The Jarrett Culver Thread

[Klomp]

Based solely on the start of this season (14 games in), i dont think hed go lottery in a redraft.

Same could've been said for Kevin Garnett in 1995. Might as well move on...

Completely different positional players with completely different output expectations. And yet Garnett was immediately a more confident offensive and defensive all around player doing so many different things on the court and for someone of his size, flashing brilliance early on for one reason or another. In his 8th game for example, 5 blocks, 5 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 for 4 on FT, 1 of 2 from 3 in his first 30 minute game. How many 19 year olds show this? it's not a monster stat total, it's just a good basketball players collection for one rookie game. In his first 35 games, he only had this one >30 minute game. He had a few players to supplant before he could really take over. It wasn't constant 25 pt games that allowed him to supplant the others in minutes by midseason. It was everything he could do already. From the first game, his worst errors might be a blocked shot called for goal tending.

In the first half of KG's rookie season, he averaged 20 mpg and scored 6 ppg on 41% shooting. Based on things you've said about Culver, it sounds like he needed a minutes reduction.

[Jedzz]

Same could've been said for Kevin Garnett in 1995. Might as well move on...

Completely different positional players with completely different output expectations. And yet Garnett was immediately a more confident offensive and defensive all around player doing so many different things on the court and for someone of his size, flashing brilliance early on for one reason or another. In his 8th game for example, 5 blocks, 5 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3 for 4 on FT, 1 of 2 from 3 in his first 30 minute game. How many 19 year olds show this? it's not a monster stat total, it's just a good basketball players collection for one rookie game. In his first 35 games, he only had this one >30 minute game. He had a few players to supplant before he could really take over. It wasn't constant 25 pt games that allowed him to supplant the others in minutes by midseason. It was everything he could do already. From the first game, his worst errors might be a blocked shot called for goal tending.

In the first half of KG's rookie season, he averaged 20 mpg and scored 6 ppg on 41% shooting. Based on things you've said about Culver, it sounds like he needed a minutes reduction.

There you go, being yourself again. You just quoted me saying these are two very different player types with very different expectations of output and this is how you respond. I tried being kind offering Kobe instead, who had a sort of notoriously quiet beginning. But you just want to troll I guess.

This is trolling, Klomp. Please don't troll.



Your claim of similarity of Garnett's start to that of a struggling shooting guard/team-wants-to-create-as-a-point guard, who's shooting 28% from 3 in a system completely designed to create open looks for 3, which it does, is amazing.

You want to really force the comparison of a shooting guard to a Center and you want to compare what, shooting? Are you struggling to comprehend my posts or just an ai forum bot trolling for posts today again?

By 16 games into their rookie seasons:
Culver, 6 starts (free starts), 23.5 mins avg, 28% from 3FG, 35% on Free Throws. 36% FG
Garnett, 0 starts(no free starts), 19 mins avg, 50% from 3FG, 78% on Free Throws. 36% FG

Based on shooting ability and less time, Garnett looks like a better SG/Wing than Culver. Is that the result you were looking for?

How about assists?
Culver 2.1
Garnett 1.6
Which one is supposed to be the next great PG here again? Don't see a clear difference.

Blocks?
Culver 0 5
Garnett 1.1

Steals?
Culver 0 9
Garnett 0.9

Boards?
Culver 2 9
Garnett 3.6

TOV?
Culver 1.5
Garnett 1.3
Ballhandler? The rookie 6-11 PF/Center wins?

TS%
Culver 4.26
Garnett 5.22

Off Rating / Def Rating (Basketball Reference)
Culver 86/112
Garnett 106/108


Anything else you want to claim as similar to Culver's first 16 games of free rookie minutes today?

[Jedzz]

Here's a comparison that might help your simplistic way of trying to make Culver seem better, Klomp. Compare his first game to that of Nowell's on Saturday. Nowell shot really poorly in his first chance. I hoped he could show more right away, but he's a normal rookie too. That single game comparison should be one you can keep using for the next three years trying to fluff pillows for Culver with this slight edge. Am I right? Does he show an edge here?

Culver
16 mins, 2 of 5 FG, 0-2 FG3, 0-0FT, 2 Boards, 0 Assists, 1 Stl, 2 TOV, 4 points
Nowell
14 mins, 1 of 4 FG, 0-3 FG3, 1-1 FT, 1 Board, 3 Assists, 0 Stl, 1 TOV, 3 points

Take this comparison to your banker and ask him to back Jarrett Culver for 2021 PG All Star probability. That, or keep trying to associate him with great NBA Center names to a fault. Maybe someone will buy it. Just please stop trolling us.

[Neeva]

Jeedz and andybop are hellbent on being “right” that culver sucks and belongs g league.. cant wait for them to eat their crow.

[Jedzz]

Jeedz and andybop are hellbent on being “right” that culver sucks and belongs g league.. cant wait for them to eat their crow.

Well that's not true. In fact minutes ago I selected Culver in the +/- topic for tonights Hawks game. If anyone has a slight chance to blow over their average as a starter, maybe it's Culver who is at something like 8pts. That's me being hopeful for him. Granted at this point it's a tossup trying to guess the lowest producer with the highest usage (20%) that might output more.

We might be hellbent on trying to be accurate while accounting what's happening in front of our eyes. Is that a problem?

[Magoose]

To me one of the keys to Culver's success (besides the obvious shortcomings in terms of reliable shooting stroke and finishing ability) is tied to him being confident and feeling comfortable while on the floor.

Most of the time I feel like he's passing on good opportunities to get to the basket and he clearly lacks the confidence that he's actually capable of finishing strong. I sometimes think a stint in the G-League might do wonders for him to actually get into a better rhythm, gain some confidence and enjoy playing the game.

This is why I'm not completely opposed to send him to the G-League, especially when Napier returns.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Jeedz and andybop are hellbent on being “right” that culver sucks and belongs g league.. cant wait for them to eat their crow.

I'm not for sending him to G league, but no one should get stick for pointing how he is finishing is really bad, his shooting erratic and subpar. He needs to do more, has good upside, but needs to grow some confidence and bit of spine. Plays like he doesnt believe he belongs.

[DaKid]

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[Rookie-Mistake]

I will probably end up eating my own words, but my pre draft vibe on Culver was that he was undersized and couldn't shoot, average at everything but master of none.

So far the only thing I'm willing to say that I was wrong on was his height. The rest, is alarming to say the least..

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[Norseman79]

So, what I am seeing from Culver that is really bugging me is his finishing at the rim. Now, I have seen him get up and dunk a ball, but it seems like he just doesn't want to dunk. I believe the shooting will come, the handle isn't bad. He is a guy who fills up a stat sheet, I mean 14 pts, 5 rebs, 3 asts and 2 steals isn't bad at all, but it is quiet. Another question, I mean, why didn't we have him post Young up on the box? Things worked out, will take the win, just hoping to see some more aggression from him soon.

[minimus]

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Underrated

[Rookie-Mistake]

.421 ft%

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Underrated

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[minimus]

.421 ft%

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Underrated

Overrated

[Neeva]

It’s funny the exact same culver haters were hating on Okogie(and kbd) at this time last year lol

[minimus]

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I hope Culver will try to model his slashing game to Butler: refine footwork, use glass. Also a little floater could make him a much better finisher. Even Wiggins has started to use it more.

[Killboard]

The offense is slowly coming around. Obviously he is not ready as a shooter and will need time, but I'm impressed by his poise in the lane and his defense. This aren't easy things for a rookie. His DRTG as a guard is the third best behind Okogie and Napier and 6 points better than Teague. This is not an easy task for a rookie PG like he has been.

Is also not easy for a rookie to come in and fill up on a winning team as starter and not playing himself out of the court, at very least it requires to be really smart while adjusting. How many of them exists this season?

[Jedzz]

The offense is slowly coming around. Obviously he is not ready as a shooter and will need time, but I'm impressed by his poise in the lane and his defense. This aren't easy things for a rookie. His DRTG as a guard is the third best behind Okogie and Napier and 6 points better than Teague. This is not an easy task for a rookie PG like he has been.

Is also not easy for a rookie to come in and fill up on a winning team as starter and not playing himself out of the court, at very least it requires to be really smart while adjusting. How many of them exists this season?

But he has played himself off the court numerous times. They just aren't taking him off the court enough like they should, when they should. The team is really trying to push his development no matter what is occuring. In the most recent game, as soon as it was his turn to play Point Culver (Wiggins leaving court), the team dropped an 8 point lead in less than 2 minutes. This is significant, the botches were significant. But Kat claimed this culture would be one that allows the rookies to play and develop more than it was under the coach they ran out. So that's what they are doing, at least for Culver and maybe Martin so far.

I still can't stand that he's starting, but being that he's not an alpha personality just yet he seems to fit ok playing secondary to Point Wiggins. Which is a whole lot better than watching Point Culver later.

The worst part of when the Point Culver sessions happen, the team is placing Teague on the court with him. They probably have to because besides Teague and Wiggins, the rest of the guards aren't high bbiq or shooters. So it's much like the seasons before now where Rose had to play 2guard next to another sub par point guard. The team obviously doesn't trust Okogie to carry next to Point Culver. it's sad but it is what it is. My problem is that Teague is nothing but a point guard that wants to create shots for others. He doesn't trust his own shooting and wants no part of shooting. So these pairing moments of Teague with Point Culver are ALL WRONG. If they are running this experiment called Point Culver, they need to find a different 2 guard to pair him with. - Okogie,Nowell, get Napier back, something. Or just stop forcing Point Culver moments and save it for when his bbiq has more experience. Let Teague run the second crew and get Culver off the floor at that point in time, at least get him off ball in that moment and let Teague feed him open shots or have Culver cutting where Teague can also feed him.

[Killboard]

The offense is slowly coming around. Obviously he is not ready as a shooter and will need time, but I'm impressed by his poise in the lane and his defense. This aren't easy things for a rookie. His DRTG as a guard is the third best behind Okogie and Napier and 6 points better than Teague. This is not an easy task for a rookie PG like he has been.

Is also not easy for a rookie to come in and fill up on a winning team as starter and not playing himself out of the court, at very least it requires to be really smart while adjusting. How many of them exists this season?

But he has played himself off the court numerous times. They just aren't taking him off the court enough like they should, when they should. The team is really trying to push his development no matter what is occuring. In the most recent game, as soon as it was his turn to play Point Culver (Wiggins leaving court), the team dropped an 8 point lead in less than 2 minutes. This is significant, the botches were significant. But Kat claimed this culture would be one that allows the rookies to play and develop more than it was under the coach they ran out. So that's what they are doing, at least for Culver and maybe Martin so far.

I still can't stand that he's starting, but being that he's not an alpha personality just yet he seems to fit ok playing secondary to Point Wiggins. Which is a whole lot better than watching Point Culver later.

The worst part of when the Point Culver sessions happen, the team is placing Teague on the court with him. They probably have to because besides Teague and Wiggins, the rest of the guards aren't high bbiq or shooters. So it's much like the seasons before now where Rose had to play 2guard next to another sub par point guard. The team obviously doesn't trust Okogie to carry next to Point Culver. it's sad but it is what it is. My problem is that Teague is nothing but a point guard that wants to create shots for others. He doesn't trust his own shooting and wants no part of shooting. So these pairing moments of Teague with Point Culver are ALL WRONG. If they are running this experiment called Point Culver, they need to find a different 2 guard to pair him with. - Okogie,Nowell, get Napier back, something. Or just stop forcing Point Culver moments and save it for when his bbiq has more experience. Let Teague run the second crew and get Culver off the floor at that point in time, at least get him off ball in that moment and let Teague feed him open shots or have Culver cutting where Teague can also feed him.

Culver net rating is -0.8 in over 23 minutes per game (12th most minutes among rookies and only Herro is above him in a .500+ team), the wolves as a team are -0.3, so he is barely damaging the team which means he is earning his fair share of development minutes.

Lead guards, specially those that need work on their shooting, are slow to come around. Besides bigs Hayes and Bitazde, only Herro and Little have been positives so far in the season.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DraftYear=2019&CF=MIN*G*15

[Jedzz]

The offense is slowly coming around. Obviously he is not ready as a shooter and will need time, but I'm impressed by his poise in the lane and his defense. This aren't easy things for a rookie. His DRTG as a guard is the third best behind Okogie and Napier and 6 points better than Teague. This is not an easy task for a rookie PG like he has been.

Is also not easy for a rookie to come in and fill up on a winning team as starter and not playing himself out of the court, at very least it requires to be really smart while adjusting. How many of them exists this season?

But he has played himself off the court numerous times. They just aren't taking him off the court enough like they should, when they should. The team is really trying to push his development no matter what is occuring. In the most recent game, as soon as it was his turn to play Point Culver (Wiggins leaving court), the team dropped an 8 point lead in less than 2 minutes. This is significant, the botches were significant. But Kat claimed this culture would be one that allows the rookies to play and develop more than it was under the coach they ran out. So that's what they are doing, at least for Culver and maybe Martin so far.

I still can't stand that he's starting, but being that he's not an alpha personality just yet he seems to fit ok playing secondary to Point Wiggins. Which is a whole lot better than watching Point Culver later.

The worst part of when the Point Culver sessions happen, the team is placing Teague on the court with him. They probably have to because besides Teague and Wiggins, the rest of the guards aren't high bbiq or shooters. So it's much like the seasons before now where Rose had to play 2guard next to another sub par point guard. The team obviously doesn't trust Okogie to carry next to Point Culver. it's sad but it is what it is. My problem is that Teague is nothing but a point guard that wants to create shots for others. He doesn't trust his own shooting and wants no part of shooting. So these pairing moments of Teague with Point Culver are ALL WRONG. If they are running this experiment called Point Culver, they need to find a different 2 guard to pair him with. - Okogie,Nowell, get Napier back, something. Or just stop forcing Point Culver moments and save it for when his bbiq has more experience. Let Teague run the second crew and get Culver off the floor at that point in time, at least get him off ball in that moment and let Teague feed him open shots or have Culver cutting where Teague can also feed him.

Culver net rating is -0.8 in over 23 minutes per game (12th most minutes among rookies and only Herro is above him in a .500+ team), the wolves as a team are -0.3, so he is barely damaging the team which means he is earning his fair share of development minutes.

Lead guards, specially those that need work on their shooting, are slow to come around. Besides bigs Hayes and Bitazde, only Herro and Little have been positives so far in the season.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DraftYear=2019&CF=MIN*G*15

Don't blow smoke up my ass. I just gave you a specific moment in the most recent game for an example and spoke specifically about when they are using Culver on point. That's not a moment when Wiggins and 3 other starters are carrying him. His Net rating you are throwing out is being built both while with the starters and without. It's disengenuous to not point out the two completely different roles he has during games, especially when my point is only about one of those roles they have him in. Your stat isn't split for the two roles, and it would be nice if you would bother to account for the loss of lead I spoke about when responding. These things matter to the games.

[Killboard]

But he has played himself off the court numerous times. They just aren't taking him off the court enough like they should, when they should. The team is really trying to push his development no matter what is occuring. In the most recent game, as soon as it was his turn to play Point Culver (Wiggins leaving court), the team dropped an 8 point lead in less than 2 minutes. This is significant, the botches were significant. But Kat claimed this culture would be one that allows the rookies to play and develop more than it was under the coach they ran out. So that's what they are doing, at least for Culver and maybe Martin so far.

I still can't stand that he's starting, but being that he's not an alpha personality just yet he seems to fit ok playing secondary to Point Wiggins. Which is a whole lot better than watching Point Culver later.

The worst part of when the Point Culver sessions happen, the team is placing Teague on the court with him. They probably have to because besides Teague and Wiggins, the rest of the guards aren't high bbiq or shooters. So it's much like the seasons before now where Rose had to play 2guard next to another sub par point guard. The team obviously doesn't trust Okogie to carry next to Point Culver. it's sad but it is what it is. My problem is that Teague is nothing but a point guard that wants to create shots for others. He doesn't trust his own shooting and wants no part of shooting. So these pairing moments of Teague with Point Culver are ALL WRONG. If they are running this experiment called Point Culver, they need to find a different 2 guard to pair him with. - Okogie,Nowell, get Napier back, something. Or just stop forcing Point Culver moments and save it for when his bbiq has more experience. Let Teague run the second crew and get Culver off the floor at that point in time, at least get him off ball in that moment and let Teague feed him open shots or have Culver cutting where Teague can also feed him.

Culver net rating is -0.8 in over 23 minutes per game (12th most minutes among rookies and only Herro is above him in a .500+ team), the wolves as a team are -0.3, so he is barely damaging the team which means he is earning his fair share of development minutes.

Lead guards, specially those that need work on their shooting, are slow to come around. Besides bigs Hayes and Bitazde, only Herro and Little have been positives so far in the season.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DraftYear=2019&CF=MIN*G*15

Don't blow smoke up my ass. I just gave you a specific moment in the most recent game for an example and spoke specifically about when they are using Culver on point. That's not a moment when Wiggins and 3 other starters are carrying him. His Net rating you are throwing out is being built both while with the starters and without. It's disengenuous to not point out the two completely different roles he has during games, especially when my point is only about one of those roles they have him in. Your stat isn't split for the two roles, and it would be nice if you would bother to account for the loss of lead I spoke about when responding. These things matter to the games.

I don't know what you call smoke but net rating takes into account that play you mentioned, the play before that you didn't mention, and every other play with him on the floor in offense and defense for that matter. He is playing in units along better players than him but he is also playing against best players than him.

The wolves aren't the better team when he is on the floor so far, but only 4 rookies can say that, two of them are bigs (who are finishers for other players), Herro (who is an skilled shooter) and Nassir Little playing in under half Culver minutes. That's the reality of rookies in this league, better get used to it and don't be panicked.