Knicks-Cavs Official PG Thread

[StephNYKurry]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

[IAmTheBest]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

also lol @ everyone confidently calling the bucks and hornets playoff teams now all of a sudden

lmao

[StephNYKurry]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

Oh...I've been schooled...continue

[AmazingJason]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

Aside from that, Fisher basically admitted last night that the loss was due to poor coaching. The same exact poor coaching that has cost us wins and potential wins recently.

People saying that we suck and shouldn't expect playoffs...you guys do realize that Fisher's excuse for using a 13-man rotation on the back-to-back was to develop guys' confidence for the POSTSEASON, right? I was absolutely dumbfounded when he said that, but he actually did. He was speaking as if we are a playoff team, and he's an established coach of one.

[Thugger HBC]

Just playing dev advocate, why can't we afford it? Is this team in title contention?

Because I want to build a championship team and you can't to afford to bring along a guy so he can achieve mediocrity and be the weakest link.

The quality of the coach should be above the level of your talent until the talent rises to above average as a whole.

The coach should have prior experience in developing players, not be learning on the job how to develop players.

Because we shouldn't have to be outcoached every night while waiting for some mythical day to arrive when Fisher will outcoach others.

Because we could make the playoffs and with Fisher we will not.

Playoff experience is necessary to build a championship ready roster because it is typically necessary to lose in the playoffs before you can win it all in the playoffs.

Because we need to achieve the best this roster can achieve so we can make a strong case in free agency.

Because you don't do everything you can to upgrade the roster and let it be managed by a grade Z coach.

I think the above points are important.

Let's say the people who say our roster is garbage are correct. Even if that's true, there is no still no excuse for Fisher. Having a bad team doesn't justify trotting out the worst coach in NBA history. If the goal is to develop players, why didn't we go after someone who has a track record of doing that? Someone like Skiles, Jackson, Hollins, or heck, even George Karl.

People saying Boston is better than us. We have Carmelo Anthony, and their best player is f*cking Isaiah Thomas, who isn't even starting now. Watching a guy like Stevens coaching the hell out of Boston is so damn difficult to accept while having endure Fisher on a nightly basis.

Just curious, where are folks getting the notion that Thomas doesnt start?

But anyway, Boston does have a solid roster, although no perennial all-star, similar to the Bucks and Hornets.

Melo is keeping the team in games or is a legit threat so teams plan accordingly and our roster is subpar.

Fisher has awful rotations and late game decisions, but these guys do play hard for him, and thats likely do to the fact that he plays his full deck quite often.

[IAmTheBest]

Spurs (55 Wins last year)
Bucks
Cavs x 2 (53 wins last year...Finals runner up...2nd best player in the World )
Hornets
Hawks (won 60 games last year)

Bucks and Hornets both playoff teams.

Why are people beside themselves? Maybe we just aren't that good?

Everything you posted is irrelevant

We actually notched wins against cleveland and san antonio last season - our worst season in franchise history. does that mean anything

instead of posting meaningless records, you have to actually watch and analyze games.

we choked away easily winnable games mainly because of fisher's incompetence. that is the fact of the matter and everything else is irrelevant. Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern. unfortnately, we are up to the "three times" part and this pattern is dangerous for the team and its future

Aside from that, Fisher basically admitted last night that the loss was due to poor coaching. The same exact poor coaching that has cost us wins and potential wins in the past.

for real. he said something along the lines of "i have to put players in best position to win"

at least he sees it himself.

i'm not calling for him to be fired yet. firing him now would be the typical dark ages knicks move. what i do want is for the weaknesses to be identified, accepted, and addressed.

giving him a pass for his incompetence will lead us nowhere. just make him improve

[TheBigBoss]

People have to remember that this is a new team, so in a tight game against a championship caliber team like yesterday, Fish rode with Gallo, Lou, and Lance who developed chemistry last season together. Thats why he had them out there.

[IAmTheBest]

People have to remember that this is a new team, so in a tight game against a championship caliber team like yesterday, Fish rode with Gallo, Lou, and Lance who developed chemistry last season together. Thats why he had them out there.

so what about against the bucks and hornets? what is the excuse for fisher **** the bed against a lottery team and a borderline lottery team?

[Capn'O]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense too predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leadership stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

[Thugger HBC]

There isnt a coach alive that doesn't blame himself for losses.

The Knicks lost to the reigning ECF champs. LeBron was LeBron for most of the game and definitely down the stretch.

The Knicks had a chance to win...but didnt.

[CharlesOakley]

Robin Lopez is our starting center when in reality he is a backup, his offensive game is also very.....shaky.
Porzingis is a rookie, picks up a lot of foolish fouls, his stamina is still building, his shot struggles & he is not aggressive as a scorer.
Melo is Melo for better or worse.
Arron is our 2nd scorer when he is really a 4th/5th scorer, not to mention his defense has fallen.
Galloway is good.

That's not a playoff calibre team especially when the bench is so erratic.

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is easily talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate within a matter of minutes. there are stretches when the lineups cannot generate offense and/or get stops. these are lineup problems due to fisher's tactical incompetence

Robin was the 5th starter in Portland. He played next to LMA, Batum, Wes Matthews and Lillard. He was the 5th starter. What does that mean? That means that is was the 5th best player in that starting lineup. Here, you can make an argument for him being the 2nd starter.

Afflalo sits in the same boat as Robin. Arron also came off the bench in Portland. He only started due to injury.

Galloway does not start for us. Jose does though...

Boston has a much better roster than us.

Portland the year before Lopez was a 33 win team. They won 54 the year he arrived with pretty much the same roster.

[Thugger HBC]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense all to predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leaders stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

[IAmTheBest]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense all to predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leaders stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

they gave it to him so late though

it's one thing to defer to the star from the get go

it's another thing to try to get something done with a stagnant offense, fail, and then give the ball to the star with no time to go to work

[3toheadmelo]

hopefully this game was a wake up call for fisher

[IllmaticHandler]

There is a difference of making the playoffs vs making noise in the playoffs. For years the East has trotted out weak as hell 8th seeds. To think this Knick Team is not good enough for a 8th seed is funny. This Knick team would be garbage in the playoffs, but that dont mean they cant simply make it. Making the 8th seed in the east dont mean your Good. People acting like to be in the playoffs in the east, you have to be a top team. So yes this team CAN make the playoffs. They are not that bad.

[Capn'O]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense all to predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leaders stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

People can say what they want. They probably would have missed but those are shots KP especially ultimately needs to take. That makes Melo's job easier, make or miss. The fact that he recognizes this and is vocalizing it is huge, imo.

[Thugger HBC]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense all to predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leaders stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

they gave it to him so late though

it's one thing to defer to the star from the get go

it's another thing to try to get something done with a stagnant offense, fail, and then give the ball to the star with no time to go to work

Earlier in the game, Melo was bringing the ball up court, perhaps thats why he was able to perform so well and the team too. The team relies on Melo alot in the first halves especially, but I dont think they defer that much except in the clutch, which they should.

I think the offense fizzles because the cast cant maintain their play that long because...they arent that good. Defensively they definitely arent.

But even still, they are ahead of where I personally felt they'd be record wise-although the overall teams play is slightly above expectations.

[AmazingJason]

Because I want to build a championship team and you can't to afford to bring along a guy so he can achieve mediocrity and be the weakest link.

The quality of the coach should be above the level of your talent until the talent rises to above average as a whole.

The coach should have prior experience in developing players, not be learning on the job how to develop players.

Because we shouldn't have to be outcoached every night while waiting for some mythical day to arrive when Fisher will outcoach others.

Because we could make the playoffs and with Fisher we will not.

Playoff experience is necessary to build a championship ready roster because it is typically necessary to lose in the playoffs before you can win it all in the playoffs.

Because we need to achieve the best this roster can achieve so we can make a strong case in free agency.

Because you don't do everything you can to upgrade the roster and let it be managed by a grade Z coach.

I think the above points are important.

Let's say the people who say our roster is garbage are correct. Even if that's true, there is no still no excuse for Fisher. Having a bad team doesn't justify trotting out the worst coach in NBA history. If the goal is to develop players, why didn't we go after someone who has a track record of doing that? Someone like Skiles, Jackson, Hollins, or heck, even George Karl.

People saying Boston is better than us. We have Carmelo Anthony, and their best player is f*cking Isaiah Thomas, who isn't even starting now. Watching a guy like Stevens coaching the hell out of Boston is so damn difficult to accept while having endure Fisher on a nightly basis.

Just curious, where are folks getting the notion that Thomas doesnt start?

But anyway, Boston does have a solid roster, although no perennial all-star, similar to the Bucks and Hornets.

Melo is keeping the team in games or is a legit threat so teams plan accordingly and our roster is subpar.

Fisher has awful rotations and late game decisions, but these guys do play hard for him, and thats likely do to the fact that he plays his full deck quite often.

You're right; he's still currently a starter. He was scheduled to return to the bench a little less than a week ago when Smart returned. But Bradley has been out with an injury.

[Thugger HBC]

My 2c:

I'm proud of Melo for calling out the team for stagnating around him. Two critical possessions, the team wandered around aimlessly before moving the ball to Melo with less than 5 seconds left on the clock. On one of those possessions, KP had a better shot earlier. On the other, he and Calderon had a better shot. The next possession, Melo came to the ball early in the clock and shot it to avoid what happened previously.

The other guys need to take theirs. They can't just hope for Melo to bail them out because that makes the offense all to predictable. Him calling out this dynamic is about the biggest vocal leaders stance I've seen from him and I applaud it. Hope the team responds properly and lays a smackdown to NOP tomorrow.

I noticed that as well, although I would say if those guys took those shots and missed, the narrative woulld have been as to why Melo isnt taking over a late game like LeBron was.

I'm all for players taking good/open shots but unless called upon, that's the stars moment normally. but the cast should be ready when called.

People can say what they want. They probably would have missed but those are shots KP especially ultimately needs to take. That makes Melo's job easier, make or miss. The fact that he recognizes this and is vocalizing it is huge, imo.

Idk fam, in the clutch I expect the stars to be such. Doesnt mean the cast get no chances, but the team is deferring because thats their role. They know it. But they dont defer to him nearly as much as some are making it to be, his usage is one of his lowest in his entire career.

Oan, I really have a hard time understanding this "making a players job easier". Melo has no issue getting his normally shots and looks regardless of cast of players around him and teams arent doubling or triple covering him in the clutch. His performance in such times is 100% on him. I will credit him for being vocal on the issue, I do question whether it is an issue.

[IllmaticHandler]

To the people who are defending Fisher. Name the Good to Great Coaches that were as Trash as him in the Beginning in recent memory? The one thing that I learned about NBA coaches, the Goods ones are usually Good from the JUMP. Find most of the top coaches in the league, they were good to very decent from the jump as a head coach, even if they were not head coaches before. Fisher did NOT deserve this Job at all. Cause he has no experience. Coaching in the NBA is not some Joke. Phil Jackson treated it as a damn joke. Fisher is not even a legend on the court like Kidd. If he was Good or had the natural ability, much more would have been shown by now. So what they play hard for him right now.They also play hard for themselves, so he don't get all the credit. This team played hard for Woodson for a while to, and then tuned him out.Cause he sucked. Fisher as of right now has shown not one trait that I really can admire right now as a rookie coach... not one. That Sad. Fisher has no Aura as a Coach at all. Kidd has way more Aura and Ability than Fisher. If Fisher becomes a good coach I will be shocked, and I will gladly eat the crow...