Donovan Mitchell Discussion 4

[VirginiaKnickFan]

If Ainge trades spida to Miami out of spite wouldn't he get ridiculed for getting less then what he got for gobert..

He wants draft picks not spite, the Knicks are the only team that can provide that.

[Meat]

Ok, ok. Hear me out... lol

Is there a scenario that helps Miami get Mitchell, but brings us something back while also unloading Fournier?

I wonder if something weird like that could ever make sense. Retain draft capital, shed Fournier, stay younger, and continue to get better.

I guess if we didn't sign Mitch and sign Hartenstien, something for Bam would have made sense... would we even want Herro or Robinson on this team?

No
The Knicks ain’t helping improve the heat

[Guano]

Donovan Mitchell can be the worst defender of all time and I’ll still want the Knicks to get him

We're a bunch of ol' heads here who hate fun. We want to be miserable watching the most fun sport.

[Meat]

I don't think it matters anyhow because Ainge is going to hold until he gets the farm and Knicks hopefully will not crack as they always do. Ainge has nothing to lose.

Ainge has a lot to lose, he knows Mitchell can’t be on the roster opening night, remember his goal, picks and assure top 3 pick

Also..no one besides OKC has as much assets as the Knicks. He can wait a year and the playoff teams that want Mitchell still wouldn’t be able to match Knicks’ current offer. It’s funny tho to watch people sweat and saying how we should just give Danny everything bc it shows how weak minded most people are.

He can’t wait a year lol, the point is a generation talent maybe 2 is in the next draft. The difference between lebron and Dwight is an ocean. That’s the difference in waiting a year

[nykballa2k4]

Ainge has a lot to lose, he knows Mitchell can’t be on the roster opening night, remember his goal, picks and assure top 3 pick

Also..no one besides OKC has as much assets as the Knicks. He can wait a year and the playoff teams that want Mitchell still wouldn’t be able to match Knicks’ current offer. It’s funny tho to watch people sweat and saying how we should just give Danny everything bc it shows how weak minded most people are.

He can’t wait a year lol, the point is a generation talent maybe 2 is in the next draft. The difference between lebron and Dwight is an ocean. That’s the difference in waiting a year

Scoot seems ready, but Wamba seems scary. Could be amazing, could be a complete injury concern.

[Catchall]

My fault I missed it, I am upset down on my hours and feel like a zombie. Thanks for the great info

I don't think it matters anyhow because Ainge is going to hold until he gets the farm and Knicks hopefully will not crack as they always do. Ainge has nothing to lose.

Ainge has a lot to lose, he knows Mitchell can’t be on the roster opening night, remember his goal, picks and assure top 3 pick

Ainge doesn't have to trade Mitchell this offseason. Jazz don't have a starting center or power forward right now. If they want to lose, they'll find ways to lose. Having SGA didn't stop the Thunder from tanking the last couple of years.

Ainge can pull Mitchell off the market if he wants. He can give more teams time to put good packages together. A year from now, if Leon Rose and his team still have their jobs, they can revisit the discussion.

[K_ick_God]

I feel like the only reason we are doing this now is because we just want a "star." And we feel burnt by Frank, Knox. But Grimes, Obi, Jericho are not the same. Different.

[Meat]

Mitchell can play off the ball, he's been developed as a SG after all, that type of backcourt can work because you put Murray on whoever is the more dominant scorer in the backcourt and let Mitchell get the weaker of the two, or hide him on a 3 & D small forward. What you have with Brunson and Mitchell is nowhere to hide one of them, one of them is always going to be in an unfavorable matchup, and we can't realistically ask RJ to guard PGs for 82 games.

You're only thinking about the offense, and not the defense.

I'm thinking of both sides.

Both Mitchell-Brunson and Mitchell-Murray are flawed backcourts. I get your point.

But all things considered, I much prefer a Mitchell-Brunson backcourt. Much smarter on offense, more dynamic, with better shooting all around the court.

Yes it would be open to post-ups on the other end, but it's easier to adjust to post-ups (still the most inefficient play in basketball outside of a few match-ups) by crowding the post for instance, or baiting poor post scorers, than it is to run an efficient offense with a ball-dominant 33% 3-point shooter who can't play off the ball.

One of Mitchell's strengths is his pick-and-roll play and Murray would severely hurt our spacing, let alone with some of the other players we have, as teams already aren't afraid to play zone against us even with a combination of Fournier and Kemba/Burks in the backcourt.

You and I agree on the big guard thing, we disagree on Murray, we're going to find out because Trae is a horrific defender, and has to this point in his career had the ball in his hands more than Brunson or Mitchell.

We agree that Mitchell + Big guard would have been more ideal.

you rang?

[KnixinSix]

Reggie Bullock was a below league average defensive rating (110%) for most of his career but flouirshed under Thibs.

In comparison, Donovan Mitchell DRTG was 111.4 and Reggie 111.8 in 2022.

Chanerd time:

Defensive rating is not a stat that measures individual defense, because it's too dependent on the 4 other players on the floor.

Here are Bullock's last 7 seasons according to Defensive RAPM:

2015-16 -1.02
2016-17 +0.66
2017-18 +0.01
2018-19 -0.8
2019-20 +0.16
2020-21 +0.97
2021-22 +1.21

So by that metric, he did have his best defensive seasons under Thibs and then Kidd.

Mitchell's defense has fallen off a cliff through the years. Is it a sign of his declining commitment and motivation to play in Utah, or of the league changing and further exposing his lack of size? I don't know. To your point, it seems that he has the ability, but not necessarily the willingness to defend.

2017-18 +1.68
2018-19 +1.45
2019-20 -0.62
2020-21 -0.34
2021-22 -0.84

Super interesting pairing Donovan with Thibs' defensive schemes.

You are not going to have that high a defensive rating your first 2 years in the NBA no less, and simply lose that ability entirely. Thibs should get him back to focusing on D.

[KnixinSix]

I feel like the only reason we are doing this now is because we just want a "star." And we feel burnt by Frank, Knox. But Grimes, Obi, Jericho are not the same. Different.

The likelihood that any of these guys become a top 15-20 player as Donovan is is not that great. And if one did how many years of development to get there?

[snadler]

Summer league is meaningless but after watching this first half, Grimes is definitely no deal breaker..lol

[KnixinSix]

Read on Twitter

[snadler]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Hom0Q48uRKDQLS6zIlbkZQ

Meaningless?

[F N 11]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Hom0Q48uRKDQLS6zIlbkZQ

Meaningless?

Not the Jazz news I wanted to see.

[will34]

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=Hom0Q48uRKDQLS6zIlbkZQ

Meaningless?

Not the Jazz news I wanted to see.

Last two days I got tweet alerts from Woj and Shams that started with the Jazz and I had a heart attack just to read some BS. They suck

[KnixinSix]

Read on Twitter

[god shammgod]

I feel like the only reason we are doing this now is because we just want a "star." And we feel burnt by Frank, Knox. But Grimes, Obi, Jericho are not the same. Different.

jesus

[K_ick_God]

Never mind trade everyone

[KnixinSix]

What rhymes with Grimes?

Not ready fo da prime time!

Playing da ship but not sublime.

Missed that shot on a perfect dime.

The only way he gets da trophy is committing a crime.

[whocares1]

Summer league is meaningless but after watching this first half, Grimes is definitely no deal breaker..lol

He is a role player. He doesn’t have a special unique ability like the other role players on our team. He is a 3 and D and his shot isn’t consistent. He was always expendable. He’d be much better in a motion offense tho.