Trade Talk (Part Eight)

[SO_MONEY]

The PG hole is going to be filled by Ben. The guy that is top on the list to find 3pt shooters for example.
And in this case, he's going to be in a way better situation with KAT than Embiid. And a perfect guard in Beverley to play alongside.
There is nothing to sabotage here because we don't have that much to sabotage something.
We have to make moves, real moves. And is not a move of desperation, is to make a move to get better right away.

Another non-playoff season and KAT is demanding a trade at end of the season with 2 years left on his contract, no doubt about that.

Ben is not a PG and I wouldn't want him and would be unwilling to trade for him at all if that is where he is playing. The only place he belongs is PF.

Ben can be many things, one of them is to be one of the best playmakers in the league.
He can play several positions. At any of those positions one thing is for sure, he's better than Dlo at every single one.

Ummm.

I don't want either player, but if it is PG, I take Russell. Also can move on from his contract sooner or see if he will extend for less. Simmons is borderline unplayable at PG.

[Klomp]

It isn't wrong though when that young "all-star" shouldn't be an all-star, hope for improvement is diminished and is paid $35mil.

Since when did it turn to arguing that Ben shouldn't be an all-star?

[SO_MONEY]

It isn't wrong though when that young "all-star" shouldn't be an all-star, hope for improvement is diminished and is paid $35mil.

Since when did it turn to arguing that Ben shouldn't be an all-star?

I guess forever. I don't think he should have ever been an all-star.

[Dewey]

It isn't wrong though when that young "all-star" shouldn't be an all-star, hope for improvement is diminished and is paid $35mil.

Since when did it turn to arguing that Ben shouldn't be an all-star?

Haha … like someone yelling in forest hoping someone yells back

[_AIJ_]

It isn't wrong though when that young "all-star" shouldn't be an all-star, hope for improvement is diminished and is paid $35mil.

Since when did it turn to arguing that Ben shouldn't be an all-star?

I guess forever. I don't think he should have ever been an all-star.

Lol

[karch34]

My two cents. Maybe looking at it from a perspective of who’s contract is appropriate is a good starting point?

Right now LeBron, Kahwi, Curry, Giannis, Durant, and Jokic might be the only unassailable ones in all seriousness. Not to say others are bad but think you could poke holes in almost any non rookie contract if you wanted to. Not to say the other players suck as I’m sure that more than one team would’ve overpaid then and would fall over themselves to do it now because they bring something needed.

Simmons is talented. He makes a lot of money. He also has glaring weaknesses. Question in my mind is if what he does provide, doing it in a different role, and what it costs (and what that takes away) move the needle enough. I think that’s what most people are trying to discuss it just doesn’t seem like it’s coming across that way with all the taking it personally discussions.

[younggunsmn]

So here is my ten cents on Simmons.

Anyone who is capable of being the 2nd best player on an average playoff team, on a basic max (not supermax or vet supermax) contract technically is not overpaid.
That is the line I draw for whether anyone on a max contract is "overpaid" or becomes a "bad contract".
If you are only CAPABLE of being a 3rd wheel or less on a good team (looking at you Wiggins and Russell (I don't consider that Nets team Russell snuck into the playoffs with to be a playoff caliber team), you don't deserve a max contract.
The Nets have 3 #1's, Lowry on the Heat has been a solid #2 for years, some teams are just lucky.

So where does that leave SImmons? He has been that guy before and I believe he will be again. Look at that sixers roster last year and compare it to some of the previous ones. He desperately needed another guard next to him who was a threat at all 3 levels like Redick previously. Anyone who consistently gets you 16+ PPG on 11-12 FGA with All-NBA defense at 6'10" with solid rebounding and passing is a pretty valuable player. Forgetting Simmons, read that last sentence again and ask yourself, isn't that the exact type of player we've been trying to put next to KAT?

So the next question becomes what is he worth on the trade market? Morey wants an Alpha guard to put with Embiid and Harris.
SInce Russell is a no and Ant a hell no from this front office, where does that leave us?

There aren't any of those guys available right now. Morey is hoping for a LIllard or Beal, but they aren't on the table.
Beal can become a FA after the season so he might be available at the deadline, but there reportedly will only be 3 teams with cap space next summer (OKC, SA and ORL), and none will be a FA destination.
The best offers right now have reportedly included McCollum and Hield.
You have to think something along the lines of Beasley+exprings+2 1sts would be more attractive than that.
If we can't give them what they want, we can give them currency to get what they want. Our own future picks in a loaded western conference are pretty valuable currency. It gives them picks+ salary match to chase beal at the deadline or to move salary next summer to sign him outright.

Regarding Simmons contract hamstringing us:
Point 1: We are locked into Russel for 2 years, KAT for 3, and have ANT on a rookie deal for 3 more years. Simmons has 4 guaranteed years left. We have 2 years left of the KAT/D-Lo experiment. At that point KAT will likely either re-sign or be traded. We are capped out for 2 more years pretty much regardless of if we trade for SImmons or not. The only question is how much is ownership willing to spend if we end up putting a winning team out there. Because if we don't win, it's going to get blown up regardless. Could we re-tool at that point around SImmons and Ant?
Point 2: What is the alternative? What is the opportunity cost we would be giving up by trading for Simmons?
What else could we possibly get for what we would be giving up in trade, free agency, or in the draft?
As far as free agency, we will only have the MLE the next 2 years, and using that or not using it is a quesiton of is ownership willing to spend.
Outside of the top 3, the draft has been pretty awful for lottery picks the last 2 years. 2022 doesnt look great either.
What are some of our other trade options?

Simmons works best as a transition player, grabbing the rebound and pushing the pace. I remember a couple Sixergames where they absolutely torched us in transition. He's incredibly quick up the floor, would pair well with ANT.
He'd also be a great cutting threat. You stick him in a corner, and you allow his defender to sag off, and that is a problem, so you have to be creative. You can start him as the roller, or run a pop and re-screen with him as the ballhandler and create matchup nightmares. You can't guard him with a standard big so the other team still has to put their big on KAT. I really like the possibilities, we need the extra dimension because D-Lo is not good at getting in the lane. I think Simmons could be significantly better with the talent we could put around him.

I just think when you look at the bigger picture, his value isnt defined by one bad playoff series which is why we may have the opportunity to buy low.
The one serious question I would have were I our front office would be making sure his back is 100% healed.
We really would be buying low. Morey cast cast his lot by shopping him. I don't think Simmons is going to put on a circus like Butler, but trading him before the Season starts would be smartest.

I personally draw the line at expirings or Beasley + expirings + 2 top 5 protected 1sts round picks.
I could be talked into making it a 2022 unprotected + 2024 top 5 protected. If they want McDaniels instead, they have to take out one of those picks. I like McDaniels too, but its insane to make him a dealbreaker with the incredibly low usage he had on the offensive end last year.
So my preferred offer is Beverly+Prince+20221st (top5)+2024 1st (top 5).
The highest I would go is Beverly+Beasley+2022 1st (unprotected)+McDaniels.
I can see Morey rather having capspace next summer, so the more likley filler IMHO is Beverly+Prince (plus layman if we can get them to take him).

[younggunsmn]

Another thought: Derrick Favors is out there ripe for the picking on OKC and would be a good def/rebounding fit to backup KAT and play next to him vs certain 2 big lineups or dominant bigs. Makes 9.7 this year with a player option for 10.2 next year.
If we aren't going to use him in a SImmons trade, I'd send Prince + the 2022 Was 2nd to OKC for him, would open up a little bit of space under the lux for us too.

[Nick K]

This board is a joke sometimes. People rejecting a Simmons trade because in PO opponents might take advantage of his weakness.

Man, we have only made PO once since KG era, we need people to take the team to PO first and then we can worry about PO.

Since everyone seems to ignore it when I say it, read this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/06/21/sixers-must-shop-ben-simmons-after-meltdown-against-atlanta-hawks/

Great piece winforlose. Thanks for putting it up. Sure sounds exactly like what many of us have been saying. Especially the poor bargaining position Morey is in. No wonder a trade hasn't happened.

[younggunsmn]

This board is a joke sometimes. People rejecting a Simmons trade because in PO opponents might take advantage of his weakness.

Man, we have only made PO once since KG era, we need people to take the team to PO first and then we can worry about PO.

Since everyone seems to ignore it when I say it, read this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/06/21/sixers-must-shop-ben-simmons-after-meltdown-against-atlanta-hawks/

Great piece winforlose. Thanks for putting it up. Sure sounds exactly like what many of us have been saying. Especially the poor bargaining position Morey is in. No wonder a trade hasn't happened.

In the very first paragraph of that piece it mentions trae young shot 5/23 and the writer spends the rest of the piece ignoring it. you know why? Ben Simmons.
He has to learn to make his FT's, because his poor FT shooting made him afraid to attack and if he plays like that you get what happened in the Atlanta series. It is Philadelphia, and sports fans there are unforgiving, and that does shed a little bit of light on why maybe there is more pressure for Morey to move him than one would normally think.

[Nick K]

This board is a joke sometimes. People rejecting a Simmons trade because in PO opponents might take advantage of his weakness.

Man, we have only made PO once since KG era, we need people to take the team to PO first and then we can worry about PO.

Ya, currently we …
-Are not a playoff team
-Have no team leader
-Have Proven to be poor defensively
Ya, no need to upgrade

I think we will easily be a playoff team this year. Last year if healthy we at least had a chance to be a 50% team and make an 8th seed.

We have 3 team leaders in Kat, Dlo, and yes, Ant.

OK, I'll give you bad D but that improved quit a bit the last 10 games and with a new coach, new scheme it could be substantially better.

No need to upgrade? Where have you been? We have been upgrading for 2 years. Rebuilds take some time and we are well on our way. We are close to being where we want to be. We need to be careful with our next move. Too big a reach could set us back. Rosas is playing positional chess for sure.

Read the fair minded Forbes article that winforlose just posted. It says much.

[Nick K]

The ideal team for a MN wolves fan is 5 Jaden McDaniels-esque players starting (making $2m per year on a rookie deal) going 0-82 and drafting #1 every year, with $40m in cap space. Rinse, recycle, repeat.

I understand your attempt at humor but such a bad take. Not a single poster has even hinted at this.

Several of those you are going back and forth with have said they would trade for Simmons. The sticking point is not Simmons, but what the Wolves would have to trade for him.

True, but when Jaden McDaniels is the sticking point for a young all star that's just wrong.

I just wonder what tune you will be humming about McD a year or two from now?

If I'm wrong about the guy I'll admit it to all. I expect the same from you.

Save yourself a lot of crow and just get on board now kgdabom. It took a while but you finally got on board with Ant. You were a Wiseman guy. See? It's OK.

Look at Middleton and Giannis their 1st year.

[IceManBK1]

Watch on YouTube

I would trade Beasley+2nd Rder for Lauri.. But not a 1st. Bulls could use a good backup 2 guard behind Lavine. If we're gonna give up a 1st then maybe we can get coby white as well.

[moonpie]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Krapinsky]

Since everyone seems to ignore it when I say it, read this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/06/21/sixers-must-shop-ben-simmons-after-meltdown-against-atlanta-hawks/

In the very first paragraph of that piece it mentions trae young shot 5/23 and the writer spends the rest of the piece ignoring it. you know why? Ben Simmons.
He has to learn to make his FT's, because his poor FT shooting made him afraid to attack and if he plays like that you get what happened in the Atlanta series. It is Philadelphia, and sports fans there are unforgiving, and that does shed a little bit of light on why maybe there is more pressure for Morey to move him than one would normally think.

Since when did Forbes start providing insightful bball analysis? Too funny.

Simmons finished +1 in a game they lost by 7. All the other starters in the minus. It’s easy for a casual observer to see faults in poor FT% or a missed opportunity at end of game. It’s also fun to dunk on anyone that has been seen in public with a Kardashian. It’s harder to appreciate all the little things a cerebral player like Simmons does to help you win games, and that’s a non-starter for any tabloid-style NBA reporter doubling down on the hot take of the month.

[theGreatRC]

A lot of posts in here are telling me you dont watch Ben Simmons without saying you dont watch Ben Simmons.

If he was on our team, the impact would be seen so far beyond his scoring, which is overblown.

He had mental lapses, but that shouldnt define a whole player

[Nick K]

Since everyone seems to ignore it when I say it, read this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2021/06/21/sixers-must-shop-ben-simmons-after-meltdown-against-atlanta-hawks/

In the very first paragraph of that piece it mentions trae young shot 5/23 and the writer spends the rest of the piece ignoring it. you know why? Ben Simmons.
He has to learn to make his FT's, because his poor FT shooting made him afraid to attack and if he plays like that you get what happened in the Atlanta series. It is Philadelphia, and sports fans there are unforgiving, and that does shed a little bit of light on why maybe there is more pressure for Morey to move him than one would normally think.

Since when did Forbes start providing insightful bball analysis? Too funny.

Simmons finished +1 in a game they lost by 7. All the other starters in the minus. It’s easy for a casual observer to see faults in poor FT% or a missed opportunity at end of game. It’s also fun to dunk on anyone that has been seen in public with a Kardashian. It’s harder to appreciate all the little things a cerebral player like Simmons does to help you win games, and that’s a non-starter for any tabloid-style NBA reporter doubling down on the hot take of the month.

It's not funny. It's pithy. Look it up.

[winforlose]

A lot of posts in here are telling me you dont watch Ben Simmons without saying you dont watch Ben Simmons.

If he was on our team, the impact would be seen so far beyond his scoring, which is overblown.

He had mental lapses, but that shouldnt define a whole player

So those mental lapses didn’t cost the 76ers the series and possibly the title? They didn’t happen in prior years hurting the 76ers playoff performances? Simmons does have a jump shot so that he isn’t being cheated off of to double the shooters? What defines the player is the gaps in his game and how they negatively impact the team. Even if the guy is a world class defender you are talking about giving up 3 players to get him. We have no money to go out and get even competent backups at this point. That means we are one injury away from G league or 3rd string talent starting or playing significant minutes depending on position. Simmons is overpaid and has obvious flaws, that is why the 76ers haven’t been able to make the Warriors or any other team bite. When the asking price goes down then we can talk.

[IceManBK1]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263920/Cavaliers-Looking-For-Wing-Help-Teams-Covet-Larry-Nance-Jr

Nance Jr+Osman for Beasley and Layman

[KGdaBom]

I understand your attempt at humor but such a bad take. Not a single poster has even hinted at this.

Several of those you are going back and forth with have said they would trade for Simmons. The sticking point is not Simmons, but what the Wolves would have to trade for him.

True, but when Jaden McDaniels is the sticking point for a young all star that's just wrong.

It isn't wrong though when that young "all-star" shouldn't be an all-star, hope for improvement is diminished and is paid $35mil.

You are supporting trading a 4th option defender with massive upside making $2mil for a 4th option defender with questionable upside making $35mil. I don't think there is a place on this planet where that is advisable.

Blah, blah , blah......................................
Seriously where did you go to spin school. I'm talking about not making a trade for a young proven all star because we're afraid that our nobody might end up good someday.