is White, what was White's absolute ceiling and why did he shatter it?


Just because there are players who occasionally far exceed what we thought was possible for them does not mean that most or even half of players have that potential. It's an outlier thing. For every Derrick White there are probably hundreds of guys who fall somewhere in the spectrum between total failure and slightly exceeding expectations.

So just because anything is possible with any given player, the odds are so incredibly low of breaking a consensus ceiling that it's almost useless to consider for practical purposes.

Rollins can be useful, i hope he is. We are not used to seeing young players actually develop on this team so it's going to hit like crack if he can simply do what he's already doing and also hit 38 to 40% from 3.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#302 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Mar 14, 2025 6:09 pm

The thing with Rollins is figuring out how much the shoulder injury is really affecting him, because he's looked like a shell on offense the last couple months. No burst off the dribble, isn't looking for his shot, etc. Was that early season stretch a promising sign of development and things to come? Or was it a small sample size anomaly?
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#303 » by pifhluk23 » Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:35 pm

M-C-G wrote:
emunney wrote:One crazy thing about Rollins is that he's got as many blocks this season (13) as he had in his two years at Toledo, in less than a quarter of the minutes.


A Rollins - KPJ - GTJ - Kuzma - Giannis line up would seem incredibly disruptive defensively with steal, blocks and deflections. Not sure if we have tried it much but that is a tough defense


Might work in the regular season but in the playoffs that lineup clogs the paint big time. Rollins Kuzma Giannis are left open for as many 3s as they want. Probably leave KPJ too, guys have to prove they can hit high volume 3s at a good % and GTJ only one in that lineup whose proven he can do it.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#304 » by soxperry » Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:54 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The thing with Rollins is figuring out how much the shoulder injury is really affecting him, because he's looked like a shell on offense the last couple months. No burst off the dribble, isn't looking for his shot, etc. Was that early season stretch a promising sign of development and things to come? Or was it a small sample size anomaly?


yeah, impossible to say, but i suspect it was some early season soft defense that was helping him look good. he does have some moves but they seem to work better against weaker competition. i think the lack of aggression from him now is more a result of failed results against the better players. now he's more reluctant. that doesn't mean he can't get better, though.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#305 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:24 pm

M-C-G wrote:If this roster doesn’t work, wonder if they are thinking about KPJ as the PG of the future and move Dame this off-season


It's such a no brainer. Get a top 2 way player at SG or SF, and we have a really interesting team.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#306 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:30 pm

M-C-G wrote:I think we need to be prepared we are closer to Doc being promoted to POBO than we are to him being fired. I don’t think they brought him here to coach for a decade.


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Worst case scenario, Doc bumped up and Ham as the new coach.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#307 » by ShootingtheJ » Fri Mar 14, 2025 10:40 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
M-C-G wrote:I think we need to be prepared we are closer to Doc being promoted to POBO than we are to him being fired. I don’t think they brought him here to coach for a decade.


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Worst case scenario, Doc bumped up and Ham as the new coach.


Yeah, I'd much rather Doc just coach a few more years. Hamm is a disaster.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#308 » by emunney » Sat Mar 15, 2025 1:13 am

I didn't see that the Herd got John Butler Jr. He's always been kind of intriguing, but I'll remember him best for the time I was watching an FSU game on YouTube and when the resolution dropped, his legs vanished.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#309 » by Profound23 » Sat Mar 15, 2025 1:02 pm

Lopez has played some horrible games, but every once in a while he looks like Lopez of old. Hopefully he is just pacing himself and just plays consistent basketball in the playoffs.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#310 » by GoldenAntlers » Sat Mar 15, 2025 1:18 pm

Profound23 wrote:Lopez has played some horrible games, but every once in a while he looks like Lopez of old. Hopefully he is just pacing himself and just plays consistent basketball in the playoffs.
I do think there is a certain amount of that happening across the team as a whole. All I ask for is health in the playoffs. Can beat anybody in 7.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#311 » by German Athens » Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:35 pm

This might be too good for us, but I’ve been trying a number of 4-way trades.

Milwaukee out: Dame, ‘31 1st
Milwaukee in: Desmond Bane, Reed Sheppard, Jock Landale

Why for us?
We give up Dame and a future 1st for a player who’s just under the all-star tier and still only 26, and a player we think could be the pg of our future.

Houston out: Jabari Smith, Reed Sheppard, Dillon Brooks
Houston in: Dame

Why for Houston?
They get the 2nd best player in the deal without giving up any 1sts or any of their main core players.

Memphis out: Bane, Clarke, ‘26 1st
Memphis in: KD

Why for Memphis?
This is the one that I think the value is probably most off for, but Memphis was rumored to have interest in Jimmy, and looking at their cap sheet, I think those deals probably would have included Bane. They’re a team that’s been trying to contend for longer than you realize - they aren’t in the young upstart phase anymore - and they may feel the pressure to get over the hump.

KD is the best player in the deal, and still probably a top 10 guy.


Phoenix out: KD
Phoenix in: Jabari Smith, Brandon Clarke, Dillon Brooks, ‘26 Memphis 1st, ‘31 Milwaukee 1st

Why for Phoenix?
They notably want to re-tool their roster around Booker. This gives them players who would fit along side him, rather than overlap, and a couple 1sts to go fishing again later.

I don’t think they’d want Bane, because he has a good deal of positional overlap with Booker and Beal, but maybe they’d be able to get more for him.


___________

Where’s the value off?
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#312 » by BigO » Sat Mar 15, 2025 3:21 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Your obnoxious Bud hatred aside, we used one 1st round draft pick to turn Delly and Henson into George Hill (ended up being the Kevin Porter pick ironically enough), and that was even after we got out to a 7-0 start that year. The turnaround had nothing to do with having draft assets and everything to do with hitting a home-run on a couple margins moves, if you even bothered to look it up. We already had zero cap space and we didn't exhaust the draft pick/asset chest until the Jrue trade 2-years later.


Your obnoxious Bud idolatry aside
, we had a healthy Khris Middleton, signed a younger Brook Lopez, a younger Bobby Portis and Giannis just hitting his prime. If your point is that Bud was an improvement over Kidd, well, ok.

Lopez himself, took the Bucks from a mediocre defensive team to near the top. Under Bud,if you bothered to look it up, when Lopez was out for the season, the Bucks defense declined to middle of the league, despite having Giannis, Jrue and Middleton. Sports success is based on talent.

The key to the Bucks decline is Khris Middleton being gone. If you think the Bucks would be better under Bud now, that's just irrational love.Nothing wrong with irrational love.

And just ignore the decline of Phoenix under Bud. I knew when a really good coach was fired (Frank Vogel) and replaced with Bud, that this was not going to work out.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#313 » by German Athens » Sat Mar 15, 2025 3:43 pm

BigO wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Your obnoxious Bud hatred aside, we used one 1st round draft pick to turn Delly and Henson into George Hill (ended up being the Kevin Porter pick ironically enough), and that was even after we got out to a 7-0 start that year. The turnaround had nothing to do with having draft assets and everything to do with hitting a home-run on a couple margins moves, if you even bothered to look it up. We already had zero cap space and we didn't exhaust the draft pick/asset chest until the Jrue trade 2-years later.


Your obnoxious Bud idolatry aside
, we had a healthy Khris Middleton, signed a younger Brook Lopez, a younger Bobby Portis and Giannis just hitting his prime. If your point is that Bud was an improvement over Kidd, well, ok.

Lopez himself, took the Bucks from a mediocre defensive team to near the top. Under Bud,if you bothered to look it up, when Lopez was out for the season, the Bucks defense declined to middle of the league, despite having Giannis, Jrue and Middleton. Sports success is based on talent.

The key to the Bucks decline is Khris Middleton being gone. If you think the Bucks would be better under Bud now, that's just irrational love.Nothing wrong with irrational love.

And just ignore the decline of Phoenix under Bud. I knew when a really good coach was fired (Frank Vogel) and replaced with Bud, that this was not going to work out.


Wasn’t the point that a good off-season can quickly change things? Then you mentioned that we don’t have draft assets and are in a tough spot with the cap.

Ron then pointed out that between 2018 and 2019, we went from Kidd to Bud, and added Brook with the BAE. Then, during the season, we traded one first for George Hill - we have a 1st to trade now, too.

We also didn’t sign Bobby that off-season - that happened a few seasons later, and honestly supports Ron’s point as well. That was a BAE signing.

If we want, we could use the full-MLE and the BAE this off-season.

We didn’t use the draft assets that we can’t presently replicate until we traded for Jrue, but that was after we already had our massive improvement and were a 60+ win team.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#314 » by Bernman » Sat Mar 15, 2025 3:51 pm

It's interesting Kuz acknowledged he developed bad habits in DC he needs to shake. In the meantime, we shouldn't have sunk-cost fallacy we made a significant trade for him so he needs to start immediately. Khris didn't. And we have to think of the team 1st.

A good strategy could be to have Kuz as the 6th man, and when Brook's struggling against smaller guys/shooters, have Kuz come in early for him. Play the Giannis at the 5 look. I hope Doc hasn't done it at this point to save Giannis' body for the postseason.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#315 » by Dick Tate » Sat Mar 15, 2025 4:19 pm

I too would prefer Kuzma as 6th man. Start Porter and Prince.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#316 » by Bucksmaniac » Sat Mar 15, 2025 4:31 pm

BigO wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Your obnoxious Bud hatred aside, we used one 1st round draft pick to turn Delly and Henson into George Hill (ended up being the Kevin Porter pick ironically enough), and that was even after we got out to a 7-0 start that year. The turnaround had nothing to do with having draft assets and everything to do with hitting a home-run on a couple margins moves, if you even bothered to look it up. We already had zero cap space and we didn't exhaust the draft pick/asset chest until the Jrue trade 2-years later.


Your obnoxious Bud idolatry aside
, we had a healthy Khris Middleton, signed a younger Brook Lopez, a younger Bobby Portis and Giannis just hitting his prime. If your point is that Bud was an improvement over Kidd, well, ok.

Lopez himself, took the Bucks from a mediocre defensive team to near the top. Under Bud,if you bothered to look it up, when Lopez was out for the season, the Bucks defense declined to middle of the league, despite having Giannis, Jrue and Middleton. Sports success is based on talent.

The key to the Bucks decline is Khris Middleton being gone. If you think the Bucks would be better under Bud now, that's just irrational love.Nothing wrong with irrational love.

And just ignore the decline of Phoenix under Bud. I knew when a really good coach was fired (Frank Vogel) and replaced with Bud, that this was not going to work out.


I think Brook and really good health, along with a coaching bump vs Kidd (not hard to do) were the biggest reasons for the 2018-19 turnaround. Having a very good offensive system which was largely a Bud thing played a major part too.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#317 » by German Athens » Sat Mar 15, 2025 5:04 pm

Periodically, I have this fear pop up where I don’t want to get rid of the GM or the Coach because it took so long for them to realize that you can play a mobile non-shooting big next to Giannis (now - sims), or that you can go small and switch actions (2021- pj tucker), etc. and I don’t want to bring someone in just to start everything over.

Then I snap out of it, and realize they’re paid millions of dollars to figure this stuff out, and if large swathes of the Bucks board are clamoring for it, a competent GM/Coach should probably be able to come to the same conclusions.

A nice little snapshot of a Bucks fan’s mental state. Thanks for the therapy session, guys.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#318 » by Prez » Sat Mar 15, 2025 5:32 pm

I know we're coming off a good take care of business win but the 3 losses preceding it have kinda sapped a lot of my optimism for the season if I'm being honest. Not in the sense that we're totally cooked or anything, but the realization is hitting me that this is a good team, even very good at times, but the championship upside...idk man.

Giannis/Dame are incredible and we have a decent-ish cast of support players, but there's a distinct lack of shot creation/playmaking outside of the top 2 guys, and the biggest thing for me...Doc is a dumb offensive coach and I still don't trust his lineup decisions. We're in mid-March and dude is still starting a suboptimal starting 5. We have several two guards on the roster that fit well in the starting 5 and dude is opting to start Taurean Prince at the 2. I watch the creativity of Cleveland's offense in comparison to ours and it makes me physically ill thinking that Atkinson was one of our finalists before we hired the doofus.

It would be really really cool if they blew the doors off Indy tonight lol. Would make me feel a lot better.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#319 » by Ron Swanson » Sat Mar 15, 2025 6:45 pm

German Athens wrote:
BigO wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Your obnoxious Bud hatred aside, we used one 1st round draft pick to turn Delly and Henson into George Hill (ended up being the Kevin Porter pick ironically enough), and that was even after we got out to a 7-0 start that year. The turnaround had nothing to do with having draft assets and everything to do with hitting a home-run on a couple margins moves, if you even bothered to look it up. We already had zero cap space and we didn't exhaust the draft pick/asset chest until the Jrue trade 2-years later.


Your obnoxious Bud idolatry aside
, we had a healthy Khris Middleton, signed a younger Brook Lopez, a younger Bobby Portis and Giannis just hitting his prime. If your point is that Bud was an improvement over Kidd, well, ok.

Lopez himself, took the Bucks from a mediocre defensive team to near the top. Under Bud,if you bothered to look it up, when Lopez was out for the season, the Bucks defense declined to middle of the league, despite having Giannis, Jrue and Middleton. Sports success is based on talent.

The key to the Bucks decline is Khris Middleton being gone. If you think the Bucks would be better under Bud now, that's just irrational love.Nothing wrong with irrational love.

And just ignore the decline of Phoenix under Bud. I knew when a really good coach was fired (Frank Vogel) and replaced with Bud, that this was not going to work out.


Wasn’t the point that a good off-season can quickly change things? Then you mentioned that we don’t have draft assets and are in a tough spot with the cap.

Ron then pointed out that between 2018 and 2019, we went from Kidd to Bud, and added Brook with the BAE. Then, during the season, we traded one first for George Hill - we have a 1st to trade now, too.

We also didn’t sign Bobby that off-season - that happened a few seasons later, and honestly supports Ron’s point as well. That was a BAE signing.

If we want, we could use the full-MLE and the BAE this off-season.

We didn’t use the draft assets that we can’t presently replicate until we traded for Jrue, but that was after we already had our massive improvement and were a 60+ win team.


I wouldn’t even bother when dude still thinks that Atkinson is “overrated” and is one of the few posters still giving excuses for Doc. Legitimately don’t get how someone could still question how important coaching is to a roster with this amount of evidence the past 8-years. I guess it’s all just a magical coincidence to some people.
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Re: Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Rollins Converted to Standard Contract, Will be a RFA 

Post#320 » by ReasonablySober » Sat Mar 15, 2025 6:48 pm

Didn't you just say you wouldn't trade a 1st for any coach?

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